Flykiller... I strongly disagree with your viewpoint about risk in this industry. In other publishing sectors, when a startup magazine fails to pay writers, there are legal channels and pressure groups that get used. They apply here too. Same industry, same standards. And yet the fanboy thing happens.
2320AD
- Thread starter Colin
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In General:
Hunter has paid for a manuscript. He owns it. He owns that 2320 book whether someone else licenses 2300 or not.
Colin's options are to get a 2300 license from Marc, scrap 2320 and write a new book, or to negotiate a buy-back from QLI for the existing work. I don't see any others.
With my work, it's the other way around. For QLI to publish the players book they need to either make a deal with me for the existing one or write a whole new one that doesn't look too similar. I can't publish the existing one for lack of a T20 license but I DO hold copyright on it. Nobody else can publish it - but they can do a new players book without reference to mine. Of course, that would raise a number of issues, for example the fact that I wrote the thing on the understanding that I'd get paid for it. To just can it would be.... dubious.
I won't be heading any consortiums of fans, thanks. I have too much to do right now, what with my own company and writing for real-world publishers.
Hunter has paid for a manuscript. He owns it. He owns that 2320 book whether someone else licenses 2300 or not.
Colin's options are to get a 2300 license from Marc, scrap 2320 and write a new book, or to negotiate a buy-back from QLI for the existing work. I don't see any others.
With my work, it's the other way around. For QLI to publish the players book they need to either make a deal with me for the existing one or write a whole new one that doesn't look too similar. I can't publish the existing one for lack of a T20 license but I DO hold copyright on it. Nobody else can publish it - but they can do a new players book without reference to mine. Of course, that would raise a number of issues, for example the fact that I wrote the thing on the understanding that I'd get paid for it. To just can it would be.... dubious.
I won't be heading any consortiums of fans, thanks. I have too much to do right now, what with my own company and writing for real-world publishers.
Nope. But he must have a phone and it's not too hard to get someone's phone number (as long as it's done legit). Don't you have something similar to companies house in the US? His contact details must be registered for tax purposes.
I'm suggesting someone with whom he has had a good, trusting work relationship CALL him and hav a verbal conversation with him. We've got nothing else.
M
Malenfant
Guest
(bows to a successful and experienced viewpoint) glad I'm just a hobbyist. good luck with 1248 Mr. Martin J. Dougherty. </font>[/QUOTE]Of course, I've basically been saying the same as MJD (from admittedly much more limited experience, but I still have some at least), but you've just chosen to completely ignore everything I've said here, which is phenomenally rude of you.
Quite how you can sit there smugly saying that people should just "accept the risk" in this industry and that if it all goes down it's their fault for taking that risk, and yet at the same time fawn and grovel at Martin and claim to have respect for what he does is beyond me.
I'm sure you'll just carry on in your own little world regardless, flykiller. It doesn't even sound like you accept that your viewpoint is flawed despite what Martin and myself have said here.
M
Malenfant
Guest
That's what bugs the hell out of me about this situation. Even while this thread was going on, he was posting on the boards about other admin issues. He surely must know this discussion is going on, surely - and that is has been going on in some form or other since he last disappeared. And he must be aware that you've tried to get in touch with him - yet still he doesn't reply.
There's simply no justification for this lack of communication at all.
I notice that he started posting again for 10 days in the middle of September. Then he was around for all of October, then for three days in mid-November, then two days in mid-December, then once on Jan 18th (while this particular incarnation of the general "what news on 2320AD?" thread was going on). He seems to have disappeared again, I guess he won't be back til mid-February given his posting habits?
Mal, please chill, will you? There's no reason to attack folks here.
I think that it is a shame about what has happened to QLI and what so promising about this most recent resurgence of Traveller. Is the story over yet? No, even if it feels like we have a pretty good idea of how things are going to turn out.
Is it a shame that Colin's and Martin's work is stuck with QLI? Yes. Maybe Hunter just is holding out hope that he can bring QLI back around. Maybe he talking with Colin and Martin about releasing the documents would mean that his dream for T20/QLI is dead, and he isn't willing to face that yet. Maybe Hunter is just very depressed and can't face things or function normally. Maybe something else tragic has happened. It's easy to sit and feel like you can judge someone else when you don't know (and, frankly, don't need to know) what they're going through and where they've been. Harder and better to give them the benefit of doubt and kindness.
Really, it doesn't matter why. It's time for most of us (save the people who have a real stake like Colin and Martin) to let go and move on.
Ron
I think that it is a shame about what has happened to QLI and what so promising about this most recent resurgence of Traveller. Is the story over yet? No, even if it feels like we have a pretty good idea of how things are going to turn out.
Is it a shame that Colin's and Martin's work is stuck with QLI? Yes. Maybe Hunter just is holding out hope that he can bring QLI back around. Maybe he talking with Colin and Martin about releasing the documents would mean that his dream for T20/QLI is dead, and he isn't willing to face that yet. Maybe Hunter is just very depressed and can't face things or function normally. Maybe something else tragic has happened. It's easy to sit and feel like you can judge someone else when you don't know (and, frankly, don't need to know) what they're going through and where they've been. Harder and better to give them the benefit of doubt and kindness.
Really, it doesn't matter why. It's time for most of us (save the people who have a real stake like Colin and Martin) to let go and move on.
Ron
I'm not seeing Mal's comments as an attack. More one of those 'about time someone said that' statements that many of us are thinking. While I'd be leery of grand announcements if I were Hunter (life seems to like tripping him up), at present QLI seems to be drifitng with no-one at the helm. That may not be the case but it can seem like that, and it's not good for the business.
From personal experience I can say that Hunter is not a good communicator. Several times during my time with QLI I had to chase him for contact until I got annoyed, at which point I'd have the tired old rant about needing regular and timely contact. He'd agree... and things would improve for a couple of weeks.
Hunter needs to post monthly updates at least, IMO, even if it's just 'things are difficult, but I'm working on this and this right now'.
From personal experience I can say that Hunter is not a good communicator. Several times during my time with QLI I had to chase him for contact until I got annoyed, at which point I'd have the tired old rant about needing regular and timely contact. He'd agree... and things would improve for a couple of weeks.
Hunter needs to post monthly updates at least, IMO, even if it's just 'things are difficult, but I'm working on this and this right now'.
It has been suggested that I lead an attempt to contact Hunter and try to sort things out. I'm sorry, but I will not be doing this.
There are several reasons. One is that I'm too busy right now to do something I don't need to do. For another, I promised myself a while back that I would no longer chase afer Hunter.
My last conversation with Hunter just petered out. He wanted to talk about publishing Homecoming, which was ready to go with Avenger. I sat on the book for another 4 months because of that, but apparently he just lost interest mid discussion or something. Contact just faded out.
Yes, I could pursue it, but why? It's more convenient to publish through Avenger and I make slightly more money, but I was STILL willing to publish through QLI. What I was not willing to do was chase Hunter to try to push the project through. Why go to all that effort in order to make less money? I'd have done it if Hunter wanted, but in the end the silence came down once more.
There are several reasons. One is that I'm too busy right now to do something I don't need to do. For another, I promised myself a while back that I would no longer chase afer Hunter.
My last conversation with Hunter just petered out. He wanted to talk about publishing Homecoming, which was ready to go with Avenger. I sat on the book for another 4 months because of that, but apparently he just lost interest mid discussion or something. Contact just faded out.
Yes, I could pursue it, but why? It's more convenient to publish through Avenger and I make slightly more money, but I was STILL willing to publish through QLI. What I was not willing to do was chase Hunter to try to push the project through. Why go to all that effort in order to make less money? I'd have done it if Hunter wanted, but in the end the silence came down once more.
M
Malenfant
Guest
If that's true, Hunter would be foisting his problems on other people then for no good reason. Hiding from the truth (if that is the truth) doesn't solve anything. He would only be making matters worse for himself by doing that because then other peoples' sympathies for him really will be going out of the window.
Personally, I've given Hunter all the benefit of the doubt I can over the past year and a bit. Heck, I've been one of his most ardent defenders when people have attacked him here and accused him of stealing their money and so on.
But the fact of the matter is that he's let everyone down again. First time he did that was when he just upped and left and made no effort to communicate with anyone for a year, and QLI lost pretty much everything it had built before then. Second time was when he said he was back, yet just fizzled out and nothing further happened. I still don't think there's anything malicious about his absence, I think that it's more likely that there's still too much on his plate for him to deal with and he just isn't able to do so on his own, and for some reason isn't asking for help from anyone.
This needs to end though, sooner rather than later. He needs to face facts and either get things moving somehow and start talking to people again, or officially give up and hand the torch to someone else. The current void of information and action isn't helping anyone at all though.
Hunter no doubt sees it differently, and I'd be willing to talk it out if contact resumed, but so far everything I've done was for lack of contact.
QLI was my job, but after 6 months of silence I pulled my projects in an attempt to make some return on them. That was awkward, but what I just don't understand is why nothing much happened after the return.
I mean, there was a week of arguing over a diffference in opinion about where we now stood, and then silence. Should I have chased Hunter for more contact (again)? Maybe. But why? After a year out of contact, I think I can be forgiven for not choosing to waste more time sending emails into the aether etc.
I would have expected Hunter to want to talk to me a lot. I wrote 90% of the material published by QLI. But no. I don't know why. My inference is that he's pissed at me for departing QLI or something but I just don't know and don't have the inclination to try to find out.
QLI possibly needs me, I don't need QLI. The ball is in Hunter's court and I have better things to do than waste my time pointing at it.
So I'm getting on with my own projects until Hunter gets in touch. I've got used to doing that.
QLI was my job, but after 6 months of silence I pulled my projects in an attempt to make some return on them. That was awkward, but what I just don't understand is why nothing much happened after the return.
I mean, there was a week of arguing over a diffference in opinion about where we now stood, and then silence. Should I have chased Hunter for more contact (again)? Maybe. But why? After a year out of contact, I think I can be forgiven for not choosing to waste more time sending emails into the aether etc.
I would have expected Hunter to want to talk to me a lot. I wrote 90% of the material published by QLI. But no. I don't know why. My inference is that he's pissed at me for departing QLI or something but I just don't know and don't have the inclination to try to find out.
QLI possibly needs me, I don't need QLI. The ball is in Hunter's court and I have better things to do than waste my time pointing at it.
So I'm getting on with my own projects until Hunter gets in touch. I've got used to doing that.
Interestingly, just before Hunter reappeared I offered to publish 2320 through Avenger.
I can't publish T20 materials because Avenger has no license to do so (we were discussing that but...), and the 2320 manuscript belongs to Hunter. But if someone were to obtain a license for 2300 from Marc, and to present me with a manuscript that was not under someone else's copyright, I would be amenable to publishing it.
I can't publish T20 materials because Avenger has no license to do so (we were discussing that but...), and the 2320 manuscript belongs to Hunter. But if someone were to obtain a license for 2300 from Marc, and to present me with a manuscript that was not under someone else's copyright, I would be amenable to publishing it.
M
Malenfant
Guest
That's another sucky thing here - I'm sure someone else could publish 2320AD, but it couldn't be the version that Colin's already done (which to my mind is damn near perfect) because that's locked in with Hunter. 
R
Roger Calver
Guest
Thats the real problem here, Colins 2320AD is (and i agree with Mal on this)the way the timeline should have moved on to.
If it was to be published again by Avenger or anyone else it wouldnt be 2320AD as Colin has written it and then you would have to go back and form a new timeline.
OK it could use any system for its rules but the setting and any possible futures are the issue here, do you want a new version or is 2320AD the way it should be, I would be willing to look at the options on how it could be but 2320AD is near bang on.
Its all a big issue write or dont, and then its publish or leave it in the void as it is ATM.
One word from Hunter could have this all sorted out it not really asking for much to say to him "whats the score here" is it ?
OK im no writer hell im no games company im a gamer and playtester but this situation is starting to bug me as it could be sorted out if Hunters wants it to be, as we have seen by all of the posters here Martin,Colin,Mal,Twillight and the rest of us that 2300AD is viable and wanted.
If it was to be published again by Avenger or anyone else it wouldnt be 2320AD as Colin has written it and then you would have to go back and form a new timeline.
OK it could use any system for its rules but the setting and any possible futures are the issue here, do you want a new version or is 2320AD the way it should be, I would be willing to look at the options on how it could be but 2320AD is near bang on.
Its all a big issue write or dont, and then its publish or leave it in the void as it is ATM.
One word from Hunter could have this all sorted out it not really asking for much to say to him "whats the score here" is it ?
OK im no writer hell im no games company im a gamer and playtester but this situation is starting to bug me as it could be sorted out if Hunters wants it to be, as we have seen by all of the posters here Martin,Colin,Mal,Twillight and the rest of us that 2300AD is viable and wanted.
My logic may be flawed and there are surely nuances that an intellectual property lawyer would pick apart, but here are the thoughts of a layman and 2320AD contributor:
My understanding is that Marc Miller is the ultimate owner of the 2300AD universe and canon. Colin has contributed to the 2300AD universe through developing the events from 2300-2320 and Marc has accepted (or was close to accepting) it as 2300AD canon.
The important thing to note is that the canon developed by Colin should be independent of any one game system or implementation and that a separate product could be created that makes use of the new canon. This is how universes such as Star Wars allow contributions from separate developers to be used for subsequent products, e.g., a new race introduced in a video game can be used later by a novelist.
If Marc accepts Colin's additions to the 2300AD universe, those changes should be able to be licensed for other products, such as a version of 2320AD based on the D20 Future rules, for example.
QLI can choose to move forward or not with a T20-based version of 2320AD, but this shouldn't completely block all future products based on the 2300AD until QLI chooses to publish.
Another thing to keep in mind is that there is a body of work for the 2300AD universe which is not owned by QLI since it was never paid for: interior artwork by Bryan Gibson, Laurent Esmiol and myself; logos and design work; page layout; maps; accurate 3D starmaps and the software which generated them; cover art, etc.
My understanding is that Marc Miller is the ultimate owner of the 2300AD universe and canon. Colin has contributed to the 2300AD universe through developing the events from 2300-2320 and Marc has accepted (or was close to accepting) it as 2300AD canon.
The important thing to note is that the canon developed by Colin should be independent of any one game system or implementation and that a separate product could be created that makes use of the new canon. This is how universes such as Star Wars allow contributions from separate developers to be used for subsequent products, e.g., a new race introduced in a video game can be used later by a novelist.
If Marc accepts Colin's additions to the 2300AD universe, those changes should be able to be licensed for other products, such as a version of 2320AD based on the D20 Future rules, for example.
QLI can choose to move forward or not with a T20-based version of 2320AD, but this shouldn't completely block all future products based on the 2300AD until QLI chooses to publish.
Another thing to keep in mind is that there is a body of work for the 2300AD universe which is not owned by QLI since it was never paid for: interior artwork by Bryan Gibson, Laurent Esmiol and myself; logos and design work; page layout; maps; accurate 3D starmaps and the software which generated them; cover art, etc.
Rhialto the Marvelous
SOC-13
No, on reflection, buying QLI at this point is not a good idea, nosirreebob.
I'm wondering what Marc thinks about all of this? I remember Hunter saying they're in touch regularly, and by way of actual phone calls, no less.
Maybe we should tell him about our grievances, and he can get through to Hunter? Marc actually does communicate with people--I asked him if he still has a 2300AD boxed set for sale yesterday, and he replied within 24 hours (he doesn't). And I am nobody important, just a fan of the game.
Like other people I don't suggest this as a slight against Hunter. But like other people I'd like to know simply what's going on.
I'm wondering what Marc thinks about all of this? I remember Hunter saying they're in touch regularly, and by way of actual phone calls, no less.
Maybe we should tell him about our grievances, and he can get through to Hunter? Marc actually does communicate with people--I asked him if he still has a 2300AD boxed set for sale yesterday, and he replied within 24 hours (he doesn't). And I am nobody important, just a fan of the game.
Like other people I don't suggest this as a slight against Hunter. But like other people I'd like to know simply what's going on.
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