2009 PBEM Trillion Credit Squadron Tournament

[far-trader]

Heh, for me the last time was the 80s I'm learning it all over again.

Say, I thought I had a more recent version of HGS around here somewhere (haven't tracked it down yet though so I'm not sure).

Anyway, besides the version listed in this thread not saving properly (for me anyway, not always just most of the time so it's probably something I'm doing wrong) I can't seem to get it to allow missile bays. Anyone else find that? Yes, the ship size was adequate, it allowed other bay weapons, just not missiles, hang on...

OK, figured I'd fire it up quick and check again. Now it works :nonono: So some bug somewhere that locked them out before, maybe for selecting turret missiles and then dropping them and trying to go with a missile bay. Oh well, just another bug to work around...

 

[OIT]

.. that'd be everyone playing three games simulataneously. Is that okay with everyone?

That's fine.

I agree with waiting until Round 2, or beyond, to introduce house rules.

When we do go to house rules, one I'd like to suggest is the critical hit house rule that changes a "if the ship does not have the system in question, treat as no result" to "if the ship does not have the system in question, take the next higher result (visually, lower die roll) on the critical hit table". For example, if a ship takes a critical hit, said hit is rolled as "screen destroyed" but the ship has no screens, then it would become "maneuver drive detsroyed" rather than no result.

 

[Ron Gianti]

Anyway, besides the version listed in this thread not saving properly (for me anyway, not always just most of the time so it's probably something I'm doing wrong) I can't seem to get it to allow missile bays. Anyone else find that? Yes, the ship size was adequate, it allowed other bay weapons, just not missiles, hang on...

I have not had that problem, missile bays seem to work fine.

I have noticed that it doesn't seem to agree with HG about computer size though. HG says the max computer at TL10 is 4, which should also impose a max ship size of 4,000 tons. HGS correctly imposes a max 4 computer, but allows ships beyond the Level 4 computer which should be 4k.

Can anyone confirm or do I misunderstand? This should not affect either of our current tournaments, but may cause us double check some other factors too.

 

[far-trader]

Yep, I think a small misreading

A model/4 is required at 10,000tons but is sufficient up to 50,000tons at which point a model/5 is required.

It's worded as a ship size requires a minimum of computer model if that makes it clearer. So a ship size K (10,000tons) requires a minimum computer model/4 and the next break is ship size P (50,000tons) and requires a minimum computer model/5. So anything from (including) 10,000tons and up to (but not including) 50,000tons needs a minimum computer model/4.

 

[Bob Weaver]

We're staying the same just so people can have a clue of the dynamics before we start (thanks to the test match).

Wow... with 4 players, that'd be almost a real tournament!

With a round robin... that'd be everyone playing three games simulataneously. Is that okay with everyone?

(Also... we'll probably wait until after the holidays to start the shooting, etc.)

That sounds good to me! And again, we don't have to use the relative agility rule, or any 'house rules'. As much as I enjoy twiddling with HG2 to "improve" parts, hashing out which rules to use would seriously impede actually playing.
Three games simultaneously - does that mean we need to have three fleets ready to go, or would we use the same one against all three opponents? That could get confusing.

Cheers,

Bob W.
Waiting for the shooting to start . . .

 

[BillDowns]

If the other players don't mind, I'd like to join in. I'll work on my fleet this weekend and email to you, Jeffr0.

far-trader - PM sent.....

Y'all have a Happy Holidays out there

 

[BillDowns]

I've been re-acquainting myself with HGS, and poring dligently through the combat example. I do have a question, though, is armor being allowed on small craft?

Since that step is left out of the small craft checklist and discussion, I always took that to mean armor was not allowed.....

 

[far-trader]

I've been re-acquainting myself with HGS, and poring dligently through the combat example. I do have a question, though, is armor being allowed on small craft?

Since that step is left out of the small craft checklist and discussion, I always took that to mean armor was not allowed.....

Interesting take on it. I'd never looked at it that way and come to think now the Fighter examples in the 1st printing of HG all had no armour (which I thought odd).

Hmm, the Gig example in the 2nd printing of HG has no armour either (I could have sworn it did).

Curiouser and curiouser, even the Rampart fighters of the AHL have no armour. And again I could have sworn they always did.

Now I have to think there are no canon examples of small craft being armoured o:

You may have stumbled on a real "so you think you know Traveller" rule interpretation there. One with huge ramifications.

I'll wait for someone to come along and remind me now where such and such a small craft has armour in CT canon

Pleeease. Otherwise I have to agree, small craft can't mount armour and that's a huge change. Hmm, maybe TCS clarifies that, not that I recall but maybe I missed it.

 

[far-trader]

Related to the small craft armour rules and as a preview of possible house rules I saw a good one on the CT (?) yahoo list the other week.

The lamentation was why is a TL15 Fighter (some 10tons) with armor factor 15 as tough as a TL15 Monitor (some 500,000tons) with armour factor 15?

The solution was (something like, going from memory here) basically armour is an added factor. Added to the size code of the vessel. So a 10ton Fighter (size code 0) with armour factor 15 is total hull strength (remember the old ship data form notation) of 0 + 15 = 15. While the 500,000ton Monitor (size code V = 29) with armour factor 15 is total hull strength of 29 + 15 = 44. Nearly 3 times as hard as that Fighter.

 

[BillDowns]

Question I have now is how to calculate crew sizing for a 200-ton Boat. HGS gives you the option of Book 2 or Book 5, so which should I use?

 

[BillDowns]

Re: House Rules for Fighters

If fighters are desired to be more effective, and I am indifferent really, what I think would work is to add a new combat range: close or point-blank (or knife ??).

1. Vessels would have to spend at least 2 turns in Short Range before entering.

2. Spinal Mounts are ineffective.

3. Bay Weapons are DM-6 to Hit.

4. Smallcraft are DM+6 to hit.

5. Missles retain the DM-1 to hit.

Just a thought.....

 

[far-trader]

Question I have now is how to calculate crew sizing for a 200-ton Boat. HGS gives you the option of Book 2 or Book 5, so which should I use?

Hmm, does it let you chose Book 5 crewing for ships 1000tons and smaller? I thought the option was there for the purpose of making Book 2 crew calculations for ships over 1000tons.

Even if it does I think we should use Book 2 crewing for small ships, that's the HG rule. And usually it'll be a smaller crew as a bonus. Check out the section with crew though, you can still add "other" crew for utility (or to round out to 10 crew for boarding action DMs) and "marines" for even better boarding action DMs.

 

[OIT]

BCS Round One Design

Jeffr0,

PM sent with my BCS Round One "fleet".

All,

On the subject of small craft armor, I seem to recall the 50ton fighter in Supplement 9 carrying armor, but don't have the reference handy to check. Perhaps someone else could verify?

The crew rule in book 5 allows book two crews for ships of 1000tons or less, inclusive. HGS software seems to be written in accordance with the rules.

 

[rancke]

Hmm, does it let you chose Book 5 crewing for ships 1000tons and smaller? I thought the option was there for the purpose of making Book 2 crew calculations for ships over 1000tons.

HG is fully capable of adjudicating every aspect of ship-building and operation down to the smallest size. My guess is that the Book 2 option is there to grandfather all the Book 2 designs that had been published by then. This was not, IMO, a good idea, since there are major discrepancies between Book 2 and Book 5 designs. I'd strongly advice against mixing the two.

Just my opinion, of course.



Hans

 

[far-trader]

All,

On the subject of small craft armor, I seem to recall the 50ton fighter in Supplement 9 carrying armor, but don't have the reference handy to check. Perhaps someone else could verify?

Yep you're correct, the 50ton (troop transport actually) vessel in S9 does have armor. So we have (at least) one canon small craft with armor (and it's not a fighter) vs several canon small craft (that are fighters) that don't have armor and a rule that seems to say they shouldn't. I'm still unconvinced either way

 

[BillDowns]

Sent off my BCS ship.......far-trader, ready for a thumpin' ???

 

[far-trader]

Sent off my BCS ship.......far-trader, ready for a thumpin' ???

Yes, shiney new design ready to be blown to bits

I was reworking my original entry but there were issues, and then the whole new wrinkle on fighter armour came along :nonono:

Luckily I had worked up a backup design last week. It's ready to go, I'll send it off before I head out but I won't be able to play before Saturday probably, gonna be busy and on the road until then at least. Then I should have a few days to play.

I was just goofing off with some deckplans for my new design. This time I'm not kidding, I really am making deckplans for it. About half or better done, functional but not pretty (like some would do), mostly to get the layout in my head so I can maybe do them up 3D in SketchUp sometime. I'm trying a new twist this time, partly inspired by Crow's fast and loose suggestion, and using the Supplement 7 deckplan rules fudge bonus. Having lots of corridor space to play with helps immensely.

Guess I'll post up the design tonight and get it off to Jeff asap.

Are we all posting them here too (spoiler blocked for honest players) for the enjoyment of others? Maybe they could even start a pool or bet Imperial Credits on who will win...

 

[far-trader]

Woof!

Run you cowardly pink whelps! Make the chase interesting and we may let you keep your pitiful lives...

No peeking (unless you're not playing)

Spoiler:

Ship: Bad Wolf (1 of 4 - Blaidd Drwg, Schlechter Wolf, Mauvais Loup)

Architect: Dan "Far-Trader" Burns

USP      EX-3433562-240000-30002-0  TL: 12                        
B B                  1     1   1
Bat                  1     1   1

USP      EX-4422562-240000-30002-0  with drop tanks
 
Cargo: 15 Tons, Frozen Watch: 1, Fuel: 105 Tons, EP: 15, Agility: 2
Crew: 10, Marines: 10

Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification and Drop Tank Fittings

Detailed Description:

HULL
300 tons standard, Close Structure Configuration, Partially Streamlined

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 3 Engineers, Medic, 3 Gunners, 10 Marines, 1 Other 

ENGINEERING
Jump-3, 3G Maneuver, Power plant-5, 15EP, Agility 2, without drop tanks

Jump-2, 2G Maneuver, Power plant-5, 15EP, Agility 2, with drop tanks

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/6 Computer: Maneuver Evade 1, Navigate, Generate, Jump 1, Jump 2,
Jump 3, Target, Launch

HARDPOINTS
3 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
1 Triple Missile Turret organized into 1 Battery (Factor-2)
1 Triple Beam Laser Turret organized into 1 Battery (Factor-3)

DEFENCES
1 Triple Sandcaster Turret organized into 1 Battery (Factor-4)
Armoured Hull (Factor-2)

FUEL
105 Tons Fuel (3 parsecs jump range and 28 days endurance)
90 Tons Drop Tanks (3 parsecs jump range if dropped)

MISCELLANEOUS
10.0 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 15 Tons Cargo

COST
MCr291.432 Initially plus MCr2.914 Architect’s fees
MCr233.146 in Quantity, Squadron total cost MCr993.784

CONSTRUCTION TIME
71 Weeks Initially, 57 Weeks in Quantity

Deckplans are done first draft, no key (largely self evident elements) or profile but I'll post a link to them as is shortly.

 

[far-trader]

Started a new thread for discussion of my design and the deckplans:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=17867

 

[OIT]

Small Craft Armor

Dan,
check out page 26 of Adventure 5 (TCS), step 8 of the small craft design checklist. Seems fairly explicit to me.