mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Maximum ship size is limited by computer in CT HG2 - even for planetoid hulls.
Would they keep that classification for the next 3000 years?
Would they keep that classification for the next 3000 years?
Alternatives to 'standard' ship type nomenclature?
- Thread starter agorski
- Start date
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Certainly. But there is little reason to go over 1900 dT unless you want to field a spinal, so that is no major limitation?
I was implying planetoids have more armour (and less agility at TL 8+).
For how long was the classical mediterranean galley used, and still classified as a galley?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I still have a Junk.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Carthaginians etc. had lots of different names for their various classes of galley.
Calling a ship a galley is like calling a ship a sailboat or a steamer - it is not a ship class.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I'll take your word for it. In Swedish they're all called galley.
To change the classification we need a major technological or cultural change. When we introduce jump drives or spinals we should see new classifications. The classifications are unlikely to survive the Long Night.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Even Starfleet reached back to historical terms to describe their ships.
Though either the Romulans or the Klingons got Bird of Prey.
Though either the Romulans or the Klingons got Bird of Prey.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
On galleys...
These replaced the earlier ramming oared warship somewhere around the 14th or 15th Century in narrow waters like the Mediterranean and Baltic. Before that, the galley was generally called by terms that described the number of banks of oars it carried.
The later type galley and galleass were somewhat different ships. The both could be lateen rigged and the galleass was sometimes square rigged.
The later ship was generally much larger than a galley and was of merchant derivation, sort of an armed merchant cruiser of its day.
Galleys were never seen as a substitute for sailing ship with cannon, but rather a supplement in narrow waters. They often were only used in fair weather and often just defensively near their home ports as it was difficult to keep one at sea for any long period as they lacked room for provisions for their large crews.
Galleys tended to be smaller than sailing warships and much more poorly armed in terms of cannon or other projectile weapons. In the 18th century attempts were made, particularly around the Baltic, to build oared types that were closer to small sailing ships like barks or brigs.
Two typical ones were the turuma and bemmema. These used oars on the upper deck (weather deck) above the gun deck allowing for a more or less normal cannon broadside mounting to be used.
By the beginning end of the 18th Century larger oared warships had all but disappeared from use. The use of smaller gunboats mounting one or two cannon persisted afterwards however.
These replaced the earlier ramming oared warship somewhere around the 14th or 15th Century in narrow waters like the Mediterranean and Baltic. Before that, the galley was generally called by terms that described the number of banks of oars it carried.
The later type galley and galleass were somewhat different ships. The both could be lateen rigged and the galleass was sometimes square rigged.
The later ship was generally much larger than a galley and was of merchant derivation, sort of an armed merchant cruiser of its day.
Galleys were never seen as a substitute for sailing ship with cannon, but rather a supplement in narrow waters. They often were only used in fair weather and often just defensively near their home ports as it was difficult to keep one at sea for any long period as they lacked room for provisions for their large crews.
Galleys tended to be smaller than sailing warships and much more poorly armed in terms of cannon or other projectile weapons. In the 18th century attempts were made, particularly around the Baltic, to build oared types that were closer to small sailing ships like barks or brigs.
Two typical ones were the turuma and bemmema. These used oars on the upper deck (weather deck) above the gun deck allowing for a more or less normal cannon broadside mounting to be used.
By the beginning end of the 18th Century larger oared warships had all but disappeared from use. The use of smaller gunboats mounting one or two cannon persisted afterwards however.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Depends on what you wanted to use it for, and if the opposition managed to find a counter for it.
The Viking longships had dual propulsion, which meant you didn't have to rely on the winds to get where you wanted to go, and since it 's a raiding party, you have excess manpower available.
Though I don't see a whole bunch of Marines pedalling madly on exercises bikes able to generate the required energy you'd need for the jump drive to initiate a transition.
The Viking longships had dual propulsion, which meant you didn't have to rely on the winds to get where you wanted to go, and since it 's a raiding party, you have excess manpower available.
Though I don't see a whole bunch of Marines pedalling madly on exercises bikes able to generate the required energy you'd need for the jump drive to initiate a transition.
An alternate approach, modeled after the USAF aircraft designations
A: Attack aircraft (targets stations and capital vessels)
B: Bomber (Targets ground targets)
C: Transport (Cargo)
E: Special electronic installation
F: Fighter (Targets sub-capital)
K: Tanker
O: Observation (Forward Space Control)
P: Patrol
R: Reconnaissance
T: Trainer
U: Utility
W: Warship - any capital ship
X: Special research
Mission modifiers
A: Attack
B: Bomber
C: Civilian
D: Defensive (monitor)
E: Escort (Escorts ships)
F: Fighter
G: Ground Assault (Troop landing)
L: Landable (can land)
M: Mixed Passengers and Cargo
O: Offensive (J3+ M4+)
P: Passenger design
Q: hidden weapons
R: Recon
S: Scout
T: Troop (has signigicant troop assets)
V: Carrier (carries smaller craft)
X: Science
Y: Experimental
Size prefixes:
H: Huge
L: Large
S: Small
V: Very Small
I'm thinking of using this for an ATU next year. Mid-ship universe... Jump Drives require a singular flawless part, which is thus TL limited to just how big it can be (and thus a Bk2 like paradigm), and a similar such part for the reactionless drives... hence capital ships running up to about 10KTd at TL15
Each sequence is sequentially numbered
So the Gazelle becomes an AE (Attack Escort), and the streamlined variant is an AEL .
A Type R is SCLM (Small Cargo Landable Mixed); the Akerut Type J becomes the LCL (Large Cargo Landable). The M is a CM something; a streamlined version would be CML, and a Troop version with Drop Troops would be a CMG (Medium Cargo mixed payload Ground Assault), if it follows them down, CMGL (Medium Cargo Mixed Ground assault Landable)...
A: Attack aircraft (targets stations and capital vessels)
B: Bomber (Targets ground targets)
C: Transport (Cargo)
E: Special electronic installation
F: Fighter (Targets sub-capital)
K: Tanker
O: Observation (Forward Space Control)
P: Patrol
R: Reconnaissance
T: Trainer
U: Utility
W: Warship - any capital ship
X: Special research
Mission modifiers
A: Attack
B: Bomber
C: Civilian
D: Defensive (monitor)
E: Escort (Escorts ships)
F: Fighter
G: Ground Assault (Troop landing)
L: Landable (can land)
M: Mixed Passengers and Cargo
O: Offensive (J3+ M4+)
P: Passenger design
Q: hidden weapons
R: Recon
S: Scout
T: Troop (has signigicant troop assets)
V: Carrier (carries smaller craft)
X: Science
Y: Experimental
Size prefixes:
H: Huge
L: Large
S: Small
V: Very Small
| V | S | — | L | H | ||
| A | Attack | 20-50 | 50-100 | 100-500 | 500-1000 | 1000-2000 |
| B | Bomber | 20-50 | 50-100 | 100-500 | 500-1000 | 1000-2000 |
| C | Transport | 100-200 | 200-500 | 500-1500 | 1500-5000 | 1000-2000 |
| E | EW | 100-200 | 200-500 | 500-1000 | 1000-5000 | 5000+ |
| F | Fighter | 20-50 | 50-100 | 100-500 | 500-1000 | 1000-2000 |
| K | Tanker | <100 | 100-500 | 500-2000 | 2000-8000 | 8000+ |
| L | Lander | 20-50 | 50-100 | 100-500 | 500-1000 | 1000-2000 |
| O | Observation | <100 | 100-200 | 200-500 | 500-1000 | 1000+ |
| P | Patrol | <100 | 100-200 | 200-500 | 500-1000 | 1000+ |
| R | Reconnaissance | <100 | 100-200 | 200-500 | 500-1000 | 1000+ |
| T | Trainer | <100 | 100-200 | 200-500 | 500-1000 | 1000+ |
| U | Utility | <100 | 100-200 | 200-500 | 500-1000 | 1000+ |
| W | Warship | 1000-3000 | 3000-5000 | 5000-8000 | 8000-10000 | 10000+ |
| X | Special research | <100 | 100-500 | 500-1500 | 1500-5000 | 5000+ |
I'm thinking of using this for an ATU next year. Mid-ship universe... Jump Drives require a singular flawless part, which is thus TL limited to just how big it can be (and thus a Bk2 like paradigm), and a similar such part for the reactionless drives... hence capital ships running up to about 10KTd at TL15
Each sequence is sequentially numbered
So the Gazelle becomes an AE (Attack Escort), and the streamlined variant is an AEL .
A Type R is SCLM (Small Cargo Landable Mixed); the Akerut Type J becomes the LCL (Large Cargo Landable). The M is a CM something; a streamlined version would be CML, and a Troop version with Drop Troops would be a CMG (Medium Cargo mixed payload Ground Assault), if it follows them down, CMGL (Medium Cargo Mixed Ground assault Landable)...
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Aramis,
So Kinunir is WOV? Is that correct?
So Kinunir is WOV? Is that correct?
Close.
Actually, size is a prefix... VWO. (Very Small Warship Offensive)
then a sequential number by type...
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
So random Colonial cruiser Arblegarble would be VWO ###
I like it. Descriptive, flexible, clear.
Edit: Unless I missed it, you should probably note somewhere the size modifier comes first
That is the meaning of "Prefix"...
It would be CS Arglebargle (VWO-34 Class) or Arglebargle (VWO-34), and if shorthanding by construction number, VWO-34#27, and her sister ships are Arglebeagle (VWO-34 class #28) and Barglenargle (VWO-34#29).
It's a class descriptor number, not an individual ship number, but you can add the individual hull number after in shorthand... VWO34#27 is the Arglebargle... the replacement for it in inventory with the uprated d-model is VWO34d#192
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Snippety snip.
This is an excellent piece of work. Just a though, it can be customised to just about any bespoke setting.
I'm considering possible modifications too, such as:
mix in some of the naval terms in place of some of the air force ones
mix in some Third Imperialisms eg Capital for large warship, Siege for planetary bombardment ship that sort of thing.
It's actually worse than you suggest; I believe that in a lot of cases, "once a [shiptype], always a [shiptype]" - which means that if the Arglebargle was built as a "cruiser", and is still in commission, it's still a "cruiser", even though modern ships of that size and gunpower are now called "frigates", and a "cruiser" has twice the gunpower and three times the displacement, or whatever.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
No, ships can get officially recategorized.
The British did it, I think twice last century, and the Americans after the Great War, after the Great Patriotic War, and I think again in the Seventies.
The British did it, I think twice last century, and the Americans after the Great War, after the Great Patriotic War, and I think again in the Seventies.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
I believe that is new construction designations, which is what the previous poster meant.
After all, an Iowa class Battleship is still a Battleship and not a missile cruiser despite the tomahawk refits.
