• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

System Defense Fleets

Spartan159 said:
Resupply points for SDBs come to mind. Rallying points maybe? Denial of asteroid belt refueling? Sheer mean cussedness? :devil:
Click to expand...

You cannot deny the asteroids as refuelling sites unless you have many (and I mean really many) such sites, as the range of the guns is limited and the space to cover very large.

The first two points may be correct. As I said, it has only meaning when it is to defend some important fixed point, incuiding itself, it is made such an important facility.

The last one may not be ruled out, if history has some lessons for us...
 
Last edited:
That's a good question, just what is the range of a large stable platform deep meson gun? By the range chart in T5, up to range Deep Space 10 in the same turn and DS 11 or 12 resolves in next turn.
 
well yeah, by meson guns.
The point about the meson guns and the volume thing is the volume counts only at jumping time, and in some 36 year old rule sets for hitting <cough> HG.
T4 has you just get easier to detect and target lock to more surface area you have and the more power you put out. In T4 get target locked too far out and you'll be dodging C fractional missiles all battle long, or till you fail to dodge one.

The rule set to use changes the battle space a lot, I don't want to get into what is better, just saying a lot of the limitations you guys are talking about are a feature of the rules you envision being used in the battle. If we step back a bit from the rules and think more concretely about system defense and what it entails we might come up with different ideas.
For instance Honor Harrington type missile pods and sensor platforms seeded through the system with the best stealth you can muster, missiles that have ranges in light hours, and attack with C fractional velocities, drones that drift cold and silent to within a few hexes of the enemy fleet , providing targeting info for the hidden missile pods. Time on target strikes with thousands upon thousands of missiles coming from all over the system Huge sensor platforms ringing the planet providing detection and target lock info out to Jupiter. 10's of thousands of fighters with 40g point defense missiles in box launchers, SDB's and monitors Hidden deep meson sites in every body large enough to have one or many. Orbital Spinal mount pulse laser arrays with enough focusing power to range out to mars (energy is cheap! Missiles cost money)

Or one of Larry Niven's X-ray laser embedded in the local star, with star level of energy in the beam. (how the heck do you fight against that?)
 
warwizard said:
Or one of Larry Niven's X-ray laser embedded in the local star, with star level of energy in the beam. (how the heck do you fight against that?)
Click to expand...

Infiltrate with operatives and push the sentiment that bread and circuses is all important, with system defense being an unnecessary expense that is old news. Corrupt the maintenance process by pushing patronage as the top means of winning the contracts. Sabotage the manufactory process for replacement parts by pumping up profits over quality control. Wait ten years and then attack, maybe?

Or at least that's how I'd do it...
 
warwizard said:
The rule set to use changes the battle space a lot, I don't want to get into what is better, just saying a lot of the limitations you guys are talking about are a feature of the rules you envision being used in the battle. If we step back a bit from the rules and think more concretely about system defense and what it entails we might come up with different ideas.
Click to expand...

But you can't do that. You can't handwave the rules away and "come up with ideas", since the "rules" provide the foundation for your thesis.

My system defense fleet is a buoy that lets me know that ships are encroaching so that I can hyperspace my fleet of Tachyon gunned dreadnoughts via the worm hole projector from where the crew likes to shore leave around this garden planet orbiting around a quiet star in the Andromeda galaxy.

When they arrive, they use their quantum ship detectors and use the tachyon guns to englobe the enemy in particle fusion nets -- where they just implode and destroy the enemy ships. Then the fleet returns by dinner, because Layla is dancing tonight -- and they don't want to miss that. They love Layla.
 
whartung said:
When they arrive, they use their quantum ship detectors and use the tachyon guns to englobe the enemy in particle fusion nets -- where they just implode and destroy the enemy ships. Then the fleet returns by dinner, because Layla is dancing tonight -- and they don't want to miss that. They love Layla.
Click to expand...

I think we need to forget the ships and get full stats and skills for Layla.

Sounds like a powerful command and control system that moves fleets.
 
Assuming book 5, Fleet tactics is almost worthless, but ship tactics are gold. Two TL-15 ships, assuming max agility and computer and common sense in spinals, screens, and armor, the ship with a CO with Ship-2 wins against the ship without that skill.
 
whartung said:
But you can't do that. You can't handwave the rules away and "come up with ideas", since the "rules" provide the foundation for your thesis.

My system defense fleet is a buoy that lets me know that ships are encroaching so that I can hyperspace my fleet of Tachyon gunned dreadnoughts via the worm hole projector from where the crew likes to shore leave around this garden planet orbiting around a quiet star in the Andromeda galaxy.

When they arrive, they use their quantum ship detectors and use the tachyon guns to englobe the enemy in particle fusion nets -- where they just implode and destroy the enemy ships. Then the fleet returns by dinner, because Layla is dancing tonight -- and they don't want to miss that. They love Layla.
Click to expand...

Actually everything except the stellar X-ray laser can be done in TNE, T4 or T5, and I suspect the Stellar X-RAY can be done in T5. It is a serious call to think up stuff that can be done to defend a system in tandem with a fleet.

C fractional missile...
start with one of these:
Hull
TL 15 Enhanced bonded superdense 1m3 armor 11 stressed to 19 g's toughness 47.1 density 15
Sphere 1.24m dia 4.84 m2 SF = .0000044
Armor 11/47.1 (minimum.25cm) .25cm * 4.84/1000 = .0121m3
SF 19*.0000044= .0000836
Total armor volume .0122 mass .183mt
Power (nominal1 MW) TL 15 fusion .168m3 .336 mt 1.008MW -.001m2
pp fuel .008m3 .00057mt 292 days endurance
Heplar .1m3 .1mt -1MW 200KN
Payload .1m3 .16mt SR 10kt nuc det laser DE200 DV50 PV286 (3 major hits per BL)
Computer CP1.67 .005 m3 .01mt -.001MW -.0043MW
Battery .05m3 .05mt [.3MW/h]
PEMS Sensor sens 12.5 .05m3 .05mt -.005MW-.1m2
LIDAR Tracker sens 13.5 .1m3 .2mt -.05MW -.05m2
Maneuver fuel .55m3 .039mt (2.2 hours @17 g's)
1000Au Laser comm .015m3 .03mt -0003MW -1.0 m2
Total Mass 1.14mt + maneuver fuel/2 =1.16mt
1.07/200=186m/s or 19 g's at Earth 9.8m/s G's (18.8g at standard)

add a 2 Dt fuel tank that grapples the missile to give you some 28.5 KL of fuel used at .25kl/hr and you have something that averages about 10 g's for 100 hours+ (3600*100*100/1000) = 36000 km/sec or 12% of C. 1/8 C I think qualifies as C fractional as it takes 1.11 min to move from 8 light seconds to detonation range. (the last two hours you detach from the fuel tank and vector in with 19 g's of agility) 8.3 hours at that speed to reach a light hour, with 112 hours of thrust this missile could indeed reach nearly anywhere in the solar system in about 4 days and the 1000 AU laser comm may need more range.
 
Another interesting thread. I love these forums! Anyway, I was also wondering about what would be an appropriate system defense force. I took a look at the map for FFW. For some systems it lists the strength of the SD Forces. I think it's an abstract number, not an actual number of SDBs. But I think it's a good place to start. As for the rest, I'm waiting for T-5 BCS to come out and hopefully add some detail. Also, I don't think most of you have a high enough security clearance for Layla! :smirk:
 
Thats great, but again gear headed, so in my game it would be "X-Ray laser missile, one each, really bad@ss".

warwizard said:
Actually everything except the stellar X-ray laser can be done in TNE, T4 or T5, and I suspect the Stellar X-RAY can be done in T5. It is a serious call to think up stuff that can be done to defend a system in tandem with a fleet.

C fractional missile...
start with one of these:
Hull
TL 15 Enhanced bonded superdense 1m3 armor 11 stressed to 19 g's toughness 47.1 density 15
Sphere 1.24m dia 4.84 m2 SF = .0000044
Armor 11/47.1 (minimum.25cm) .25cm * 4.84/1000 = .0121m3
SF 19*.0000044= .0000836
Total armor volume .0122 mass .183mt
Power (nominal1 MW) TL 15 fusion .168m3 .336 mt 1.008MW -.001m2
pp fuel .008m3 .00057mt 292 days endurance
Heplar .1m3 .1mt -1MW 200KN
Payload .1m3 .16mt SR 10kt nuc det laser DE200 DV50 PV286 (3 major hits per BL)
Computer CP1.67 .005 m3 .01mt -.001MW -.0043MW
Battery .05m3 .05mt [.3MW/h]
PEMS Sensor sens 12.5 .05m3 .05mt -.005MW-.1m2
LIDAR Tracker sens 13.5 .1m3 .2mt -.05MW -.05m2
Maneuver fuel .55m3 .039mt (2.2 hours @17 g's)
1000Au Laser comm .015m3 .03mt -0003MW -1.0 m2
Total Mass 1.14mt + maneuver fuel/2 =1.16mt
1.07/200=186m/s or 19 g's at Earth 9.8m/s G's (18.8g at standard)

add a 2 Dt fuel tank that grapples the missile to give you some 28.5 KL of fuel used at .25kl/hr and you have something that averages about 10 g's for 100 hours+ (3600*100*100/1000) = 36000 km/sec or 12% of C. 1/8 C I think qualifies as C fractional as it takes 1.11 min to move from 8 light seconds to detonation range. (the last two hours you detach from the fuel tank and vector in with 19 g's of agility) 8.3 hours at that speed to reach a light hour, with 112 hours of thrust this missile could indeed reach nearly anywhere in the solar system in about 4 days and the 1000 AU laser comm may need more range.
Click to expand...
 
lostscout5 said:
Another interesting thread. I love these forums! Anyway, I was also wondering about what would be an appropriate system defense force. I took a look at the map for FFW. For some systems it lists the strength of the SD Forces. I think it's an abstract number, not an actual number of SDBs. But I think it's a good place to start. As for the rest, I'm waiting for T-5 BCS to come out and hopefully add some detail. Also, I don't think most of you have a high enough security clearance for Layla! :smirk:
Click to expand...

The only true reference I know is about Regina. In FFW it's depicted s having 10 SDB factors.

In JTAS #9, TAS news service, we find:

(...) While all naval personnel at Regina Naval Base were put on full readiness, all ten heavy system defense boats were launched (...)
Click to expand...
(bold is mine)

So telling us that Regina has only 10 heavy SDBs (no mention about light ones). So, it sems that the SDB factor in FFW is the heavy SDB equivalent.

What is considered a heavy SDB and how many light ones are its equivalent is anyone's guess...
 
Last edited:
lostscout5 said:
Another interesting thread. I love these forums! Anyway, I was also wondering about what would be an appropriate system defense force. I took a look at the map for FFW. For some systems it lists the strength of the SD Forces. I think it's an abstract number, not an actual number of SDBs. But I think it's a good place to start. As for the rest, I'm waiting for T-5 BCS to come out and hopefully add some detail. Also, I don't think most of you have a high enough security clearance for Layla! :smirk:
Click to expand...
Somewhere there was a published formula for calculating SDBs . . . I think it may have been in an issue of JTAS?
 
McPerth said:
THe only true reference I know is about Regina. In FFW it's depicted s having 10 SDB factors.

In JTAS #9, TAS news service, we find:


(bold is mine)

So telling us that Regina has only 10 heavy SDBs (no mention about light ones). So, it sems that the SDB factor in FFW is the heavy SDB equivalent.

What is considered a heavy SDB and how many light ones are its equivalent is anyone's guess...
Click to expand...

Good find! Since FFW lists Regina as having 15C for SD those must be some kickass Heavy SDBs!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

robject
BCS Discussion (Fall 2022) (<HG79)
3 4 5
Replies
81
Views
3K
aramis
aramis
G
Fleets of the Descarothi - League of Suns (Notes)
Replies
9
Views
3K
Graham2001
G
C
Nuke 'em
Replies
9
Views
3K
Carlobrand
C
B
Would like your input regarding my blog
2
Replies
23
Views
3K
kilemall
kilemall
aramis
Before the OTU...
2 3
Replies
42
Views
4K
aramis
aramis
Back
Top