Canon Subject 1: Imperium and Member Worlds

[robject]

I'm trying to gather and validate some canon.

Each relationship with member worlds was negotiated differently, that each remain subtly different, and that each evolves over time. I believe that many Imperial noble positions under the rank of marquis are thus curators and the embodiment of living treaties.

The Imperium owns the starports shown on T5SS (and therefore Travellermap's) starcharts (JTAS #7, Champa Interstellar Starport, TTA). Thus member worlds do not typically own space beyond 10 diameters, and share jurisdiction to 100 diameters.

The Imperium owns Bases (e.g. N,S,D,W,M) and Research Stations.

Companies may own and operate facilities at these starports, and may in specific cases own the Starport itself (SMC, Al Morai; Ad03 Twilight's Peak, Fulacin Starport).

The Imperium does not tolerate:

• spines on civilian craft (ref: TTA, the Emissary)
• heavy weapons in general on civilian craft (potentially, anything but turrets and lasers, missiles, sand)
• psionics (except in secret echelons of the Imperial government itself)

Grey areas: The Imperium prosecutes on these issues where expedient:

• nukes on civilian craft
• "Bad War" / "Rules of War"
• "slavery"
• "piracy"
• political dissent (ref AD01, The Gash)

Legal, but foolish:

• running with your transponder silent (ref Bloodwell)
• arming and armoring your merchant so that it looks like a corsair

 

[Condottiere]

Secession, I would assume.

 

[mike wightman]

I'm trying to remember. Where are the references that tell me if these things are true?

Member worlds typically own their star systems.
Member worlds typically own their starports and shipyards. The extrality line is a legal boundary for customs.

The Imperium owns Bases (e.g. N,S,D,W,M) and Research Stations.
The Imperium owns the space "between" the star systems.

The Traveller Adventure, in the description of the Imperium, mentions it is more correct to view the Imperium as ruling the sea of space between the systems.
The are are too many references to frontier worlds being free to govern themselves, what is less clear is how 'free' core sector worlds are to self govern.

The Imperium does not restrict equipment that ships may carry (except perhaps nukes?), although most civilian ships are not heavily armed/armored.
The Imperium does not tolerate "slavery".
The Imperium does not tolerate "Bad War".
The Imperium does not tolerate "piracy".

All of these are grey areas, there are examples in canon of every single one being bent if not broken, and then there are rules such as the Imperial Rules of War which are unwritten and thus not strictly legally enforceable...
Note that the AHL bought by Oberlindes lines can not come back to the Imperium until it has its spinal deactivated - implying that spinals are out for civilians.

There's something else the Imperium doesn't tolerate, but I can't remember it.

political dissent...

And how about running your ship with its transponder off? Is that illegal?

Ask Oberlindes lines - they had a merchant blown away by the IN due to transponder irregularities.

 

[McPerth]

Note that the AHL bought by Oberlindes lines can not come back to the Imperium until it has its spinal deactivated - implying that spinals are out for civilians.

ITTR there was an article about starmercs in a TD or JTAS (sorry, I cannot find the reference right now) where it was specified (about starmecs) that mesons and PA batteries rated 7+ were forbiden. If that applies to licensed starmercs, I guess more will apply to civilian ships.

Nonetheless, again IIRC, it was told about a Nolikian being used as starmec monitor, and they have MG spinals...

There's something else the Imperium doesn't tolerate, but I can't remember it.

political dissent...

I guess some degree of political dissent is allowed, as far as it does not lead to revolt (of course, the line is uncelar, and so open to judgement by the Imperial leader on spot)

About other forbiden things, and speacking de jure (de facto may be different):

• Nukes in non imperial hands (the only clear statement in IRW)
• Psionics

 

[mike wightman]

Political dissent - a senator locked up on trumped up charges by the subsector authorities (that's that good guy Norris for you...)

See the Traveller Adventure for the blatant disregard of the no nukes rule...

and as I posted, the Imperial Rules of War are unwritten guidelines - it is how the megacorps can get away with having private armies and navies, their own nukes, participation in trade war, exploitation of member worlds etc...

 

[welsh]

The are are too many references to frontier worlds being free to govern themselves, what is less clear is how 'free' core sector worlds are to self govern.

The Warrant of Restoration does specify that the Imperium shall not directly govern any world. (I'd have to look up the reference for that.)

But just where the "sea of space between worlds" begins isn't clear to me. Since the Navy patrols systems (there's no point in patrolling anything else) I'm inclined to say that worlds do not "own" their systems.

Indeed, in my vision of how this works, worlds don't really own anything per se. Bear in mind that old Cleon I in proclaiming the Third Imperium essentially laid claim to hundreds of systems beyond the borders of the Sylean Federation in what was essentially a massive act of theft. I think there is at least one canonical reference (The Traveller Adventure?) to a world being interdicted for the sole purpose of forcing landowners to sell to outside interests. Worlds have self-government but they actually control very little.

 

[robject]

The Warrant of Restoration does specify that the Imperium shall not directly govern any world. (I'd have to look up the reference for that.)

But just where the "sea of space between worlds" begins isn't clear to me. Since the Navy patrols systems (there's no point in patrolling anything else) I'm inclined to say that worlds do not "own" their systems.

It's not clear to me that the Navy is required or indeed allowed to patrol particular systems -- although it is clear that they must operate within star systems.

This is where a canon index would help me.

 

[Whipsnade]

Member worlds typically own their star systems.

When stating the "operational boundary" between COACC (planetary army) forces and the planetary navy, MT's COACC supplement has the local world responsible out to 100D from the main world and the Imperium responsible for the rest.

Of course that open several other cans of worms...

[*] spines on (unlicensed?) civilian craft (ref: Oberlindes and its Lightning-class Cruiser)

Yup, mentioned in AHL and SMC.

[*] psionics

Unless those with psionics are working for them. Implied fairly often from CT on and flatly stated in TNE's RSB.

[*]"Bad War" (aka the rather nebulous "Rules of War")

More like professional lingo among mercenaries rather than an explicit Imperial edict, proscription, etc. Being vague allows the Imperium to intervene when it wants to do so. More importantly, being vague allows the Imperium not to intervene when it cannot.

[*] nukes used by (unlicensed?) civilian craft (but this might be a fuzzy issue)

In CT's TTA, Wolblutn(?) is more worried about being fingered for attacking the scout/courier than being fingered for using nukes in that attack.

Also, given nukes' well documented advantage in HG2 combat, denying their use by planetary, duchy, reserve, and other such naval forces would be a huge handicap. Especially considering how much the Imperium depends on such forces.

It's a shame Hans is no longer with us...

 

[Condottiere]

Where does a system stop and starts?

Hundred planetary diametres appear to be the standard volume of void acknowledged to be within planetary territorial space.

 

[flykiller]

But just where the "sea of space between worlds" begins isn't clear to me.

at the starport gate. "you are now entering imperial territory."

 

[robject]

[Imperial space begins]at the starport gate. "you are now entering imperial territory."

It's certainly an extrality line - a legal boundary for customs purposes.

But, Fly, I need a reference for your statement. I have been assuming that the starport is typically built, maintained, owned and operated by the world.

 

[flykiller]

I have been assuming that the starport is typically built, maintained, owned and operated by the world.

imtu "the imperium rules the space between the stars" meaning it rules the starports. how they are paid for, built, and run, usually is determined by the treaty which brought that world into the imperium in the first place, and ranges anywhere from being a port noble's personal fiefdom to the port noble being almost a rubber-stamp "don't bother me unless it's really important" figurehead. but imperial rules always apply and take precedence.

lots of room for interactive flexibility there.

 

[Garnfellow]

It's pretty clear in GT: Starports that the Starport Authority (SPA) exclusively builds and operates Imperial starports. A world could certainly build its own starport, but without SPA sanction, it will never be an Imperial starport -- a spaceport at best.

"All Imperial starports are Imperial property, regardless of the allegiance of the system they occupy. This concept is known as extraterritoriality (usually shortened to extrality, or just XT). Within the port’s boundaries – referred to as the XT line – local law and political authority are not in force" (GT:SP 7).

"Imperial starports receive their “core” operating funds from the SPA itself. (These funds come from Imperial taxes, which benefit from the increased trade generated by the Imperial starport system, which explains why the Imperium eagerly operates starports “at a loss.”) Other Imperial services (notably the navy) may grant appropriations or subsidies on an individual or even systemwide basis. Local governments also can subsidize Imperial ports" (GT:SP 9).

It's not hard to imagine Cornpone IV begging the SPA to upgrade it's Class C starport. "We're sorry, but the latest economic forecasts from the IISS show no significant need for a Class B port in your system."

"The High Council of Cornpone IV has authorized me to offer a planetary subsidy of 60% of the costs of any upgrades."

"Indeed? Well, do you have a favored name for your future Class B starport?"

 

[Whipsnade]

But, Fly, I need a reference for your statement. I have been assuming that the starport is typically built, maintained, owned and operated by the world.

Ford's Skyport Authority article from the dead tree version of JTAS? Or was that a variant?

Wait a minute... weary wetware working...

JTAS #7, Champa Interstellar Starport by Loren K. Wiseman, page 12, first paragraph:

The major portion of the starport is surounded by a 3 meter high loose weave wire cyclone fence, demarking the limit of lmperial extraterritoriality (often shortened to extrality). The region inside this fence is under direct lmperial authority, and local planetary laws do not apply.

The article goes on to talk about how goods can be purchased without duty, taxes are limited to a "small" Imperial income tax (!!!), and violator of local laws can find usually find sanctuary from repressive regimes although Champa doesn't count as one.

 

[aramis]

When stating the "operational boundary" between COACC (planetary army) forces and the planetary navy, MT's COACC supplement has the local world responsible out to 100D from the main world and the Imperium responsible for the rest.

Of course that open several other cans of worms...



Yup, mentioned in AHL and SMC.



Unless those with psionics are working for them. Implied fairly often from CT on and flatly stated in TNE's RSB.



More like professional lingo among mercenaries rather than an explicit Imperial edict, proscription, etc. Being vague allows the Imperium to intervene when it wants to do so. More importantly, being vague allows the Imperium not to intervene when it cannot.



In CT's TTA, Wolblutn(?) is more worried about being fingered for attacking the scout/courier than being fingered for using nukes in that attack.

Also, given nukes' well documented advantage in HG2 combat, denying their use by planetary, duchy, reserve, and other such naval forces would be a huge handicap. Especially considering how much the Imperium depends on such forces.

It's a shame Hans is no longer with us...

Actually, shared jurisdiction from 10D to 100D.

 

[Whipsnade]

Actually, shared jurisdiction from 10D to 100D.

Serves me right for not digging it out...

Anyway, shared planetary-Imperial navy jurisdiction between 10D and 100D "proves" that planetary governments do not "own" their entire systems.

 

[GypsyComet]

The Imperial Noble estates described in T5 imply a great deal about starports, but state little explicitly other than the "frequent" placement of starports on Imperial land.

 

[robject]

Ouch. Call me schooled.

Despite this fact showing up in multiple places, I don't remember seeing it. Maybe I've forgotten it.

 

[welsh]

It's not clear to me that the Navy is required or indeed allowed to patrol particular systems ....

To me, this illustrates how thoroughly messed up the whole idea of the Imperium has become. The Imperium exists (supposedly) for the purpose of making space safe for trade. And the space that really matters is relatively tiny, extending out to 100D, where traders jump.

Yet here we have the conflicting idea that the Imperium is somehow not responsible for, or not allowed to, patrol that space.

Let's bear in mind that (a) Imperial law supersedes planetary law, and (b) only the Emperor makes laws.

Is this idea that the Imperium may not be allowed to patrol its member systems becoming more plausible? I don't think it makes sense.

Are we putting the cart before the horse? The first thing that needs to be sorted out is the nature of the relationship between the Imperium and its member worlds.

 

[mike wightman]

The third Imperium needs to be stripped back to basics and then re-imaged, with questions like this answered from the world go.

Marc's OTU as described in his novel is quite different to the OTU that 77 CT described