mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Me too. I consider it to have been overlooked and omitted by accident rather than design
TL equipment changes in the 3I?
- Thread starter Garyius2003
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I don't recall any canonical text saying that it's the Imperial Navy that is shipping meson guns, but I may be mistaken. So on the assumption that the IN is, indeed, shipping meson guns from one world to another, here's one possiblkity: The IN buys its meson guns from one TL15 world with a comparative advantage in building meson guns and ships them to other TL15 worlds to be installed in ships there, thus saving a few megacredits. Comparative advantage is beyond the scope of the ship design rules, but it is a feature of "real life".
Hans
Yes, I recall once sitting next to a JPL scientist on a fight from L.A. to Frankfurt. She was going to pick and return with a specialized, hand made lens, for a military satellite.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Nope - they are first mentioned in DGP's 101 robots 1 year earlier than the Challenge article.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Traveller adventure page 20.
So it is. A couple of meson guns carried from the naval base at Inthe to the naval base at Aramis. Nothing to do with shipbuilding, then. Obviously spare parts stocked in order to be able to replace destroyed guns. Final destination might not even be the base at Aramis.
BTW, if you're only going to respond to the first sentence in my post, you might as well trim the rest of it.
Hans
Not really relevant. Installing on a new ship or, replacing damaged ones takes the same expertise.
Yes, but building them in the first place requires TL15 manufacturers; installing them only requires TL12 or better shipyard workers.
Guns stored at the naval base on Inthe weren't necessarily built on Inthe (and these one weren't, since they're TL15 and Inthe is TL9) and they aren't necessarily meant to be installed in anything at Aramis, although that is less certain. Aramis has a population of 50,000 and a TL of 11 (unless its space TL is in advance of its general TL). Rules aside, how likely are the civilian shipyards there to be able to handle 1000T TL15 spinals? Extremely unlikely, I'd say. (Going by TCS rules Aramis can't even build 100T ships, but I did say rules aside, didn't I?
) The naval base may or may not be a different matter, as we don't know how big the repair facilities there are. It would make sense that it would be able to use the spare parts store there, but that would require a big well-manned base. A minimum of several thousand workers would be my guess. Too bad we don't have any rules about that.Hans
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hang on a moment, I thought we did, but where...
...off for a quick look. I think it is in S9 discussion about bases.
Hmm, nope, not S9 at a quick look. All it seems to say is Navy Bases are limited to about 1000tons at the Downport part of the base (but may handle larger). Maybe it was an evil HG1 mention again
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Why use expensive jump travel to move stuff to where it won't be used?
I guess it would not be so simple. Fist he'd had to 'unlearn' many things he knew (and were valid with his time's knowledge), then learn some basics he'd never even fantasied about, and then he could begin to learn the techincal skills...
And 'unlearning' is even more difficult than learning, as you must first accept what you know is wrong...
Perhaps the factory is in China because it's cheaper to manufacture there, but not because in your neighbourhood there's no people capable to manufacture it.
End even so, how does it take for you to ask for some graphic cards and have them at home? In Traveller, even if they were manufactured on a planet 1 jump away, it will take at least 2 weeks more than that. And if we're talking about more vital things than graphic cards, thise lapse of time may well lead to some trouble ('yes sir, the pirates are attacking, but our TL 15 SDB is to repair and we're waiting for the replacement parts from Rhylanor. They're expected in about two weeks...')
Fuzzy canon at best I would say
Many things in canon may be, and they are canon yet...
TY
Perhaps they are more cheaply produced at another place, or the other planet is more specialized on them...
But that doesn't mean they cannot be manufactured on the planet where they wil lbe assembled.
With his IQ? It would be simpler than stated.
(forgot to say before)
I've already posted in other threads I believe most IN bases have lots of TL 15 stuff as spares for repairs. I thing that's how 125th fleet could survive in Jewell a more than 2 years siege without being reduced to hulks, as Jewell's TL 12 was not enough to support them.
I dont know if that's before or after publishing Book 8 Robots, but it's also mentioned on it (page 15), and that's GDW stuff, not DGP's.
Peter Schutze
SOC-12
>sir, the pirates are attacking, but our TL 15 SDB is to repair and we're waiting for the replacement parts from Rhylanor. They're expected in about two weeks...'
unless you dropped the phrase "we finally got budget for", "short because of last weeks enemy assault" or something similar from that sentence the entire logistics staff for your system navy should be awaiting courts martial for gross incompetence
a temporary shortage at a local armory is one thing but in *normal* times a nationwide (or systemwide) shortage of a military spare part is another. even now when the major nations are at peace they have parts in sizes up to entire tank gun assemblies etc for 30 days or more of combat operation.
standard modern military purchasing: Australia for example has complete m1 abrahms tanks to replace 1/3 of operational vehicles plus enough complete parts "kits" to assemble a half dozen more provided the biggest pieces of metal (the bare metal frame) are available
unless you dropped the phrase "we finally got budget for", "short because of last weeks enemy assault" or something similar from that sentence the entire logistics staff for your system navy should be awaiting courts martial for gross incompetence
a temporary shortage at a local armory is one thing but in *normal* times a nationwide (or systemwide) shortage of a military spare part is another. even now when the major nations are at peace they have parts in sizes up to entire tank gun assemblies etc for 30 days or more of combat operation.
standard modern military purchasing: Australia for example has complete m1 abrahms tanks to replace 1/3 of operational vehicles plus enough complete parts "kits" to assemble a half dozen more provided the biggest pieces of metal (the bare metal frame) are available
You're right, but those situations you're quoting may happen, more so if your technicians are in short supply too because they're using stuff od a TL higher that the one they're used too.
What I mean to say is that most systems will try to use and build starships they can mantain without roo much problem, nor having to import spares, as long as tehy can, due to the maintenance (and financial) troubles it could bring.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
LBB8 was written by the DGP staff rather than GDW and used material from TD1-3.
It's best to go with the more probable than the improbable. Considering expense, it isn't headed somewhere else.
Best in what way? That depends entirely on what ramifications you prefer. If you want the Aramis naval base to be a bustling place with thousands of workers and spacers and a major impact on life in Leedor (capital of Aramis), then it's best that the guns are meant to be used there. If you want the base to be a sleepy backwater that would be hard pressed to service the PCs' Chrysanthemum, then it's best that they're not.
It's only the more probable if the naval base is big enough to install the guns in a major vessel. If not, it's not so much improbable as impossible.
Considering the expense, why transport guns from Inthe to Aramis? The IN already paid to have them shipped to Inthe. Why not leave them there and ship a couple from Rhylanor? Inthe, being closer to the Zhodani border, is more likely to be closer to any ship with its spinal shot to pieces than Aramis.
Maybe the guns are being moved as part of a fiddle. Moving them from Inthe to Aramis via Zila on a jump-1 freighter is monumentally inefficient. The cheapest way would be by jump-3 to L'oeul d'Dieu via Risek and then by jump-1 to Aramis. But Akerut might not be able to provide the service then. Failing that, a jump-2 freighter would still be far far cheaper and much faster than a jump-1 freighter. But Akerut might not have a jump-2 freighter of the requisite size handy. In any case, either Akerut is taking a massive loss on the deal or the IN is paying far too much. Sounds to me like there must be some massive bribery involved long before Ashkashkur gets into the act. The whole trip could be pointless, designed solely for the purpose of siphoning some money out of the contract. Those guns could be on the way back to Inthe in another six months.
Hans
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