General Wouldn't any Tech proliferate as fast as travel throughout the Imperium?

[mike wightman]

What makes you think democracies will survive to become post scarcity?

My money is on the billionaire class exterminating everyone apart from those that amuse them.

 

[Spinward Flow]

What makes you think democracies will survive to become post scarcity?

According to LBB3.81 world generation:

• Government: 2 (Direct Democracy) is possible if Population: 0-7
• Government: 4 (Representative Democracy) is possible if Population: 0-9

That's because due to the way that CT world generation works, the Government code can be in a +/- 5 tolerance range from the Population code (because 2D-7+Pop).

If you're looking for TRUE democracy/republic types of governments in your UWP codes, Governments: 2 and 4 are your only options. Everything else is "not really resting on a foundation of democracy" ...

 

[Enoki]

What makes you think democracies will survive to become post scarcity?

My money is on the billionaire class exterminating everyone apart from those that amuse them.

I'd say it's more likely that they'll turn everyone into robots to serve them...

 

[coliver988]

Or, given better technology and the planet having one or more moons, you bounce the signal off of those...

that's no moon - that's a cellular satellite!

 

[Condottiere]

I think post scarcity is how Athenian democracy started.

 

[warwizard]

I think that the small, high value items that are needed for intersteller transport repairs would be widely available as long as you can get a request onto the X-boat network. A high jump ship will expedited from the nearest class A starport that has the parts needed. Most repair yards will have a few higher tech than locally made parts to repair ships that need repairs or they cannot jump. A higher tech drive can be dropped in whole to replace a lower tech drive. I see that 10DT and larger ships might carry a 200DT high jump messenger to get recovered from misjumps with engineering failures to the drives. Now what about consumer goods? Ships that cannot land to deliver cargos that carry their own lighters might bring portible communicators down with the trading officer so she can remain in contact with the ship or lighter, causing the locals to try to trade for a spare communicator, so communications equipment might be available on the really remote outposts of civilization, but these are surface to space systems not planetary beyond LOS systems. What else? Weapons, cleaning kits, gunsmithing tools, ammo, reloading equipment, sighting systems. Survival gear, emergency rations, shelters, clothing and the stuff remote outposts, small craft expeditions might need. What would not be available? useless crap like designer purses, silk suits, wing tip men's shoes. Things that move fast to the boonies... that new micro fusion plant that can be carried in a ship's boat emergency survival kit to power your emergency radio, charge your batteries and keep the shelters and the air recyclers/purifiers running for a year, and the emergency low berths for 50 years. (TL 17 50l 50Kg) You get the idea, usefull things that make it more likley that you survive being on the ragged edge of nowhere.

 

[Enoki]

I would say starting somewhere about TL 11 or so, what you get is increasingly 3D printed / manufactured everything, or nearly everything. Need some part for your ship? You provide the print(s), they make the part.

Out in the "boonies" only the basic necessities are going to be available. Nobody can stay in business selling items that somebody needs once in a blue moon. Improvisation and self-manufacture would be the rule rather than some little general store stocking most goods. You build shelter and other buildings using locally procured materials. You grow most or all of your food locally. Tools and such are a one-time item for most inhabitants. They bring good quality ones with them and use them for years on end, maybe a lifetime.

It isn't as if the locals don't know how to live on whatever planet they're on, they do. When colonists arrive, they have some idea of what they'll build and need to survive. You bring what you need to build and grow, not stuff that makes it easy to get by. Why bring a complex fusion plant when solar will do for the short-term (initial few years to a couple of decades)? Having the equipment to drill wells and build structures is more important.

 

[Condottiere]

On the other hand, a small colony would be prime dumping ground for cheap tech.

Electric cars, smartphones ...

Not sure about diapers and female hygiene products.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Ok, the first thing to remember the Imperium is incredibly conservative. Just because it is "New" doesn't mean it's better.

The Imperium is only a network for Trade and Commerce. It doesn't really exist for any other reason.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I think that the small, high value items that are needed for intersteller transport repairs would be widely available as long as you can get a request onto the X-boat network. A high jump ship will expedited from the nearest class A starport that has the parts needed.

FOR FREE
At "no added cost for you" ...?

Most repair yards will have a few higher tech than locally made parts to repair ships that need repairs or they cannot jump.

You're basically talking about having an "inventory stock" of parts and spares (in some form or fashion) which cannot be manufactured locally (or on demand) which get imported and stockpiled "just in case someone needs them" at some point.

That sort of thing works JUST FINE when you're dealing with (LBB2) "standard drives" and engineering.
Standard drive needs standard parts ... let me check the inventory ...

The problem you run into is when you're dealing with (LBB5) "custom drives" and engineering ... emphasis on the word CUSTOM.
Custom drives tend to need custom parts ... which by definition are not going to be "the standard stuff" found in any sort of inventory stockpile.

Of course, for the unfairly skilled engineers it's possible to "kitbash" together "parts for wrong type of ship" for use in your own starship as a temporary patch, but expect to get some dirty looks from the team doing your annual overhaul maintenance.

A higher tech drive can be dropped in whole to replace a lower tech drive.

Yes.
You can retrofit drives into a starship.
Problem is ... you need to be at the "high tech place" to do that (usually).
TL=9 backwater world is rarely going to have the TL=15 drive system of exactly the right power and dimensions to fit YOUR ship for such a refit without also wanting to rearrange some bulkheads (typically).
Square peg, meet round hole.

I see that 10DT and larger ships might carry a 200DT high jump messenger to get recovered from misjumps with engineering failures to the drives.

LOL whut?

 

[TamsinP]

I assume that he meant 10k DT...

 

[whartung]

Ok, the first thing to remember the Imperium is incredibly conservative. Just because it is "New" doesn't mean it's better.

The Imperium is only a network for Trade and Commerce. It doesn't really exist for any other reason.

Indeed. As long as it doesn't bubble out of the gravity well of the planet (/system), the Imperium doesn't much care what happens on each world.

The fundamental issue with many societies and their conservatism is that the people espousing those beliefs die, and the next generations don't necessarily toe the line. I said before that capital is impatient. More impatient are young people, especially young men. The new generation like to say "no" to the old generation as a matter of course.

And it's those young people, and their generation, that will bring in the new shinies.

I would say starting somewhere about TL 11 or so, what you get is increasingly 3D printed / manufactured everything, or nearly everything. Need some part for your ship? You provide the print(s), they make the part.

3D printing/additive manufacturing don't cover all of the bases. Simple stamped brackets made that way for flexibility, for example. Forged components for strength. A forged item is different from a forged ingot that is then shaped by a cutter. Rolled steel is rolled for a reason.

 

[Enoki]

3D printing/additive manufacturing don't cover all of the bases. Simple stamped brackets made that way for flexibility, for example. Forged components for strength. A forged item is different from a forged ingot that is then shaped by a cutter. Rolled steel is rolled for a reason.

We don't know where this technology will go. For example, a forged item might be 3D printed out of metal powder in the future then put in some small oven (assuming a smaller part here) and like a microwave is heated and tempered for strength in minutes. Rolled steel could be again made from powder then pressed using high pressure gasses like a HIP furnace does today.

We can't know for sure where these processes will go in the future, but it's likely they change significantly from what we're doing today. 3D printer technology is a relatively new one and it has a long way to go in improvement from where it is now.

 

[Dragoner]

Rolls "grows" turbine blades. https://www.foundrymag.com/molds-co...ls-royce-starts-up-foundry-for-turbine-blades

 

[Jame]

I tend to assume that TLs 7 to 9 are more common than the library data of the 3I suggests, partly because of the places sapient creatures have settled.

E.G., a settlement on an exotic or corrosive atmosphere world would need to have TL 7 minimum to keep the atmosphere out. Unless there's been an event, in which case the settlement is either dead or will get its TL back up even if it needs to go into debt to do so.

 

[Enoki]

On the other hand, a small colony would be prime dumping ground for cheap tech.

Electric cars, smartphones ...

Not sure about diapers and female hygiene products.

I would say for a small colony on a world with Earth-like conditions--give or take--you'd be better off bringing in multifuel diesels for vehicles and stuff like a few heliographs than electronic / electric technology. You want stuff you easily repair and use without much need for power or can easily obtain fuel for locally. Even vehicles running on wood gas might be an option if wood is available locally.

Small colonies would be a prime market for LOW tech, not cheap tech. They'd want stuff that's reliable, easy to fix, and can be run on local resources. Alcohol, biodiesel, and the like are the best fuel choices if plants are available. They're good even if you are importing seeds and plants to grow there.

Solar would be a good choice on a low or no atmosphere world for power early on. Lightweight, relatively compact, and the lack of an atmosphere increases its production. Of course, this does depend on the star and distance from it too.

I'd say, a small colony with little outside support would want say, almost entirely TL6 or lower products. Now, a small colony getting outside support could opt for anything up to TL15+ depending on how generous that support is.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I would say for a small colony on a world with Earth-like conditions--give or take--you'd be better off bringing in multifuel diesels for vehicles and stuff

The problem with ANY chemical combustion technology (and internal combustion is more sensitive to this than external combustion) is the specific details of atmospheric composition. I know you're stipulating "Earth-like conditions--give or take" ... which basically amounts to Atmosphere: 6 (Standard) exclusively ... all other atmosphere codes need not apply.

Alcohol, biodiesel, and the like are the best fuel choices if plants are available.

If you had to get there using fusion power anyway, assuming it's not your native homeworld ... {significant look}
But again, you're starting from the assumption of "Earth-like conditions--give or take" which are actually relatively RARE results from the LBB3.81 world generation process. Not impossible, but certainly rare.

Solar would be a good choice on a low or no atmosphere world for power early on. Lightweight, relatively compact, and the lack of an atmosphere increases its production. Of course, this does depend on the star and distance from it too.

The thing that so many people miss is that solar power IS NUCLEAR POWER ... it's just that the reactor is "a little further away" and doesn't require regular refueling.
Can still be a slight radiation hazard if you stand in the star light (unprotected) for too long ...

 

[Kakistocrat]

I think that the small, high value items that are needed for interstellar transport repairs would be widely available as long as you can get a request onto the X-boat network. A high jump ship will [be] expedited from the nearest class A starport that has the parts needed.

FOR FREE
At “no added cost for you” …?

Well, gratis delivery does require Thermodon Prime membership …

 

[Enoki]

The problem with ANY chemical combustion technology (and internal combustion is more sensitive to this than external combustion) is the specific details of atmospheric composition. I know you're stipulating "Earth-like conditions--give or take" ... which basically amounts to Atmosphere: 6 (Standard) exclusively ... all other atmosphere codes need not apply.

If you had to get there using fusion power anyway, assuming it's not your native homeworld ... {significant look}
But again, you're starting from the assumption of "Earth-like conditions--give or take" which are actually relatively RARE results from the LBB3.81 world generation process. Not impossible, but certainly rare.

The thing that so many people miss is that solar power IS NUCLEAR POWER ... it's just that the reactor is "a little further away" and doesn't require regular refueling.
Can still be a slight radiation hazard if you stand in the star light (unprotected) for too long ...

No, I'm stipulating enough of an atmosphere that you can get combustion to work. A thin--say, equivalent to 15,000 to 20,000 feet--atmosphere with oxygen is sufficient to allow an ICE to work. You might super- or turbocharge it, but it will work. So, most atmospheres will allow for ICE it will just require tweaking them for conditions.

Again, depending on what's available and local conditions, you could manufacture monopropellants and alternatives that allow AIP engines to work. These wouldn't need "Earth-like conditions" to function.

Solar power converts light into electrical energy whether that source is a star or something else. It just happens that normally for large scale solar you are using a star, and that star is running on fusion.

 

[atpollard]

No, I'm stipulating enough of an atmosphere that you can get combustion to work. A thin--say, equivalent to 15,000 to 20,000 feet--atmosphere with oxygen is sufficient to allow an ICE to work. You might super- or turbocharge it, but it will work. So, most atmospheres will allow for ICE it will just require tweaking them for conditions.

Again, depending on what's available and local conditions, you could manufacture monopropellants and alternatives that allow AIP engines to work. These wouldn't need "Earth-like conditions" to function.

Solar power converts light into electrical energy whether that source is a star or something else. It just happens that normally for large scale solar you are using a star, and that star is running on fusion.

Technically, a thin atmosphere could be equivalent to Denver, Colorado. While I have never been there, I am pretty sure that they have the exact same cars that we have. They just have trouble hard boiling an egg (without a pressure cooker).