X-boat tender question

[Enoki]

CT supplement 7 et. al. has the X-boat tender jump capable. Why? The tender sits in a system doing its job. Its not going anywhere. If you needed to place one in a system wouldn't it be more expeditious to either built it locally or simply haul one in on a lift ship that can carry it? Either way, its a one time thing.
I can see some of the variants listed having a jump drive retro-fitted, but as a tender is there really any reason to have a jump drive installed and waste that space on something the ship will never use?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

How about maintenance? All nodes on the network are not guaranteed to have a starport A and high enough TL to service the tender.

You may have to carry damaged x-boats to a starport that can repair them?

 

[Hyphen]

Firsr, some of the answer depends on the Mileau you are using. In MT, tenders are TL 15, so cannot be built locally in most systems, therefore need to jump in. (This can be somewhat offset by taking the approach that only the latest tenders are TL 15 and that others are lower-tech.)

However, even that doesn't alleviate the second, main issue: annual maintenance. The tender will have to go off-station once per year for maintenance - possibly not even in this system - and will have to have a replacement rotated in to maintain the integrity of the Xboat network. I like to think that they may even be rotated between different systems so the Scouts on-board don't get too bored, but that's just me. Maybe instead they rotate some of the crew, unless they request to stay (local family ties, etc.).

The third reason is that they have to be able to transport the Xboats themselves for maintenance. Sure, they can perform this themselves, but I'm pretty sure that large jobs, such as refitting an entire j-drive (for example), would need a yard.

[Edit: wow, Dilbert, ya beat me to it by 1 minute!] ;-)

 

[Whipsnade]

Its not going anywhere.

As the others already explained, it does need to go places more often than you'd think. Along with having to travel for maintenance, tenders may also have to make in-system jumps as simple orbital mechanics shifts the jump masking/shadows situation.

... really any reason to have a jump drive installed and waste that space on something the ship will never use?

It's going to use it a couple times a year at the very least for both in-system and interstellar jumps. Being able to jump away from an enemy is a nice ability too, especially considering the "mails" that could be seized.

The tender's Model H jump drive "only" takes up 45 dTons or 4.5% of the ship's total volume. While that's a nice chunk of storage volume, it's just over one x-boat jump fuel load-out. Given the one-boat-per-day operational tempo of the system and the tender's 150 dTon bunkerage volume, a tender is going to need a visit from a tanker every three days anyways just to keep the x-boats jumping.

While the 45 dTons "wasted" on the jump drive could have been used for a few more staterooms, some cargo, some fuel, or any mixture of the three, that volume doesn't really help the design as much as having an interstellar capability does.

 

[Meteoric Assault]

How about maintenance? All nodes on the network are not guaranteed to have a starport A and high enough TL to service the tender.

You may have to carry damaged x-boats to a starport that can repair them?

This is a very good point and gives credence, ( lol I am listening to CCR right now), to why J drives are needed.

 

[Enoki]

That works right up until you start looking at X-boat routes. These are based on an assumed J4, the X-boat's ability. Many of the systems on them aren't even accessible to a J1 vessel unless it makes multiple jumps.
Next, virtually all X-boat routes within the Imperium stop only at A or B starports so routine maintenance is almost universally available. I would think that the Scout service would make the necessary spares at the appropriate tech level available locally regardless of the local TL, which usually is A+ anyway.

Since the tender can't enter an atmosphere, it would have to be serviced at a high port or yard in space. Easier still, would be to have a support ship with a J2 or 3 capacity that moves along the X-boat route performing periodic maintenance if it is so specialized rather than relying on locals to do it.

All that the tender being TL 15 argues is that when first put in service it could be delivered by a lift ship (it's just 1000 tons itself) to a system that isn't at TL 15 and couldn't manufacture it. The alternative to that would be that the computer, avionics, possibly weapons (again making little sense 98% of the time), and other TL 15 musts are imported while the ship itself is built locally.
What need is there for it to be 100% TL 15?

Also CT supplement 7 pg 46 shows the tender to be TL 10... That is something I would have expect. No need for high tech except the computer, which has to down- and up-load data to the boats.

As for the idea of it being taken or "seized," that seems rather far fetched in most of the systems its being used in. While not universal, many have naval, military, or scout bases in them too. I doubt that some shown as having a route through them are actually stops, like for example, Lleska in the Gushemege (2240) subsector, a red zone with a X starport. I'd think that one is a "flyover" system...
Others would be major ports with lots of space traffic. I doubt that such a system would lack some sort of equivalent of the Coast Guard to come to the rescue. After all, the tender wouldn't be off in some remote corner of the system to begin with.

While a number of obvious stops are amber zones, this is generally because the system is run by a tyrant or three and has law levels well up into the lettered region, not exactly a warm fuzzy to criminals...
I could see design provision for arming them, say in wartime, or the like but not normally having this installed. It would just add cost for no useful return.

Another question...

What sort of ship is used to move data and mail from the tender to the main world of the system?

This would be necessary for stuff like say, diplomatic mail, secure or private mail that the sender / recipient doesn't want transmitted electronically for whatever reason, and for small packages and the like. I'd assume the X-boat system includes something like Fed X or DHL service...

 

[Meteoric Assault]

If I may make a suggestion that may make it easier to come to terms with the tender... the internal bay's can be used as space for fuel bladders giving it greater reach... thus it gives a sense of plausible utility to the concept it was intended.

 

[aramis]

If I may make a suggestion that may make it easier to come to terms with the tender... the internal bay's can be used as space for fuel bladders giving it greater reach... thus it gives a sense of plausible utility to the concept it was intended.

More likely fixed cans that can, when on station, be clamped outside as "reusable drop tanks" for additional fuel bunkerage, adding quite a bit of additional fuel. Makes them into once-a-week from the tanker. Disconnect from inside, connect to the opposite side from the bay. Reverse when preparing to jump.

Doing it this way solves a BUNCH of issues with the tender.

 

[Hyphen]

Dear Folks-

Enoki brought up a bunch of good points:

That works right up until you start looking at X-boat routes.

...A or B starports [mean that] routine maintenance is almost universally available...

[You could have] have a support ship with a J2 or 3 capacity that moves along the X-boat route performing periodic maintenance...

I just wanted to say thanks. I hadn't considered a number of those alternatives and it was refreshing to get a new take on things. I figure you can even combine some of the options: a backwater world gets a TL 10 tender dropped off by a battle rider that was passing through, for instance. Doesn't happen everywhere, but stuff like this allows your Imperium to be varied.

What sort of ship is used to move data and mail from the tender to the main world of the system?

Ah. That's known in the referee trade as "an unsuspecting PC vessel". ;-)

 

[aramis]

@Enoki
Physical mail isn't part of the 3I XBoat system. It can go via radio in system

 

[Vargas]

@Enoki
Physical mail isn't part of the 3I XBoat system. It can go via radio in system

Hmm, I thought mention was made somewhere in CT of shipping small packages. (TTA?)

Supplement 7 states that tenders are used to retrieve misjumped X-boats and haul them to systems where additional boats are needed.

 

[savage]

X-boat tenders need to retrieve, deploy X-boats. Simple as that.

I use the tender design to fulfill other missions IMTU.

 

[Vargas]

It can be used as a platform to launch S-3 missions from . . .

 

[aramis]

Hmm, I thought mention was made somewhere in CT of shipping small packages. (TTA?)

Supplement 7 states that tenders are used to retrieve misjumped X-boats and haul them to systems where additional boats are needed.

Nope. It's physical mail that are hauled by liners and routed small freighters. X-boats have ZERO cargo capacity.

 

[Enoki]

Nope. It's physical mail that are hauled by liners and routed small freighters. X-boats have ZERO cargo capacity.

The CT Supplement 7 shows them with 2 staterooms and a need for 1 crew. A passenger, or two, is possible. Seems to me that an enterprising operator would be in the "small package" business...

 

[Hyphen]

My understanding is that physical mail is carried by subbies (subsidised merchants) contracted on standard mail routes. Plus, if you can afford it, packet ships (i.e. private couriers).

And, as I said earlier, by the PC's own starship. ;-)

In no way does this preclude the possibilities of corruption, fighting over mail contracts that would make the Teamsters look like pussies, and of all the intrigues, vagaries, diversions and red herrings inherent in the euphemistically-labelled "small package" trade.

In fact, it enhances it. Meaning more opportunities for role-playing!

 

[Jame]

My understanding is that physical mail is carried by subbies (subsidised merchants) contracted on standard mail routes. Plus, if you can afford it, packet ships (i.e. private couriers).

And, as I said earlier, by the PC's own starship. ;-)

In no way does this preclude the possibilities of corruption, fighting over mail contracts that would make the Teamsters look like pussies, and of all the intrigues, vagaries, diversions and red herrings inherent in the euphemistically-labelled "small package" trade.

In fact, it enhances it. Meaning more opportunities for role-playing!

And many other starships that can get a mail contract (the method is up to the GM).

 

[Whipsnade]

What sort of ship is used to move data and mail from the tender to the main world of the system?

The "mail" is almost always electronic in nature, so radios and masers "move" it between tender - main world and tender - boat.

This would be necessary for stuff like say, diplomatic mail, secure or private mail that the sender / recipient doesn't want transmitted electronically for whatever reason, and for small packages and the like. I'd assume the X-boat system includes something like Fed X or DHL service...

Your assumption is somewhat correct. S:9, page 10:

The ship has two staterooms; one is necessary for the single crew member, while the other can carry a passenger. More often, the pilot uses the second room for additional living space. There is a one ton cargo bay which is occasionally used to carry vital cargo such as vaccines or sophisticated repair parts

The system does carry both passengers and cargo, but only when it's vital. It isn't an "every jump" situation however. FedEx and DHL style services are handled by ships with mail contracts.

We also need to remember that an x-boat station isn't "just" a tender and a few 'boats. There has to be some kind of tanker capacity because the tender can only refuel a few days worth of 'boats on it's own. There also must be dedicated small craft shuttling between the tender and main world handling stores, personnel, physical mails, and vital cargo. (With a 'boat arriving once a day and the 3Kkm/parsec accuracy of jump, the tender can easily "chase" down arriving boats.)

 

[Enoki]

The "mail" is almost always electronic in nature, so radios and masers "move" it between tender - main world and tender - boat.

Which I'm sure is as secure as a certain someone's e-mail server... o: Aller funkwerker ist landestverat! That is all radio traffic is treason. I doubt that businesses and politicians would trust the system to transmit their sensitive data anywhere.
I could easily see special X-boats that have trusted crews (ie., security aboard) being used for this purpose. Or, military operated ones with the same sort of thing going on for classified data. Good scenario there. Robbing the secure X-boat delivery because someone wants the data its carrying...

The system does carry both passengers and cargo, but only when it's vital. It isn't an "every jump" situation however. FedEx and DHL style services are handled by ships with mail contracts.

I'd think most actually do even if it amounts to just a few kilos in weight simply because there is going to be a constant demand whether it is a critical part or information.

We also need to remember that an x-boat station isn't "just" a tender and a few 'boats. There has to be some kind of tanker capacity because the tender can only refuel a few days worth of 'boats on it's own. There also must be dedicated small craft shuttling between the tender and main world handling stores, personnel, physical mails, and vital cargo. (With a 'boat arriving once a day and the 3Kkm/parsec accuracy of jump, the tender can easily "chase" down arriving boats.)

I'd think that would be the norm. Several tenders in the system that "nest" at a much larger ship that can refuel and service them along with provide things like recreation and food and water to the tender. It might just be an orbital rather than a ship.
To make it less costly to operate it could be a "truck stop" in space. That is it has a commercial / public section to accommodate ships and such, and a secure section that handles the X-boat tenders and boats. Another scenario opportunity...?

 

[savage]

I think, if a Duke wants the X-Boat system to deliver a package, they'll deliver a package.

:rofl: