1248 Book Update

[daryen]

Well, as CoE was never canon in the first place, it can hardly be "plowed under". (DGP was - and still is - canon.)

Also, realize that BotF is focused on the Fourth Imperium. The other surrounding powers will be painted in broad strokes, as necessary to tell the Fourth Imperium's story, but will not be detailed to any great degree.

As such, if you want to have a failed CoE in YTU, it shouldn't be too hard to insert. But MJD has been pretty clear up to this point that there is no CoE (in whole or in part) in BotF.

 

[William]

Originally posted by daryen:
Well, as CoE was never canon in the first place, it can hardly be "plowed under". (DGP was - and still is - canon.)

Ah, but _is_ DGP still canon? Does any item that appears under DGP copyright appear on any of Marc's lists? If it is still canon, why are SJG authors (at least) told not to use any DGP copyright material _unless_ it can also be found in GDW copyright materials?

While it is not, for a number of reasons, as explicit as the decanonization of Paranoia Press or Judges Guild, the effect is very much the same. Due to copyright confusions the exquisite Kieth materials in MTJ4 (that is owned by GDW) were not used in the developement of the AR book on the K'kree - though T20 has somewhat rectified that issue.

It's never that black and white, even in deep space... A little wiggle room is not that much to ask for, I'd think.

William

 

[Erik Boielle]

Pah!

You argue Trivialities!

The true question is

Will Star Viking Longships carry Dragon Heads?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul_gylyan.boielle/clipper.jpg

 

[mike wightman]

Ah, but _is_ DGP still canon?

According to Hunter it is , read his reply here

 

[William]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Ah, but _is_ DGP still canon?

According to Hunter it is , read his reply here </font>[/QUOTE]And the practical difference between "officially" and where we sit today is

?

It's not that big a thing really, so perhaps I should simply let it rest there. G'night all.

William

 

[Nathan Brazil]

On a gut emotional level I did not like the religious turn the Solomani received in COE. That being said, I did not mind the DGP Space Nazi era. I am not adverse to the Solomoni being "loonies" in as long as they are exquisitely detailed, or deity's sake, fun.

Thanks for the reply MJD. Oh, and where do I sign up?

BTW keep the aliens with red and white fur hats. *wink*

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Rupert:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:

While I stand in awe of Mr. Hale's work; one cannot help but totally respect the time, effort, creativity, and thought that went into crafting the CoE Setting, I am also glad that the CoE will not be part of Traveller's Canon. The CoE prospect of Earth becoming home to yet another cast of outright loonies saddened me.

I totally agree with you on this (all of it). I saw the TNE period as a fine opportunity to have the Terrans re-build the trade union of the pre-3I period (or something inspired by it), but this time to do more with it than just build a comfortable little realm for themselves. </font>[/QUOTE]I've long had the notion that Terra would become a haven of pro-Imperial sentiment in the wake of the Rebellion.

Think about it. Things have quieted down on Terra. The Imperial occupation is getting less and less onerous. Home rule was given back to Terra in 1110. Except for a small lunatic fringe, everybody is enjoying life under the Imperium. And then the Solomani fleets arrive...

Now, do you think the Powers That Be on Home is going to turn over the reins of the movement to the people of Terra? Somehow I doubt it. I think that life on Terra up until the arrival of the Virus is going to be one long witch-hunt, carefully designed to give the boys at Home an excuse to keep Terra out of the loop.

I think the post-Virus survivors is going to think of the Solomani Movement as the second worst thing that ever happened to Terra and look back on the Imperial occupation with rose-colored nostalgia.


Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
------------
In my opinion it ought to go without saying that if you work in another person's universe, he and anyone else authorized to work in said universe is implicitly permitted to use your work as background material. But I know it doesn't, so I hereby give my permission for Marc Miller and anyone else authorized to work in the Traveller Universe to use the above as background material.

 

[DED]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Ah, but _is_ DGP still canon?

According to Hunter it is , read his reply here </font>[/QUOTE]It hasn't been officially decanonized. Unfortunately, it's been unofficially labelled as "Forbidden Canon" and will remain so until a certain owner of DGP's copywright stops butting heads with MM.

Of course future developments at QLI or other MM sanctioned developers could eventually render it irrelevant.

 

[kafka47]

Granted that DGP is forbidden canon and it stands that all of GDW is canon.

If you look at the Regency Sourcebook and the last MT adventure, it is filled with references to DGP products. Now, MWM is going to rule them out, that would also invalidate a certain portion of the TNE, which MWM insists is canon.

So, unless, we count the new era starts with the 1248 Milieu (afterall, Marc has left it very vague by merely calling it the Virus era in T4). We are left with large holes that cannot be patched over without reproachment between "the name that dares not be said" and MWM.

Granted the whole thing bogs down to money and stubbornness of each party. Why can't there be a third party who willing to find some sort of compromise...

 

[TheDS]

I think the problem is that one person believes the franchise is worth a billion dollars a day (exact figures may not be exact) and the other one is simply unable to convince him that it's really closer to a thousand dollars (again, exact figures are not necessarily exact).

My cousin has a hard time with independent thought, unless it involves aggrevating some one (usually me).

Given that a die-roll has a 20% odds of success, how many, and what kind, and what results, should you use? Well, the book answer was to roll 1D100 (in the form of two D10) and results from 01-20 meant success. I and 2 other people tried to argue to him that he need only roll a single D10 and that 0-1 would represent the exact same 20% chance.

After about half an hour, I finally gave up. He refused to see that it was the exact same odds. Even after he agreed that flipping a coin gave you a 50/50 chance of getting heads, and that 0-4 on a D10 also constituted 50%, and that 01-50 also constituted 50%, he would not make the conclusion that 00-49 was just as valid as 0-4 as tails.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by kafka47:
If you look at the Regency Sourcebook and the last MT adventure, it is filled with references to DGP products. Now, MWM is going to rule them out, that would also invalidate a certain portion of the TNE, which MWM insists is canon.

Unless I am remembering things wrong, the issue is not all the things that DGP has published, but the things that only DGP has published.

Therefore, if something has appeared under both GDW and DGP copyrights, even in different publications, then it is fair game. The problems only arise when something only appears under DGP copyright.

So, everything that appears in, say, the Regency Sourcebook is fair game, regardless of where a particular idea or "fact" originated.

 

[Elliot]

Following Mr Rancke's views - there is some hint in Survival Margin (from TNS) that the Solomani were cracking at the seams - the Joshua Dahvin plotline is of the liberal Solomani economics minister developing a pan-sophontist party based on those species that originated from Earth (Solomani Humans, Vargr, Dolphins, Cymbeline chips).

Dahvin was at Cymbeline a few weeks before it was nuked = That's why TNS hinted the Solomani had done it. Of course, it was a red herring.

Dahvin's powerbase was Earth = so the Nazi Solomani may have been in Alderbaran but the liberal, nearer to Imperial solomani were on Earth. That links in with Imperial values minus the nobles.

The TNE rulebook also states somewhere that Earth recovered quicker because its libraries all it to reverse engineer and build technology from scratch.

So all in all i'm glad the COE have bit the dust and wait to see the new Terrans!!!

(sorry for regular readers of my posts - i've banged on about this before)

 

[Flynn]

Martin,

For the sake of discussion (as well as the purposes of planning a 4I/1248 campaign once the material is available for playtesting or general use), what section of space will become the general "developed" region for this particular product line?

Originally, TNE focused on the both the Regency and the Reformation Coalition. Will 1248 Product Development continue to focus in these regions, or will the attention of milieu development shift to the Fourth Imperium locale?

I assume that the new 4I will be based in the area of "the border of Zarushgar, Ilelish and Gushemege sectors" from the comments listed on the TNE page on the Far Future website:

"The Fourth Imperium

Founded at the border of Zarushgar, Ilelish and Gushemege sectors, the Fourth Imperium represented a settling of differences between the Strephon and Dulinor factions. Its expansion was slow and patchy, with islands of worlds declaring for the 4th Imperium here and there, separated by regions of wilds."

Then again, assumption is not necessarily a good thing. I am curious as to how much of these three sectors will be occupied by what will be the Fourth Imperium. An interesting campaign concept for exploring this milieu might be a world outside the borders of the 4I, which makes contact with the reformed Imperium and begins interaction with the interstellar polity.

Also, will the new sourcebook provided a detailed method, similar to that found in Hard Times, for converting older UWP data (say, from the Second Survey era) into UWPs appropriate for a T1248 campaign?

Thanks in advance for your time,
Flynn

 

[MJD]

The book focuses on a domain sized region (Gushemege, Dagudashaag, Ilelish and Zarushagar), and it 4I-centric.

It does include details of how to determine changes in world stats from 1130-1200-1248 levels.

 

[MJD]

we have someopne working on just such an adventure...

 

[MJD]

Disregard referenmces to Dulinor faction. Ilelish is a wasteland.

 

[Flynn]

Thanks, Martin.

I appreciate the feedback. This will give me a chance to at least get some idea of the region and perhaps gather some thoughts before starting the 4I campaign next month.

(Figure my group can always start small and stay local, until the info becomes available.)

Thanks,
Flynn

 

[MJD]

Hunter tells me we're going to go ahead withthe playtest very soon. There should be some info for those who want it within a few days, I hope.

 

[mike wightman]

You mean there are some who don't

 

[Flynn]

In the immortal words of schoolchildren everywhere:

"Pick me! Pick me! Oooo, ooo, ooo, pick me!"

Thanks, Martin. We're looking forward to the opportunity.

Enjoy,
Flynn