2320AD

[Malenfant]

I wouldn't pre-order myself. I already got burned by QLI doing that - I pre-ordered a hardcopy of 1248 when it was announced to support it and get access to the playtest files (and then later QLI made the files accessible to anyone with a Moot subscription, so I could have saved my money), and then of course QLI went down the pan and I never got anything from them about it.

Martin generously sent me PDF copies of the 1248 files he published under Avenger (thumbs up for him there), but at the end of the day I never got a hardcopy from QLI, and QLI still have about $60 of my money, about $15 of which is for mailing costs which will never be used. And I still want that money back from them.

So you'll forgive me for saying that I'm not trusting another small company anyone with pre-order payments again.

 

[Roger Calver]

Thats a valid point, "once bitten twice shy", if it comes down to it and its a go then I would still be interested as I have seen Colins work with 2320AD, its always an option and it might help the ball rolling but thats just my POV.

 

[Colin]

I wouldn't do a pre-order, myself. Too risky, not just for anyone putting up the cash, but for myself as well. I would assume a liability that I am not prepared to assume.

 

[Roger Calver]

I will go on record here so you can quote me on it.
I you were to make the game and I pre-ordered it and then things went wrong, I would not wish or want ANY kind of refund in any shape or form.
I know the risks and so would be prepared.

 

[ExileInParadise]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
I wouldn't pre-order myself. I already got burned by QLI doing that ... So you'll forgive me for saying that I'm not trusting another small company anyone with pre-order payments again.

Completely understandable. And I agree with not pre-ordering from QLI... I had already expected that QLI has burned too many people's trust in something like that.

Any pre-order is a risk, but most people make an "estimation" of how risky... and their past history and trust with the vendor goes into that estimation. QLI has obviously used, abused, and lost that with people, and I don't see QLI making the effort to undo that perception.

This is why I said things like "if a separate license for 2300 was executed" and some noise about proper management of the process to get a sequel finished.

But, I am *open* to pre-ordering if the *risks* are honestly explained up front where I can agree to them up front, or not.

I look at it this way: my wife *loves* to gamble. I don't. So, when we go gambling, I allocate only so much cash to a "gambling fund" and assume the cash was set on fire before I even leave home. She has to agree that the fund is the maximum amount we will waste on that trip. Once that's negotiated... we go. She is entertained with what I consider a time and money wasting experience, but at least I knew what my total loss was going to be, in advance.

I would pre-order 2300+ under that same thinking: go into it assuming 100% risk of losing the whole cost.

Anytime I order from eBay or other online sites, I have to have the same mindset in place... kiss the money goodbye before you send it. (not literally though, yuck!) I wouldn't be able to prepay for sight unseen goods any other way.

Is a small, risky investment worth it to get a 2300 sequel moving again. I think so, if that is what it takes. Pre-order numbers can be used to measure interest, and show others that there is enough interest to consider taking on the risk as well.

I am volunteering to accept that risk in this case, because I would like to see a sequel done and because I have heard good things about Colin's work.

I don't do this often by the way... only when I really, really want something.

Colin, I hope you can work it out. Please keep us posted.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Colin:
I wouldn't do a pre-order, myself. Too risky, not just for anyone putting up the cash, but for myself as well. I would assume a liability that I am not prepared to assume.

Well, if a headcount matters, count me in for at least one copy of any 2300 sequel. I do hope 2320 AD sees the light of day in some form as I think Colin did a marvelous job on the parts I've already seen.

Tom B

 

[Anthony]

I would generally not do a pre-order for any RPG product. QLI is hardly the only company which has had preorders for a product, then either not put the product out, been vastly delayed, or put out something shoddy. In essence, a preorder is an unsecured loan to the company, and most RPG companies are not good credit risks.

 

[TWILIGHT]

Consider me seconding everything EiP has said:
Copy and paste and add your name to my....

Pre-Order List for all those interested in the possibility!(not assuming anything of course!)

1. Steff.J.Worthington (Twilight)
2. Roger Calver (the same )

 

[MJD]

Avenger Enterprises does not do preorders.

 

[TWILIGHT]

Sorry MJD. Wasnt really doing this to get 2320 from Avenger... was kinda hoping Hunter would see this and may see it as a way out of a financial bind (if that was the reason).

 

[Roger Calver]

That was my thinking to it as 2320 is a QLI product ATM but if that was to change then well....

 

[glorfindelIII]

Pre-ordering is a risk, yes, but - if it would help 2320 see the light of day - I would be willing to risk it if some reasonable criteria were laid out beforehand.

- AlexB

 

[Malenfant]

"reasonable criteria" were laid out for the 1248 preorders too. We thought we'd be getting a hardcopy of the book mailed to us as a result, everything was looking peachy, and then... silence. And so far the guy responsible - despite being back - has made no effort or attempt to get back in touch with people who made the preorders and reunite them with either some/all of their money or a book. Hell, even some form of store credit would be something.

Admittedly Martin releasing 1248 himself through Avenger has complicated things somewhat, but still... I would have hoped that Hunter would have at least refunded postages costs that were paid and never used, or at least talked to people who pre-ordered.

And for all the reasonable criteria that could be there, if the guy you paid just buggers off and doesn't come back for a long time (if ever) then those criteria really won't mean anything anymore.

 

[TWILIGHT]

"reasonable criteria" were laid out for the 1248 preorders too. We thought we'd be getting a hardcopy of the book mailed to us as a result, everything was looking peachy, and then... silence. And so far the guy responsible - despite being back - has made no effort or attempt to get back in touch with people who made the preorders and reunite them with either some/all of their money or a book. Hell, even some form of store credit would be something.

Admittedly Martin releasing 1248 himself through Avenger has complicated things somewhat, but still... I would have hoped that Hunter would have at least refunded postages costs that were paid and never used, or at least talked to people who pre-ordered.

And for all the reasonable criteria that could be there, if the guy you paid just buggers off and doesn't come back for a long time (if ever) then those criteria really won't mean anything anymore.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I totally understand that you feel screwed over mate, really I do. I once paid £90 for a copy of 'conquest of the empire' from Italy that never showed but until Hunter adresses all the problems we've seen and finally manages to sort things out you need to move on brother.
As soon as he reappears for good we'll all make sure you get you're money (or try to) but you need to let it go Mal or all your entries onto this page are gonna include a gripe (justified as it may be) about the cost and postage you've lost. I'm NOT having a go at you.At all. I'm just trying to get you focused on an avenue of debate which is more constructive Mal. (please don't take offense...I truly meant none.)

 

[Roger Calver]

Mal's comments are very justified into the issues that are/have effected QLI and been burned once would put anyone off going down that route again.
ATM all of our comments and ideas into an alternative version are just a debate and until some offical comment is released from who ever into its future we do need to see both sides of the story.
In a perfect world there would have been no problems and so no posts about it, if we say that as it stands the QLI issue is TBA and look at all other avenues into a possible game then this should be the main line of this thread.
Maybe "pre-order" is not the correct term to use in this and so if some other company/person was to release it than maybe an investment would be a more fitting term to use.

 

[MJD]

My understanding is that William (the head man at Comstar) offered Hunter 1248 books at cost for the preorder customers and also offered to pay postage. This was several months back.

There was some discussion but it trailed off and I don't know what the current status is. As far as I know the offer still stands, but I can't say for sure.

I know going solo has complicated things (oh, how...) but the fact is that I have 4 entire books on file that I wrote for QLI and expected to make a return on. I had to do something - that's like working for a year and not getting your salary.

In case I didn't make it clear before, I never got any of the pre-order money. In short, 1248 never made me a bean until it went out through Avenger.

Speaking of those orphaned books, Homecoming is about to release.

 

[MJD]

So... this means that there is still a possibility that the preorder customers will get their books. If and when Hunter gets back up and running, I assume he'll deal with this in due course.

 

[Malenfant]

Oh I didn't say what I said as a complaint that Avenger had published the books, I was merely pointing out that if you pre-order and it goes screwy then you've lost your money, and using my own sour experience here to illustrate it (that said, I'm not going to "get over it" - that's $60 down the pan and not something I'm willing to just write off).

I certainly wouldn't do it again at all - not for anybody or anything - and I would strongly discourage others from doing it too. I guess the only good that came from my pre-order was that it may have contributed to 1248 getting off the ground in the first place.

The real damage is that it totally destroyed my faith in QLI and in Hunter. The response since then from QLI itself has been that of abysmal dereliction - that said, Martin and Avenger did go beyond the call of duty and I'm grateful to them.

 

[Colin]

This is why pre-orders strike me as a bad idea. Talk about major bad press if it goes wrong.

Just to be clear, if I were to somehow get ahold of 2320AD, or some other variation on 2300AD, I would not, under any circumstances, offer a pre-order.

 

[MJD]

I didn't take your comments as an attack Mal; I was just making sure nobody misinterpreted them.