zhodani 1000 dton missile frigate
- Thread starter flykiller
- Start date
Love it, Fly.
Having the working and living spaces physically segregated by caste is a great touch. The nobles and intendants never even have to see or speak in person to the proles.
The communal living arrangements for the proles is delightfully odd too. It suggests some rather different societies and behaviors in the Consulate.
The whole design is both familiar and strange, just as any good "alien human" design should be.
One tweeny-weeny quibble. No small craft? Not a single launch or g-carrier?
Having the working and living spaces physically segregated by caste is a great touch. The nobles and intendants never even have to see or speak in person to the proles.
The communal living arrangements for the proles is delightfully odd too. It suggests some rather different societies and behaviors in the Consulate.
The whole design is both familiar and strange, just as any good "alien human" design should be.
One tweeny-weeny quibble. No small craft? Not a single launch or g-carrier?
that's what I hope to hear. you're welcome. enjoy, and good gaming.
well the "interrogation" bay is right next to the "health bay", they would kind of view them as being two sides of the same person - mental/physical - so they'd see the proles on occasion at least.
I tried to envision a mentally open society, and a communal living arrangement just seemed logical. but more than that I envisioned them all as being paired, perhaps even cloned into pairs, both the proles and intendants and nobles, and living and working as pairs including family pairs. what better way to buttress stability ....
no room. suppose I could force it, but then the boat wouldn't have the same character. in any case it's not meant to be a long-endurance patrol boat with a ground presence or secondary function, just a fleet task force missile boat that otherwise is portside.
but if anyone wants to put in a launch the graphic is done in mspaint and anyone can make any changes they like.
Ahhh... understood. It's never meant to be "alone". It always works out of proper bases or is deployed in squadrons/flotillas complete with various auxiliaries, tenders, etc.
I've never really mulled over widespread cloning vis a vis the Zhodani. Then again, I've never really mulled over widespread cloning vis a vis any Major Race in the OTU. Producing more tractable proles would mean the Thought Police would have less work on the hands.
Have you read Cherryh's Cyteen series? Suddenly I'm reminded of the azi...
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Which is rather out of character for the way the Zhodani organize both their military AND their society.
As a ship on the Core Road, or developed by the survivor states post Wave, it hits that variant/isolated chord reasonably well. It does not fit my view of the Consulate, though.
Classic Zhodani ships also follow some exterior architectural patterns, one of which is that they are not vertically symmetrical. They tend toward being wider across the lower decks and to the rear.
Last edited:
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
At the workplace, segregation is by mental state and distance.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Compared to Imperial space? Yes.
Compared to Aslan or K'kree space? Probably no. The Zhodani are confidently mono-cultural, while these two are militantly mono-cultural.
The Zhodani had a 95% die off in recorded history and were not hugely diverse to begin with. They did not have a Long Night to engender isolation-based cultural drift. They do not tolerate isolationists or get-away colonies. There is nothing in their materials to suggest that Zhodani cultural variations are more than recent environmental adaptions and a Practical/Mystical spectrum.
Cutting off contact between Nobles and Proles is a step toward unhealthy society. Any Noble group caught doing such things would be held under suspicion, and any Proles found to be avoiding Nobles will be handed to the Thought Police for isolationist deviancy, potential depression or other disorder, and possible investigation for a relation to any crimes of passion recently committed.
Why? We don't share our living quarters with our tools and beasts of burden, would should the Zho nobility do the same with their proles?
Proles are tools and domesticated animals. Nothing more. They're regularly channeled, chopped, and changed to suit the needs of their masters. What's more, they're regularly conditioning to perceive that activity as both proper and for their own good.
When your mind is open to me to read and edit as I see fit and as my needs require, condescending and patronizing won't even begin to describe my attitude towards you.
Proles are to Zho nobles as "child" races are to Hivers, except the Zho nobles have more actual control.
Fly's design has the noble and intendant officers living, eating, working, and socializing apart from the prole crew, something which isn't all too different from historic and current practices.
There's a link to a podcast of Mr. Miller discussing Traveller at a recent con. In it, he discusses the Zhodani a few times. You need to listen to what he says about the Zhodani and what he suggests his listeners think about.
There's a chapter in AotI in which Bland visits Stiatl, a Consulate world. You need to read the words Mr. Miller puts in Lord Shatlijiatlas' mouth and think about what he's saying.
This isn't about being "pro" this, "anti" that, or "choosing sides" in some fictional setting. This is about that setting's creator making observations about one aspect of his work and asking us to think about the implications.
to put it mildly.
other discussion here.
I didn't envision them as being "cut off" from one another, and really, they're not.
anyway, I thought the ship would be useful in a game. perhaps you have a rebel zho faction that might make use of it - the zho version of the popular version of the supremacist solomani?
Agreed.
I winced and then sadly shook my head when I read some of the naive assertions in that thread, especially the several claims that the Zhos only meddle with the minds of others for the betterment of society as a whole and not for personal gain.
Like any other sophont, the Zhos are more rationalizing than rational. They do what they believe to be right, what they tell themselves is right, and what their psionically imposed consensus mandates is right. That's not precisely the same thing as actually being right, however.
The Zhos don't have a monopoly on the truth and, while Zho precogs exist, the consequences of decisions and the future they create is as murky to them as it is to us.
When opinions and beliefs are manufactured and maintained in individuals at the neurological level, everyone is going to agree that everything is for the best whether it actually is or not. Even questioning that consensus means you're ill and need to be fixed for your own good because you'll be happier.
In AtoI, low IQ, mentally challenged, and otherwise "neurodivergent" individuals who also have also have high psionic strength ratings pose a dilemma for the Consulate. Similar low psi individuals are slotted into various busy work positions and then adjusted to be happy. High psi individuals are trained - because that's what the Consulate always does - but such individuals are no longer going to be happy simply measuring rainfall. What do to?
One solution is what Lord Shatlijiatlas explicitly describes as a group home. They're fitted with wafer jacks and then spend their lives in coordinated mass dances attempting to change reality.
It's better than being locked in an attic and crocheting potholders I guess.
Of course, that high psi person with trisomy 21 needn't be trained at all and, if their powers somehow begin to "leak", they could be treated with psi-blockers. Everyone must be trained, however, because that's what is always best for society...
... even if it means the individual will end up a marionette with a wafer jack waltzing away on a backwater world for the rest of their life.
got to thinking about this over lunch. I and whipsnade are exhibiting individualist bias - we view prole manipulation as an event, and then the proles are sent on their way. but what if the manipulation is an ongoing status? what if the nobility and the proles are in fact merged in some manner, into multiple single actor with a noble as the senior member of each merger? then they would in fact all live together, mentally and physically, with the noble as the mental patriarch of the ... house, family, entity.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Roman slaves slept in family quarters, on the floor.
Handy that- no separate quarters to maintain, indicated complete confidence and control, and available right there for any instant orders or needs.
http://www.trevorbloom.com/2010/12/what-was-it-like-to-be-a-slave-in-ancient-rome/
Zhodani concepts of societal/spatial distance may not be like ours, at all.
Not to say proles are slaves, but they may be thought of more as reprogrammable robots that have to be cared for and culled for Intendants.
Hmm, there is an angle- do the Zhos have a program for determining optimized breeding for psionics? Might they manipulate the love lives and child bearing of the proles to generate a new generation of nobility and that is the underlying source of their highly overbearing parental interest?
Handy that- no separate quarters to maintain, indicated complete confidence and control, and available right there for any instant orders or needs.
http://www.trevorbloom.com/2010/12/what-was-it-like-to-be-a-slave-in-ancient-rome/
Zhodani concepts of societal/spatial distance may not be like ours, at all.
Not to say proles are slaves, but they may be thought of more as reprogrammable robots that have to be cared for and culled for Intendants.
Hmm, there is an angle- do the Zhos have a program for determining optimized breeding for psionics? Might they manipulate the love lives and child bearing of the proles to generate a new generation of nobility and that is the underlying source of their highly overbearing parental interest?
Just curious, how many sophonts do you know, aside from Solomani humans, to suport this?
Well, the Vendari at Proxima Centauri. They told me so.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I disagree with the Imperial propaganda version of Zhodani treatment of proles.
Not out of naivety, but rather from a lot of thought over the years about what we are actually told in the sources.
Not out of naivety, but rather from a lot of thought over the years about what we are actually told in the sources.
Give me a little credit, okay?
How many manuals for the game have "referee's eyes only" and other similar sections? How many time has what we've been told differed from what we've been shown? What does Mr. Miller specifically ask his listeners to think about at least twice in that podcast?
Wheels within wheels has been a Traveller motif from the first.
Nice ship layout. I particularly like the multi-level jump drive area. I'm not up on the latest design books, does the double hull provide any advantages in game play? It seems to eat up a lot of real estate.
My teeny-weenie quibble: I'd take the two central vertical access ladders and turn them so they emptied into the central corridor. Generally you want your circulation paths tied together, as opposed to say exiting into the laundry room or storage spaces. (Unless this is a Zhodani thing - Whipsnade's comments remind me that I really need to go back and re-read my Zhodani books.)
Great job. Thanks for sharing!
My teeny-weenie quibble: I'd take the two central vertical access ladders and turn them so they emptied into the central corridor. Generally you want your circulation paths tied together, as opposed to say exiting into the laundry room or storage spaces. (Unless this is a Zhodani thing - Whipsnade's comments remind me that I really need to go back and re-read my Zhodani books.)
Great job. Thanks for sharing!
