Your biggest waste of money?
- Thread starter Border Reiver
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Then perhaps it would have been better to wait until D20 Modern was released?
Either way, my opinion still stands. I found T20 to be a poor fit of Classic Traveller to the d20 system (as presented in D&D 3rd Edition) - I felt it was not unlike attempting to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Either way, my opinion still stands. I found T20 to be a poor fit of Classic Traveller to the d20 system (as presented in D&D 3rd Edition) - I felt it was not unlike attempting to fit a square peg into a round hole.
RandyT0001
SOC-13
To my previous post add:
Mongoose Traveller
I bought the Core book, Mercenary, High Guard and Spinward Marches books. The only book of those listed worth the price was Spinward Marches and that's because it was written by someone from outside the normal Mongoose team who knew about the background and history of the material he was writing (And the fact that that author wrote it is the only reason I bought it after the first three purchases, I was confident that he would do a good job.). The core book was not up to standards it lacked on several points but I was willing to see if Mongoose would improve. They utterly failed in the next book, Mercenary. Mercenary (IMO) was written by someone that didn't have a clue as to the subject matter and didn't even do some very basic research into it. After much feedback and discussions on various forums about the shortcomings of Mercenary ending with a statement from Mongoose that they would meet expectations with the next book I decide to give Mongoose one more chance and bought High Guard. :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: Just a little better than Mercenary wasn't enough of an improvement to me. Except for Spinward Marches I haven't bought any more Mongoose Traveller though I will ask questions on various forums about some of their latest releases so I can compare it to previous Mongoose statements as to what they are doing. As far as I can tell they are not really improving and I'll be saving my money for other products.
Mongoose Traveller
I bought the Core book, Mercenary, High Guard and Spinward Marches books. The only book of those listed worth the price was Spinward Marches and that's because it was written by someone from outside the normal Mongoose team who knew about the background and history of the material he was writing (And the fact that that author wrote it is the only reason I bought it after the first three purchases, I was confident that he would do a good job.). The core book was not up to standards it lacked on several points but I was willing to see if Mongoose would improve. They utterly failed in the next book, Mercenary. Mercenary (IMO) was written by someone that didn't have a clue as to the subject matter and didn't even do some very basic research into it. After much feedback and discussions on various forums about the shortcomings of Mercenary ending with a statement from Mongoose that they would meet expectations with the next book I decide to give Mongoose one more chance and bought High Guard. :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: Just a little better than Mercenary wasn't enough of an improvement to me. Except for Spinward Marches I haven't bought any more Mongoose Traveller though I will ask questions on various forums about some of their latest releases so I can compare it to previous Mongoose statements as to what they are doing. As far as I can tell they are not really improving and I'll be saving my money for other products.
Worst: T4 Emperor's Arsenal & Vehicles (tie), followed by the T4 main book. At least I bought the rest on clearance.
beowulf2044
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Everything with the word 'Mega' as part of the title.
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I am also bemused by complaints against Mongoose Mercenary. Neither Military experience nor background are essential for writing a roleplaying game, even a supplement aimed at combat. I do not recall games like Battletech being written by people with extensive military knowledge for example.
Classic Traveller may have been aimed at (or adopted by) ex-military people but Mongoose Traveller is not, and I would guess that the vast majority of people who enjoy the latter simply do not care at all about military minutiae.
Classic Traveller may have been aimed at (or adopted by) ex-military people but Mongoose Traveller is not, and I would guess that the vast majority of people who enjoy the latter simply do not care at all about military minutiae.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Hmm, looks like I missed this first time around, maybe it had already run its course before I joined...
Anyway, I've found all the Traveller material I've bought was useful in some way, Mongoose no more or less than any other, but perhaps the least useful was the TNE core book. IMO it was bloated with detail for detail's sake and full of tables, where I greatly prefer the gearhead freedom of formulae.
Best buy for me would have to be the original boxed set. Even now, three decades on, I think they are still the best value for money I've ever spent (on anything - Traveller or no) in terms of the countless hours of pleasure and inspiration they've brought me.
Choosing to buy those little black books has probably had more effect on my life than my choice of career. (That's got to qualify me for Nerd of the Year. Or is that Sad B*****d of the Century?
)
Anyway, I've found all the Traveller material I've bought was useful in some way, Mongoose no more or less than any other, but perhaps the least useful was the TNE core book. IMO it was bloated with detail for detail's sake and full of tables, where I greatly prefer the gearhead freedom of formulae.
Best buy for me would have to be the original boxed set. Even now, three decades on, I think they are still the best value for money I've ever spent (on anything - Traveller or no) in terms of the countless hours of pleasure and inspiration they've brought me.
Choosing to buy those little black books has probably had more effect on my life than my choice of career. (That's got to qualify me for Nerd of the Year. Or is that Sad B*****d of the Century?
)Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
I'm not ex-military or an armchair expert - so perhaps even more so, I rely on the rules to provide me with a scenario that won't expose me to criticism and game-destroying arguments from a player who is.
I haven't bought Mercenary, or Battletech, so I can't comment on specifics and I'm going from what I've read on sites such as this one, but I think any book that has rules for ranged weapons should ensure that the values they put in are reasonable. It's about suspension of disbelief.
Nobody knows what the range and effect of a fusion gun are, so the values you enter for those are less important (provided they don't contradict canon) but anyone can look up the values for, say, an AK47, and if you're publishing a set of rules that don't produce 'believable' results (ie within a reasonable margin of error) when compared with the real world, then your rules are crap - it's that simple.
It's the equivalent of creating a set of rules that specify human walking pace as 20 mph, and the top speed of a cheetah as 28mph. If anyone did that, they'd deserve all the criticism (and returned books) they got.
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
Because what was in the playtest and what was presented by another company were two very different creatures. If QLI had published 1248 it may not have lived up to expectations but the cruddy half a book I did receive is doing nothing but using up shelf space. And though I've tried to like T20, it is a poor fit but it has its good points too so was never a waste of money for me.
As far as Battletech not being written by those with military experience. Well I'm afraid it was, sorry. Unless being a member of the US Navy Reserve is no longer considered military experience.
And bemused by Mongoose Mercenary? Most commentators were bemused that they got away with releasing it. Even the playtesters allegedly flagged up the equipment section but were ignored.
As far as Battletech not being written by those with military experience. Well I'm afraid it was, sorry. Unless being a member of the US Navy Reserve is no longer considered military experience.
And bemused by Mongoose Mercenary? Most commentators were bemused that they got away with releasing it. Even the playtesters allegedly flagged up the equipment section but were ignored.
It does help to have a grasp of what you're writing about however and I get the impression that even that was lacking from Mercenary.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
I got into RPG's from the old SPI and Avalon Hill games. My favorite game is still SPI's "Highway to the Reich" which is 15 ft long and has thousands of counters. So I am an old pro at being able to lay out and maintain game maps and couter stacks over weeks of time.
As for FFW, I have asked a few times if anyone knows about a web implimentation and there have been comments but I do not have the timeto look at the tool kits mentioned. I am too busy in real life doing things like building a trebuchet for my SCA group >
Marc
FFW....could never find players willing to spend the time to play the whole thing through. Sold it to a comic store after holding out for about 5-6 years in vain.
Gamer span of attention just isn't what it used to be back in the early days. Or maybe it was just overkill - Imperium was just about right timewise, but FFW seemed to scare away opponents.
A close second worst would be AHL - Never used it, never even punched the counters.
Gamer span of attention just isn't what it used to be back in the early days. Or maybe it was just overkill - Imperium was just about right timewise, but FFW seemed to scare away opponents.
A close second worst would be AHL - Never used it, never even punched the counters.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
Actually, I have played it through a number of times in F2F games and it is a lot of fun though can be very frustrating when you find a key fleet locked into a set of orders due to a low rated Admiral >
I believe that it is attention span disorder though that might be on my part. I enjoyed games that my friends and I would take weeks to play. So obviously there is something wrong with me
Marc
It always seemed odd to me that the same players who would happily spend 5-6 hours plus playing Traveller couldn't sit still for the same amount of time or less for more than one or two sessions of FFW.
But if that game had been out earlier when I was playing with wargaming friends it would have been a different story: we used to spend all day playing SPI's Air War where a 20 minute dogfight could take a couple hours to play out!
I liked FFW, but it just got harder to find players for games like that as we got older (read: got lives) and had to prioritize our gaming night.
hmmmm....play Traveller, or play a wargame? Now who would vote for a wargame pushing around paper squares when they can be blasting bug-eyed monsters and saving the scientist's daughter from it's unholy intentions? Or at least beating Vargr silly with rolled up newspapers and wet towels?
But if that game had been out earlier when I was playing with wargaming friends it would have been a different story: we used to spend all day playing SPI's Air War where a 20 minute dogfight could take a couple hours to play out!
I liked FFW, but it just got harder to find players for games like that as we got older (read: got lives) and had to prioritize our gaming night.
hmmmm....play Traveller, or play a wargame? Now who would vote for a wargame pushing around paper squares when they can be blasting bug-eyed monsters and saving the scientist's daughter from it's unholy intentions? Or at least beating Vargr silly with rolled up newspapers and wet towels?
WarriorKnight
SOC-12
My biggest waste:JG's Starship Deckplans.I cannot stand them.They make the FASA deckplans look like works of the great renaissance masters.Really the only JG product I liked was The Darthon Queen.1st Traveller game I ever played in.I've run it a half dozen times over the years for different groups.
The 1st time the gm used all 3 plots(the terrorist strike,the mutany,& the monster) at the same time.Still remember my friend Brent finding the last bomb hidden in an upper deck fresher;as he reached in to disarm it it went off.Everytime Traveller comes up we start talking about that game & Brent still mutters about "dieing in the shitter".
The 1st time the gm used all 3 plots(the terrorist strike,the mutany,& the monster) at the same time.Still remember my friend Brent finding the last bomb hidden in an upper deck fresher;as he reached in to disarm it it went off.Everytime Traveller comes up we start talking about that game & Brent still mutters about "dieing in the shitter".
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PathfinderAP
SOC-12
Maybe it would be quicker to just change his name to "John"
Much of T4 en total. Beyond that I can't say I regret buying a single CT book. I actually liked the Tarsus module, and never bought any of the miniatures in the 80s. Don't believe I bought Sup12 either. If I had to really pin my finger on one product, it might be the AHL boxed game/supplement. As much as people like the Frontier Cruiser, its deckplans and everything else, I preferred Snapshot because the rules and scenarios were better. It was a better game than AHL--a more detailed AP system for my money.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
More Thread Necromancy.
The worst Traveller Products that I bought were Survival Margin and Traveller: The New Era. I think that they are still in my basement somewhere, and if I find them, off to GamesPlus they go to recover some of the money spent. Not a fan of MegaTraveller either, but every once in a while, the books are sort of useful. I may sell those as well at GamesPlus. No, I do not do eBay.
Best Traveller Products: Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society No. 2. Marc's article on Victoria/Lanth sold me on the game. Then the 1977 Little Black Books along with the 1981 edition. The two best adventures are Research Station Gamma and Twilight's Peak, both written by Marc. The best short adventure is Annic Nova, also written by Marc. The Classic CD is definitely worth the money.
I liked Tarsus, and managed to swap some military date to Marc at a convention to get the missing pieces of my boxed game. COACC is interesting as I like the earlier technology periods. and rather than try to design aircraft, I adapt existing ones into it. I do like The Traveller Book as having provisions for the Wet Navy, and Supplement 4 for the added skills, especially Survival.
The worst Traveller Products that I bought were Survival Margin and Traveller: The New Era. I think that they are still in my basement somewhere, and if I find them, off to GamesPlus they go to recover some of the money spent. Not a fan of MegaTraveller either, but every once in a while, the books are sort of useful. I may sell those as well at GamesPlus. No, I do not do eBay.
Best Traveller Products: Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society No. 2. Marc's article on Victoria/Lanth sold me on the game. Then the 1977 Little Black Books along with the 1981 edition. The two best adventures are Research Station Gamma and Twilight's Peak, both written by Marc. The best short adventure is Annic Nova, also written by Marc. The Classic CD is definitely worth the money.
I liked Tarsus, and managed to swap some military date to Marc at a convention to get the missing pieces of my boxed game. COACC is interesting as I like the earlier technology periods. and rather than try to design aircraft, I adapt existing ones into it. I do like The Traveller Book as having provisions for the Wet Navy, and Supplement 4 for the added skills, especially Survival.
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AtlanticFriend
SOC-12
I've never thought of any Traveller/2300 product a waste of money, but T4 Pocket Empires I could have done without, as I immediately realized I would never be able to use it. But well, I'm a Traveller Packrat, so I didn't shed that many tears for my spent Euros... 
