Has anyone pulled off a Book 2 smallship Third Imperium? A 3i without high guard, using ships of 5,000 tons or less....
The idea appeals to me, particulaly building the ships needed!
Btw I tjink I may have posted this in the wrong forum, apologies!
IMTU High Guard doesn't exist - LBB2 all the way (well sort of - the weapons and screens have been included on military ships - my holy grail is to find an armour rule for LBB2 ships I'm happy with).
No, but it defeats any purpose I've heard for having a small ship universe (basically, to give PC ships a shot at either not being bothered by the Navy or having a decent chance to defy the odd Navy patrol vessel). With thousand ships replacing each megaton ship, patrols become squadrons of 1000T ships rather than the drips and draps left over once the big battleships have been paid for. (Mind you, IMTU patrols are already usually at least half a squadron of ships that are individually a match for the usual PC-owned tramp freighter, but that's IMTU).Quite reasonable if imposing a 5,000 dton limit on the grounds of tech limitations. Akin to airplanes and ships in the age of sail. No reason a thousand 1K ships wouldn't replace a megaton vessel if tech limits size.
That presumes that worlds will have space naval presences comparable with the wet naval presences on earth in the 20th and 21st centuries.No, but it defeats any purpose I've heard for having a small ship universe (basically, to give PC ships a shot at either not being bothered by the Navy or having a decent chance to defy the odd Navy patrol vessel). With thousand ships replacing each megaton ship, patrols become squadrons of 1000T ships rather than the drips and draps left over once the big battleships have been paid for. (Mind you, IMTU patrols are already usually at least half a squadron of ships that are individually a match for the usual PC-owned tramp freighter, but that's IMTU).
Note that I'm not saying thet there can't be other reasons to prefer a small ship universe; I may even have heard some of them, but if I have, I've forgotten all about them.
Hans
No, it assumes that worlds will have space naval presences comparable with the space naval presences in large ship universes. That is, the sort of space navies we see in the OTU.That presumes that worlds will have space naval presences comparable with the wet naval presences on earth in the 20th and 21st centuries.
No, but it defeats any purpose I've heard for having a small ship universe (basically, to give PC ships a shot at either not being bothered by the Navy or having a decent chance to defy the odd Navy patrol vessel). With thousand ships replacing each megaton ship, patrols become squadrons of 1000T ships rather than the drips and draps left over once the big battleships have been paid for. (Mind you, IMTU patrols are already usually at least half a squadron of ships that are individually a match for the usual PC-owned tramp freighter, but that's IMTU).
Note that I'm not saying thet there can't be other reasons to prefer a small ship universe; I may even have heard some of them, but if I have, I've forgotten all about them.
Hans
No, it assumes that worlds will have space naval presences comparable with the space naval presences in large ship universes. That is, the sort of space navies we see in the OTU.
Funding we've already covered. Manpower is just a question of either paying enough to make the job attractive enough, draft the people you need, or rely on patriotism to produce volunteers (More about the third option below). It helps that the manpower requirements for Traveller warships are one to two orders of magnitude lower than those of 21st Century wet navies (Based on crew required relative to cost of ships).But a navy has TWO very important limits: the number of people willing to go, and the funding to get them on things that can go.
Does the US navy actually have too few people to man all the ships Congress is willing to fund? That sounds very unlikely to me.The people, historically, have become less and less willing to ship out as the countries got bigger. The USN, while it has fewer ships and more warm bodies than in WWII, has a lower percentage of the US population. So does the merchant marine.
I don't see why the size of the merchant marine is relevant to the size of the national navy.Further, the bigger the pop, the less people need offworld trade (which is at a severe disadvantage to onworld in terms of time, let alone shipping costs)... The absolute numbers of trade off-world should go up with Population, but down as a function of per-capita trade, as on-world trade becomes more and more viable.
That will last just until your unreasonable, warmongering neighbor builds a dozen battle ships and the corresponding number of cruisers and escorts. Then you'll build a dozen battleships yourself -- or perhaps two dozens. Then your neighbor will build fifty battleships, and before you can say "Arms Race", you'll both be maintaining the biggest navy you can afford. (And the threat to your life, liberty, and way of life will help you get volunteers to man your ships).Yes, a Pop A world should have thousands of Type Ts, several cruiser designs, and a few 5000Td battleships...
Does the US navy actually have too few people to man all the ships Congress is willing to fund? That sounds very unlikely to me.
I don't see why the size of the merchant marine is relevant to the size of the national navy.
Would it help us to think in terms of aircraft, where a limit in size results in squadrons. The US has 5500 planes, for a population of 5. The F22 has a unit cost of 150 million, a modern frigate has a unit cost around 400 million.
But assuming for purposes of argument that you are right about the cause of this manpower shortage, it's not really a lack of suitable people, is it? It's a lack of suitable people who are willing to join the Navy. It's nothing a draft (or a press gang!!) couldn't deal with. For historical reasons, the US isn't practicing the draft at the moment, but in a pinch it could.Wet-Navy really is the best model for figuring space forces suitable people... And that's really the issue. Its not how much can be spent, as who can be sent without going nutters. And the USN found that to be a very limited resource.
There really is nothing to gain by a small ship universe. Any limit you can apply to navy size in a small ship universe would apply equally to a large ship universe.
I gain the chance to use Book 2 only. I dislike Book 5 enough that I've had it for 25 years and not once created a ship with it. I don't the the USP and can't read it and combat is far too nebulous with batteries and USP weapon factors.
(Not that it would be cool to have ships as large as "tahat." "Tahat" is a misspelling.)