I had a look in the 1977 edition LBB-1. Page 4 has this: "Should a player consider his character so poor as to be beyond help, he should consider joining the accident-prone Scout Corps, with a subconscious view to suicide". With that attitude, who needs a pension?
Why no pension for Scouts???
- Thread starter Lord Iron Wolf
- Start date
I had a look in the 1977 edition LBB-1. Page 4 has this: "Should a player consider his character so poor as to be beyond help, he should consider joining the accident-prone Scout Corps, with a subconscious view to suicide". With that attitude, who needs a pension?
Jane Doe
SOC-5
But on the plus side - those of us who have always had to play solo for one reason or another find being a Scout really handy for the free ship and excuse to just go wandering through the cosmos, with a little trading on the side to pay our way. Until those pesky dice create trouble..... 
Heck, with CT Adventure 0, the Scouts will even pay you to wander around and poke your nose into things, so long as you write up a report for them afterwards!But on the plus side - those of us who have always had to play solo for one reason or another find being a Scout really handy for the free ship and excuse to just go wandering through the cosmos, with a little trading on the side to pay our way. Until those pesky dice create trouble.....
Hmm, my character will be in for a massive windfall if she ever actually makes her way back to somewhere with Scout base or Way station then............
You have to be hired for the job, in that adventure.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
There are also no retirement pensions for any additional character type in Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium. That list does include Sailor (wet Navy), Diplomat, Flyer (member of COACC-Close Orbit and Airspace Control Command), Bureaucrat (i.e. Civil Service), Doctor, and Scientist.
Considering that the Navy, Marines, Army, and Merchants all get a retirement benefit, the lack of one for those listed is a tad odd.
Also, is the retirement benefit listed on page 23 of Book 1 of the LBB per year or per month? If per year, it is more than a little pathetic, considering that it represents 20 to 32 years of service. If per month, then it is a bit more reasonable. I have always taken it to be a per month benefit.
Considering that the Navy, Marines, Army, and Merchants all get a retirement benefit, the lack of one for those listed is a tad odd.
Also, is the retirement benefit listed on page 23 of Book 1 of the LBB per year or per month? If per year, it is more than a little pathetic, considering that it represents 20 to 32 years of service. If per month, then it is a bit more reasonable. I have always taken it to be a per month benefit.
"Retirement grants the individual an annual retirement pay (in addition to any mustering out benefits); rates of retirement pay are shown in the retirement pay table."
(Book 2, p 11, emphasis mine)
It does seem a bit low; maybe this can be explained as late 70's figures. In MT, they upped it to Cr2000 per term served.
[Actually, this is one of the errata: on p 17 it refers to a "table" (obviously a straight copy from Book 2), but in the tables (e.g. p 21) there's no actual table, simply an embedded paragraph entitled RETIREMENT AND PENSIONS.]
I agree it might seem low, but look at the comparisons. The max basic rate (including allowances) for an Australian pension is $873.90/fn, or $22,721.40 annually (USD$17986.37). This is after approximately 45 years (start working at 20, retire at 65), or about 9 "terms". In CT this would deliver Cr 12,000; in MT, Cr 18,000.
If you concede the argument that Cr 1 = USD$3, this is USD$54,000 annually (i.e. triple Oz real-life figures; I'll bet that's also more than in the USA or UK!).
Finally, the real reason for the low pay is the meta-game reason: to give the players a reason (low income) to go adventuring: to seek fame, yes, but also fortune! ;-) ;-)
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
There are a very large number of retired "civil servants" in Illinois drawing over $100,000 per year in pension, most of them after 30 years. Some are drawing over $200,000. One of them is the husband of a good friend of my wife. The husband told his wife to quit working as basically all of her income was going in taxes, due to the tax bracket that they are in. US military retired pay is 75% of your base pay after 30 years of service, 50% after 20 years. That retired pay system has been around since before I was in in 1975.
You might want to check on some of the California pensions for further enlightenment,
I will keep figuring the retired pension in Traveller as a monthly benefit.
You might want to check on some of the California pensions for further enlightenment,
I will keep figuring the retired pension in Traveller as a monthly benefit.
Fair enough.
The thing I didn't mention was superannuation. The experts say if you want to retain your pre-retirement lifestyle, you need 5x your annual income in super. So $100,000/yr means you need a sum of $500,000 on retirement. Then you take it as a lump sum and invest it yourself, or roll it over to some sort of annuity. But I also think they assume you've paid off a house (thus no mortgage. No Free Trader, either...)
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The incomes of civil servant pensions that I was mentioning have nothing to do with individual investments. That is the amount that the State of Illinois is paying the individuals for pensions. In quite a few cases, the pension payout is larger than the individual's salary was averaged out 5 years prior to retirement, as the payment is based on the final 2 years of salary, and the general policy was to drastically increase the individuals salary for the final 2 years, drastically increasing the pension payout. In many cases, the final 2 years of salary was 50% higher than the salary for the pay grade. The practice was called "spiking". The result is a pension higher than the salary received by the individual prior to the final 2 years of working.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Umm what?
Page 4, retirement, standard 5 terms plus.
Page 8, extra note, Barbarians cannot retire. That perforce strongly suggests everyone else does.
Well, there is a reason the states of Illinois and California are heading towards bankruptcy. The Imperium itself not being a representative democracy, is likely immune to the political forces driving those looming disasters. So it seems the minimal amounts are meant to be annual.
Last edited:
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Another justification for no pension- perhaps the Scouts' version of maintaining Reserves is to keep surviving Scouts 'on the hook' and even a measly pension might make too many of them independent instead of hungry for another contract job.
Or, the Scouts are the disposable crazies of space and aren't properly financed.
Or, they don't WANT people who are oriented towards long term safety.
From a game design perspective they get the assured skillx2 rolls, the best LBB1 money table, a good chance at a free ship with minimal costs and a similar chance at +2 INT and EDU. It's a minor negative.
Or, the Scouts are the disposable crazies of space and aren't properly financed.
Or, they don't WANT people who are oriented towards long term safety.
From a game design perspective they get the assured skillx2 rolls, the best LBB1 money table, a good chance at a free ship with minimal costs and a similar chance at +2 INT and EDU. It's a minor negative.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
You seriously think that a person is going to put up with the headaches of being in the Army, Navy, or Marines for at least 20 years for a minimal pension? Interesting viewpoint.
Historically, many Britains and Americans did.
Wages for military only became actually competitive post-2000 in the US.
Looking at 1976 figures (as that's the baseline for most prices in CT)
GS 1: 5,810/yr
GS12: 17,056/yr
GS18: 54,410/yr
E1: 4,492/yr
E7 over 18: 12081.6/yr (Typical retiring enlisted man)
O1: 8,280/yr
O6 over 14: 21,135.6/yr
Military and GS pensions of the era at 50% of average of best 3 years
Median US income 17,315/yr
Average US Income (from SSI Index): 9,226.48/yr
Poverty Line: 5,815/yr
Enlisted men
sub-median whole career.
Below average: E1-E5 (all), E6 under 16, E7 under 10,
Below Poverty Line: E1-E3 (all), E4 under 3, E5 under 2.
Warrants below average at W1 under 2, below median W1-W3, W4 under 22
Officers below average O1 under 3.
Officers Below median O1-O2, O3 under 12, O4 under 10, O5 under 3.
Typical 20 year was 50%... 6,000/yr or so for an enlisted man retiring as an E7 at 20... and this is considerably below the median and average incomes... just barely above the poverty line. And many guys shot for 20 years and retirement.
Traveller's isn't bad.
| Terms | CT 77 & 81 | US 1976 E7 | US 1975 O5 |
| 5 | 4,000 | 5,391.00 | 11,890.80 |
| 6 | 6,000 | 5,828.40 | 12,308.40 |
https://www.infoplease.com/business-finance/poverty-and-income/median-four-person-family-income
https://archive.opm.gov/oca/pre1994/GS1976.asp
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/1978/demo/p60-115.pdf
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html
I don't remember even one person from my Navy days saying he enlisted for the pension. I'm sure there are many who have 15 to just under 20 years in who are tired of it, but stick around for the pension once they've put in that much time. Others are lifers who won't quit until they are forced out.
It helps that the 20-active pensioners get to work while receiving said pension, which starts at retirement.
Guard & Reserve for pension at 65... and a little pocket cash.
The early retirement with benefits, while young enough to still work, was a recruiting tool since the days of the roman legionaries.
For Reference; CT cost of living
I posted this on the Proposed Civil-Service Pay Scale thread as well.
The overhead expenses:
Starvation Level, Bare minimum food 60cr/m, dismal lodging 60cr/m.
120cr/m 1440cr/yr
Subsistence level, Reasonable food 120cr/m, acceptable lodging 180cr/m.
300cr/m 3600cr/yr
Ordinary level, Good food 200cr/m, good lodging 200cr/m.
400cr/m 4800cr/yr
High Living, Excellent food 600cr/m, Excellent accommodations 300cr/m
900cr/m 10800cr/yr
I posted this on the Proposed Civil-Service Pay Scale thread as well.
The overhead expenses:
Starvation Level, Bare minimum food 60cr/m, dismal lodging 60cr/m.
120cr/m 1440cr/yr
Subsistence level, Reasonable food 120cr/m, acceptable lodging 180cr/m.
300cr/m 3600cr/yr
Ordinary level, Good food 200cr/m, good lodging 200cr/m.
400cr/m 4800cr/yr
High Living, Excellent food 600cr/m, Excellent accommodations 300cr/m
900cr/m 10800cr/yr
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Clearly I am well outside of the norm then. I signed up for ROTC to get a scholarship to pay for my college education, and then guarantee me a job for 5 years, courtesy of the scholarship to get myself established. During the 5 years I figured I would decide on making the Army a career or not. If not, my plan was to use the GI Bill to help pay for a Master Degree in History, specialty military, and then on to a doctorate. I did give thought to getting out of the Army in Alaska and staying on the in Anchorage area. I did not expect to be retired as a First Lieutenant for medical disability.
