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gloriousbattle
Guest
Probably the best move when possible. A pirate who loses his ship -even if he survives- is just another pockpocket looking for a berth.
Probably the best move when possible. A pirate who loses his ship -even if he survives- is just another pockpocket looking for a berth.
Heck, depending how Pirates are able to fence goods, repair & resupply IYTU, a few lucky hits can add up to failure. Attacking up front with a main ship's a really, really expensive way to find out if the opposition's armed or not. Don't go playing an ace, if you think a deuce might win...
ON the other hand, I've been messing around with ideas in MTU, and wondering: what if your Imperium, or whatever Interstellar Government you've got, really only consists of those worlds that are the fullest participants in the interstellar community - as indicated by the presence of class A and B starports, TAS offices, and so on? What if that world with the C-port a parsec away isn't really one of us, and is considered a miserable Barbarian backwater?
The I.G.'s Navy might keep the fleet concentrated on known threats and on static protection of the homeworlds, while loosely patrolling the Barbarian worlds to make sure nobody's becoming a real threat... and making sure that the devious Free Traders aren't delivering high tech goods to the Barbarians. The Scouts might show up to see which of the Barbarians might be getting civilized enough to be coaxed into the I.G.... and those corsairs may well be the province of perfectly respectable Imperial Citizens engaged in the reduction of the Barbarian, for fun and profit. I.G. Merchants operating out in the boonies might be considered fair game - for aren't they supplying comfort to the Barbarian, for profit, raising the threat to the I.G.?
Point being, a TU like this, corsairs - no matter how silly - could be built legitimately just about anywhere.
Sort of an H. B. Piper thing going on there.
The I.G.'s Navy might keep the fleet concentrated on known threats and on static protection of the homeworlds, while loosely patrolling the Barbarian worlds to make sure nobody's becoming a real threat... and making sure that the devious Free Traders aren't delivering high tech goods to the Barbarians. The Scouts might show up to see which of the Barbarians might be getting civilized enough to be coaxed into the I.G.... and those corsairs may well be the province of perfectly respectable Imperial Citizens engaged in the reduction of the Barbarian, for fun and profit. I.G. Merchants operating out in the boonies might be considered fair game - for aren't they supplying comfort to the Barbarian, for profit, raising the threat to the I.G.?
Point being, a TU like this, corsairs - no matter how silly - could be built legitimately just about anywhere.
Sort of an H. B. Piper thing going on there.
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gloriousbattle
Guest
Or, in a grimmer sense, Asimov's Foundation universe.
That works for me, too.
IMTU Corsairs are used by the 3I for asymetrical warfare against the neighbours. Sending a dozen cheap (expendible - shhhh, don't tell the crew...) 400tn Corsairs into a Solomani sub-sector backed up with a Cruiser, is a great way of disrupting a sub-sectors economy on the cheap and/or forcing the enemy to withdraw several sizeable fighting ships (Cruiser or Battle cruiser plus) from the front line. Either way the Corsairs provide huge benefit in comparison to their cost.
To answer where do they come from and why are they a standard design, my answer is that they are mass produced at the start of any interstellar war asap. Then crewed by "adventurous" types and sent Corsairing in enemy territory for no pay, but keep all the loot and the Corsair, subject to being called up again.
Between wars, existing Corsairs will get rarer as they suffer from misuse doing contract anti-piracy work (or piracy) or are sold off by owners struggling to make them profitable without risking combat.
A new war starts up, all surviving Corsairs are serviced and upgunned by the Navy free of charge and they are sent back into the Corsairing business as the first wave. Meantime the second wave is being constructed.
A nasty business, very effective and the only effective strategic counter for the opposition is to engage in the same asymetric warfare. This way both sides are evenly disadvantaged...
To answer where do they come from and why are they a standard design, my answer is that they are mass produced at the start of any interstellar war asap. Then crewed by "adventurous" types and sent Corsairing in enemy territory for no pay, but keep all the loot and the Corsair, subject to being called up again.
Between wars, existing Corsairs will get rarer as they suffer from misuse doing contract anti-piracy work (or piracy) or are sold off by owners struggling to make them profitable without risking combat.
A new war starts up, all surviving Corsairs are serviced and upgunned by the Navy free of charge and they are sent back into the Corsairing business as the first wave. Meantime the second wave is being constructed.
A nasty business, very effective and the only effective strategic counter for the opposition is to engage in the same asymetric warfare. This way both sides are evenly disadvantaged...
That's interesting, but aren't Corsairs a Vargr design? Did your version of the 3I take the blueprints and ship them rimward to the yards near the Sol sphere on influence?
lol, you don't think that Vargr developed the tech themselves! "Standard" design refers to Imperial standard blueprints available throughout the Imperium. Freely available, Vargr no doubt have bought/stole/borrowed the plans centuries ago and adapted it for their own use creating plenty of varients.
I used the Sol boarder as an example, read Zhodani, Hiver, K'Kree, Aslan, etc.
FWIW a retiring Corsair could do worse than selling his ship to Vargr interests.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Then there's that. Out of al the huge populations of people in all the cultures it factors in that so many are going to be "pirates" of a sort, and so in each species or branch, a "corsair" type ship is in the offer for Pirate Characters from those governments. Zho, Aslan, K'Kree, Solomani, Independent, Imperial, Hiver, Vargr Pirates of one form or another all have a niche. Crime if done right can pay, but its a fight.
Well, the other reason I was curious is that for a single character travelling across the Imperium, that is a character who never leaves a ship, and jumps from one system to the next non stop, it would take them just over two years to get from Sol to the Spinward Marches.
Shuffling fleets from the Extents to the frontier with the confederation seems like an awfully large and extraneous undertaking.
Just my take.
Yep, anybody whom suggested building 400tn Corsairs on the Solomani Border and shipping them to the Zhodani boarder obviously has no grasp of the distances involved, nor that one could be built in less time on site.
But you just said one of your nobles builds/captures them on the border with the extents and ships them "south" (mapwise) to the Sol frontier... or did I misunderstand?
Not sure how you got that idea. I used the Solomani border as a bit of colour and an example of where corsairing happens. I pointed out a standard design is by nature Imperium wide, the ships can be built anywhere. I also offered some reasons why Vargr have similar styled ships (ie: they begged. bought or borrowed the plans and tech from a local Imperial shipyard then copied and adapted them.)
In my view Corsairs will be fairly common, especially in the peace that follows a war. Merchant routes need extra escorts in these times when the Imperial Navy is still licking its wounds and regrouping. There could easily be five to ten years of relative lawlessness in the star lanes before authorities get back thier hold.
Opposition for escorting Corsairs will include;
- Deserters with Patrol Cruisers, Close Escorts, Scouts and armed Merchants. Fighting for food, loot and spare parts.
- Enemy elements up to Destroyer size fighting their way back home after extensive battle repairs on some Imperial backwater.
- Profiteers, looking to capitilize on the relative chaos, robbing Merchants of thier ships boats (worth millions each)
- PTSD victims gone over the top, creating havoc because they can. Supported by a third party (Noble, system, Megacorp, etc)
- MegaCorps, looking to gain commercial advantage in a particular system or cluster
- Systems wavering in loyaty to the Imperium, intercepting merchant traffic passing through thier system.
- Devastated planetary populations needing to capture jump capable craft. Can think of many reasons for this.
- Belters without a trade (no more Ore ships coming) wanting to earn credits.
- Other Corsairs looking for a fast credit...
So where is the Fleet? It'll be refitting and repairing as fast as possible in order to be ready for the next conflict. Those assetts that are operational will be either patrolling the borders (all borders not just the recent conflict, in case other empires have a go whilst the 3I is refitting) or held at Naval bases ready to defend the Imperium and buy time for the fleet to build back up to full strength.
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Sure, a situation like that calls for light, fast, armed ships to patrol trade routes - but I don't see the S4-style Corsair fitting that role very well. Why would it need the big "I'm-a-eat-you-up" bay? The T's a better fit: it's faster, better armed, more versatile, can be built at tech 10 (LBB2, anyhow, I forget about HG) and isn't significantly more expensive to build. That, and they're probably not really in much demand for front-line duty, since they'll stop a battlecruiser for about as long as a Scout/Courier will.
Though really, even if your merchant fleet is a bunch of liners jumping 3 parsecs at a time, your "escorts" don't need to keep up with them. After all, you don't need to protect them in jumpspace! You keep your "escorts" on station along your trade routes, available to shepherd the merchies as they come in. An economical ship for this role doesn't need a powerful jump drive, or really, any jump drive at all. If you're just worried about predation from other small starships, then you can build something on a standard 400 ton hull that'll be cheaper than a P, hit harder, and furthermore, won't be silly.
In a lot of ways you are abosolutely correct, but... You will struggle to find Privateers settling for a ship with limited loot hauling capabilities and the Corsair design, like all designs, is a compromise.
It also has to be remembered it ideally becomes redundent in peacetime, excepting you now have a bunch of them looking for hopefully honest work. Give a Privateer a type T and their options are limited, not to mention a certain % will just keep on looting after the conflict anyway. Much better to keep the Type T Patrol Cruiser in Navy hands for chasing down the renegade Corsairs.
Patrol Cruisers in both war & peace act primarily as trip wire forces. Their role when faced with virtually any same size or larger En Naval vessel is not to fight, but to report that the Imperium is under attack giving details of what with and where. Without intel Admirals cannot deploy appropriate responses, intel is a far greater priority to the Navy than futile heroics. The rest of the time pirates and smugglers are far game for type T's but they shouldn't take on much else.
Again you are right, but consider the scenario I put forward. A major conflict has just ended, most if not all shipyards will be put to use bringing the Fleet, system defences and commerce back up to strength. This will take years. Its during this time when the fleet has higher priorities and there are still numerous renegade/pirate threats around that you need more civilian contract escorts. Nicely co-inciding with lots of Corsairs looking for honest work and no doubt trading/salvage opportunities.
Any attempt to build 400tn monitors for a need forcasted to last perhaps only a decade, will be put off in favour of higher priority defence rebuilds. Local SBD squadrons tho' will start to fill the niche as strength rebuilds.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
One of the things I like with GT is their explanation of the "Corsair":
It was designed as a salvage/rescue ship and some are misused as pirat craf
Works better in systems where accelleration is mass-based instead of volume based since it explains the powerful M-Drives. Those are needed to still make a decend speed loaded.
In asymetrical warfare a purpose build raider (unless it's a cruiser class vessel) isn't a great choice since it can't hide very well(1). Better start with a mass-produced craft or one that follows common design lines and add some hidden weapons
(1) I go with most versions of Traveller and drop the "transforming" hull
It was designed as a salvage/rescue ship and some are misused as pirat craf
Works better in systems where accelleration is mass-based instead of volume based since it explains the powerful M-Drives. Those are needed to still make a decend speed loaded.
In asymetrical warfare a purpose build raider (unless it's a cruiser class vessel) isn't a great choice since it can't hide very well(1). Better start with a mass-produced craft or one that follows common design lines and add some hidden weapons
(1) I go with most versions of Traveller and drop the "transforming" hull
Ah, okay. I didn't get that. I thought you actually meant some admiral or lord was having physical Vargr Corsair assets traverse the Imperium from the Extent's border region to the Sol sphere.
Guess the jokes on me
IMTU, most worlds within my (not very) Big Empire generally handle their own neighborhood's patrols, if they are at all able to, leaving the Imperial fleet free to protect the homeworld and extend her reach elsewhere. This means that there's (notionally) a wide variety of warships built at a wide variation of tech. Over time, it means that there's all sorts of ships getting scrapped, decommissioned, sold, "lost," etcetera.
One design that comes to mind is a "patrol carrier" produced by a tech 9 world; (CT Book 2, NOT High Guard). Jump-1, because it didn't need to go that far from home, being intended to patrol just the local cluster. Maneuver is 2Gs, the fastest a TL 9 drive will make that size hull go. It's essentially a delivery system for a squadron of 12 small fighters.
Selling points for the clever would-be pirate king interested in a scrapped patrol carrier:
4 hardpoints, and a model/3 computer.
A100 ton fuel tank (intended to refuel fighters) allows for two successive jumps
The ship's fighter hangar (130 tons +/- with wide clamshell bay doors)
13 staterooms (just enough if the fighter jocks double-berthed, plenty of room for your merry band)
Brand new, it's cheaper than a standard Type T. Used and stripped out, it's probably cheaper than a Subbie. What's not to like? It'll beat a merchantman; and it's not like you're going to stand and fight when the Navy shows up. Though it can stand toe-to-toe with those silly transforming corsairs, and win...
One design that comes to mind is a "patrol carrier" produced by a tech 9 world; (CT Book 2, NOT High Guard). Jump-1, because it didn't need to go that far from home, being intended to patrol just the local cluster. Maneuver is 2Gs, the fastest a TL 9 drive will make that size hull go. It's essentially a delivery system for a squadron of 12 small fighters.
Selling points for the clever would-be pirate king interested in a scrapped patrol carrier:
4 hardpoints, and a model/3 computer.
A100 ton fuel tank (intended to refuel fighters) allows for two successive jumps
The ship's fighter hangar (130 tons +/- with wide clamshell bay doors)
13 staterooms (just enough if the fighter jocks double-berthed, plenty of room for your merry band)
Brand new, it's cheaper than a standard Type T. Used and stripped out, it's probably cheaper than a Subbie. What's not to like? It'll beat a merchantman; and it's not like you're going to stand and fight when the Navy shows up. Though it can stand toe-to-toe with those silly transforming corsairs, and win...
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