Planets have human rights (in the Imperium)?

[DaveChase]

UN document would give 'Mother Earth' same rights as humans

http://www.canada.com/technology/do...r+Earth+same+rights+humans/4597840/story.html

So, I wonder if this type of situation would/could exist in the OTU.

Dave Chase

 

[samuelvss]

So earth could sue for divorce?
I remember in Thucydides, during the revolution of Corcyra (sp?), a state lost all vestiges of civilization, descending into a state of barbarism that would make Hobbes look like an optimist. The first step in this descent was that words lost their meaning.

Maybe Plato was right about democracy.

 

[HiverLord]

The first step in this descent was that words lost their meaning.

And we are well on our way to that again! My daughter and her friends (teenagers... sheesh) keep arguing that certain non-words are words: texted, and many others that don't resemble proper English (or, for that matter, any other language of which I'm aware of, other than slang...)

And the day that inanimate objects (planets or otherwise) get the same rights as sophonts... well, I won't go there.

 

[Vile]

I remember in Thucydides, during the revolution of Corcyra (sp?) [...]

Happy 2,460th birthday (or so)!

 

[Hemdian]

My daughter and her friends (teenagers... sheesh) keep arguing that certain non-words are words: texted, and many others that don't resemble proper English (or, for that matter, any other language of which I'm aware of, other than slang...)

What's wrong with "texted"? It's a perfectly cromulent word.

 

[far-trader]

What's wrong with "texted"? It's a perfectly cromulent word.

Embiggener

(yeah, "texted" is here to stay, but I bet many who use it can't spell it )

 

[BlackBat242]

txtd

 

[HiverLord]

What's wrong with "texted"? It's a perfectly cromulent word.

cromulent - I thought that was the point!

Slang seems to be taking over the language [English, anyway; can't speak for (or with) others...]

 

[DaveChase]

What's wrong with "texted"? It's a perfectly cromulent word.

Embiggener

(yeah, "texted" is here to stay, but I bet many who use it can't spell it )

txtd

cromulent - I thought that was the point!

Slang seems to be taking over the language [English, anyway; can't speak for (or with) others...]

Just curious but what does all of these posts (the majority posted to the thread so far) actually have to do with the main post?


Dave Chase

 

[far-trader]

Just curious but what does all of these posts (the majority posted to the thread so far) actually have to do with the main post?


Dave Chase

Nothing at all ?

(...but at least it's so far avoided all the political and religious pitfalls I feared would ensare it, to mix metaphors )

But you're quite correct, on topic, my musing from the same elsewhere...

Of course in an interstellar polity the size of the Imperium there must be at least one such world. Probably many.

And given this is a sci-fi game it is even possible that one or more worlds are in fact sentient, though they may not be on a level the population can actually communicate with, or even truly recognize. Think processing thoughts on the order of milennia and concerning oneself with the entire ecosystem and not a few individuals.

 

[DaveChase]

...

Of course in an interstellar polity the size of the Imperium there must be at least one such world. Probably many.

And given this is a sci-fi game it is even possible that one or more worlds are in fact sentient, though they may not be on a level the population can actually communicate with, or even truly recognize. Think processing thoughts on the order of milennia and concerning oneself with the entire ecosystem and not a few individuals.

Or possibly stated this way;

Think processing thoughts on the order of milennia and concerning oneself with the entire ecosystem and not those fleas and annoying infestation.

an Eon later, the planet puts out a call for help on taking care of a rapidly growing nusiance that has actually made some small holes and explosions on it surface and under its wet skin

a century later some small saucer like ships carrying some small grey life forms come and take samples of some of the growing infestation. They claim that they have only one cure for them and that for the planet to take a deep breath and then let it all out. But after that the planet will either go into a deep sleep or in the extreme possibly die. The planet decides it will wait out the infestation as they might actually kill them selves off from over population and lack of food.

After a long nap the planet awakes to find that the infestation actually has not only grown to cover the entire world but the seem to be messing with their cold regions and have even taken up living on their favorite decoration that circles them.

Dave Chase

 

[fusor]

I think the people who write these headlines and articles need to be smacked around a bit for making them so misleading, and also I think people actually should read the article before responding to the title alone.

The document referred to in the article doesn't actually say anything about "giving planets the same rights as humans" (the article does, but that's bad reporting for you), it just suggests that the Earth may have "rights". it's essentially suggesting that humans need to temper their exploitation of the planet and realise that there are limits that need to be adhered to if resources are to be sustainable.

They may phrase it as "rights", but in a way I think it's about giving Earth a "voice" to say "OK stop now, that's enough". Whether you think that appraoch is reasonable or not is up to you, but it's not something so ridiculous as giving the planet "human rights".

 

[DaveChase]

I think the people who write these headlines and articles need to be smacked around a bit for making them so misleading, and also I think people actually should read the article before responding to the title alone.

The document referred to in the article doesn't actually say anything about "giving planets the same rights as humans" (the article does, but that's bad reporting for you), it just suggests that the Earth may have "rights". it's essentially suggesting that humans need to temper their exploitation of the planet and realise that there are limits that need to be adhered to if resources are to be sustainable.

They may phrase it as "rights", but in a way I think it's about giving Earth a "voice" to say "OK stop now, that's enough". Whether you think that appraoch is reasonable or not is up to you, but it's not something so ridiculous as giving the planet "human rights".

:lol:

Nope, it says what and how I meant it.

It was hopefully designed to get not only people to read it (the thread more than the article) but to inspire some friendly debate about SciFi topic of living? planets that could have rights.



Dave Chase

 

[Ishmael]

A nice early sci-fi story....
"When the World Screamed" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
....A Professor Challenger story....
http://www.forgottenfutures.com/game/ff3/wscream.htm

perfect for a Space:1889 game, even

 

[aramis]

The moment planets gain rights, people lose right to make use of them... such nonsense shouldn't survive the next wave of imperialism.

 

[far-trader]

Maybe it's my faulty faculties conflating sources again but...

Wasn't there a CT era published adventure where competing MegaCorps hired Mercs (which subcontracted to the PCs or some such) to get around the declaimed right of a planet based on the inhabitants beliefs it was alive (Gaia-ish)? The Imperium was (technically) forbidding the mining because of the local beliefs and had interdicted the world. The PCs had to go in (on the sly) and help insure that the sympathetic (to the hiring MegaCorp mining outfit) won a little war and then they would tell the Imperium they were ok with mining... yada yada.

...or maybe that's just how we played it or I planned to run it way back then

 

[BlackBat242]

How do you negotiate with a planet to open a new mine... of make a road... or cut down a single f%$# tree, for *^%$#'s sake?

You can't... unless you employ some "psychic" to "telepathically communicate with the planet"... in which case that person is now planetary dictator.


Any such assignments of "rights" to a planet immediately bans any occupation of that planet by tool-using, environment-altering beings.

 

[fusor]

How do you negotiate with a planet to open a new mine... of make a road... or cut down a single f%$# tree, for *^%$#'s sake?

Again, read the article.

Companies wouldn't "negotiate with the planet" - they would negotiate with groups that advocate for the planet. They would have to make a case that their exploitation of a resource can be done responsibly, while causing minimal pollution and disruption to local environment and ecosystems. And the advocacy groups would (presumably) have the right to stop the companies if they got out of hand.

Of course, I'd rate the chance of anything even remotely like this getting anywhere to be about the same as a snowball's survival in hell. Environmental protection is unprofitable for resource exploitation companies, after all.

 

[aramis]

Again, read the article.

Companies wouldn't "negotiate with the planet" - they would negotiate with groups that advocate for the planet. They would have to make a case that their exploitation of a resource can be done responsibly, while causing minimal pollution and disruption to local environment and ecosystems. And the advocacy groups would (presumably) have the right to stop the companies if they got out of hand.

Of course, I'd rate the chance of anything even remotely like this getting anywhere to be about the same as a snowball's survival in hell. Environmental protection is unprofitable for resource exploitation companies, after all.

Any such group is going to, in very short order, be corrupt or dead. There is simply too much at stake.

Not that indiscriminate mining and harvesting is good, either, but by appointing a guardianship one also make makes that guardian (or group of guardians)inordinately powerful.

I'm certain the 3I would never recognize the planet itself as having rights, but very well let the delusional locals retain their delusion, interdict the world, and sneak people down to arrange natural disasters for the most vocal opponents of use... people who make Hasimir Fenring look lilly-white-pure.

 

[Vile]

Still, it could be another excuse for the many unpopulated garden worlds in the OTU - the Imperium has simply banned their exploitation to safeguard the rights of the indigenous biosphere. Megacorporations wouldn't be too bothered because there are plenty of resources in the asteroid belts. In the rare cases where something worth exploiting was actually found within the biosphere, I'm sure that strings could be pulled to allow them in.

Governments are, by definition, guardians of planetary resources. There are probably few places in the civilised OTU where individuals or corporations could exploit resources without some form of licence or permission from the government. Of course, as Aramis pointed out, this tends to make governments inordinately powerful and prone to corruption.

All food for adventure.