A Brief Timeline of Virus
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
Nice catch, Nathan.
The first recorded mention I have of a specific Far Future milieu is 2009. But yes, Marc has stated that he always had wanted to do FFF. And, he mentioned at least a couple of the concepts found in the BBB in 2007 (e.g. zone of barren worlds).
By the way, that mention in 2009 suggested the year 1350, then skipped ahead to 1600 before October of that same year. So I think Marc started thinking seriously about FFF in 2009.
In September 2010 we briefly talked about year 1500, but June through October we generally worked off of a 1650 assumption. The typical phrase was "1650 or whatever" - the date was still fluid and we knew it.
The name "Galaxiad" first shows up in my mailbox in January 2011.
The year 1902 isn't found in my inbox until June 2012.
The first recorded mention I have of a specific Far Future milieu is 2009. But yes, Marc has stated that he always had wanted to do FFF. And, he mentioned at least a couple of the concepts found in the BBB in 2007 (e.g. zone of barren worlds).
By the way, that mention in 2009 suggested the year 1350, then skipped ahead to 1600 before October of that same year. So I think Marc started thinking seriously about FFF in 2009.
In September 2010 we briefly talked about year 1500, but June through October we generally worked off of a 1650 assumption. The typical phrase was "1650 or whatever" - the date was still fluid and we knew it.
The name "Galaxiad" first shows up in my mailbox in January 2011.
The year 1902 isn't found in my inbox until June 2012.
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Really cool work, Rob. I Wiki'fied it.
The 1248 story is a good one and I think its massively unknown amongst the greater Traveller fan base.
TNE is much better known even if many dislike its science fiction.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
1130 - 1200
I am curious to this span of years. Questions, for me, arise such as:
Q: How fast does Virus spread to distant Sectors, say Knoellighz, Ghoekhnael, Dhuerrorg, Ngathksirz in the Vargr Extents?
Q: Did Virus have a hard time with Vargr operating systems as it did with Aslan Clan systems?
Q: Was Regency the only entity to quarantine or did any polities of the Vargr Extents manage to cordon off infection?
Q: Did any polities of the Vargr Extents integrate Awaken, Sane, or other less-destructive versions of Virus?
Q: Similarly, how did the Julian Protectorate fare in this time between Collapse and The New Era? Did the Julians or perhaps the Gashikans drop their racial differences in the face of the silicon threat(s)? Was it every dog or monkey for itself?
Q: How amenable was Virus to undertaking negotiations with Vargr worlds wishing to survive the Vampire fleets?
Q: Due to Charisma issues, how willing were Vampire fleets willing to take Vargr crew?
Q: Does pack mentality in Vargr play a part in interactions with Virus or the Vampire fleets?
Q: IMTU one Mother Strain molded itself as a female Vargr 'Beta'. Did Virus try to adapt itself to other Major Races it came into contact with? How many Strains did it take to do so - OR - How many waves of suicider and doomslayer waves passed before adaptation occurred?
I know that these questions are skewed towards the Vargr Extents. They can just as easily be changed to the Aslan, the K'kree, the Hivers and minor races. I ask these questions because answers from the published materials may have a different path when applied to what I am working to develop in Knoellighz. Or are the answers to these questions in the hands of the Referee?
I like the story potential of the Collapse and the years building up to the Last Sane and similar actions in Sectors where Virus came to its senses like it did on the Mosquito-class vessel, Muecke. Not necessarily The New Era but definitely post-Collapse. It is that range of years that I am most curious; the struggle between discerning unsafe Virus and Awaken. When best, in other Sectors of space, does the infant AI begin to stop throwing tantrums?
Finally, I already know how much many dislike Virus and the Virus-era, Collapse and Reformation/Regency. I'm not looking for opinionated answers, just worthy answers. And yes, they can come from Your Traveller Universe.
Ah. Yard time from my cell. In the middle of the night no less. The chants are heard through the chain fence from the Temple next door.
For Net-7 News, this is the Pakkrat at OENLAETSVAEG (Ghoekhnael 1938).
I am curious to this span of years. Questions, for me, arise such as:
Q: How fast does Virus spread to distant Sectors, say Knoellighz, Ghoekhnael, Dhuerrorg, Ngathksirz in the Vargr Extents?
Q: Did Virus have a hard time with Vargr operating systems as it did with Aslan Clan systems?
Q: Was Regency the only entity to quarantine or did any polities of the Vargr Extents manage to cordon off infection?
Q: Did any polities of the Vargr Extents integrate Awaken, Sane, or other less-destructive versions of Virus?
Q: Similarly, how did the Julian Protectorate fare in this time between Collapse and The New Era? Did the Julians or perhaps the Gashikans drop their racial differences in the face of the silicon threat(s)? Was it every dog or monkey for itself?
Q: How amenable was Virus to undertaking negotiations with Vargr worlds wishing to survive the Vampire fleets?
Q: Due to Charisma issues, how willing were Vampire fleets willing to take Vargr crew?
Q: Does pack mentality in Vargr play a part in interactions with Virus or the Vampire fleets?
Q: IMTU one Mother Strain molded itself as a female Vargr 'Beta'. Did Virus try to adapt itself to other Major Races it came into contact with? How many Strains did it take to do so - OR - How many waves of suicider and doomslayer waves passed before adaptation occurred?
I know that these questions are skewed towards the Vargr Extents. They can just as easily be changed to the Aslan, the K'kree, the Hivers and minor races. I ask these questions because answers from the published materials may have a different path when applied to what I am working to develop in Knoellighz. Or are the answers to these questions in the hands of the Referee?
I like the story potential of the Collapse and the years building up to the Last Sane and similar actions in Sectors where Virus came to its senses like it did on the Mosquito-class vessel, Muecke. Not necessarily The New Era but definitely post-Collapse. It is that range of years that I am most curious; the struggle between discerning unsafe Virus and Awaken. When best, in other Sectors of space, does the infant AI begin to stop throwing tantrums?
Finally, I already know how much many dislike Virus and the Virus-era, Collapse and Reformation/Regency. I'm not looking for opinionated answers, just worthy answers. And yes, they can come from Your Traveller Universe.
Ah. Yard time from my cell. In the middle of the night no less. The chants are heard through the chain fence from the Temple next door.
For Net-7 News, this is the Pakkrat at OENLAETSVAEG (Ghoekhnael 1938).
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
While some of the questions are sort of answered, if you set a game in deneb/corridor in the 1130/1140s/1150s it's all very, very woolly. Some planets have definite timelines for first contact described (particularly Corridor) but what happened after that and before 1200 is incredibly unclear
Wonderful for DIY campaigning
But frustrating because you know the start and end and not the logic that got from one to t'other.
e.g. You know that the Rape of Trin occurs - but how did that ship get there from Vland? Where was it when in the interim?
e.g. When does each of the Vargr empires fall? Why does it take 5 years between the fall of Khouth and the fall of Million?
Wonderful for DIY campaigning
But frustrating because you know the start and end and not the logic that got from one to t'other.
e.g. You know that the Rape of Trin occurs - but how did that ship get there from Vland? Where was it when in the interim?
e.g. When does each of the Vargr empires fall? Why does it take 5 years between the fall of Khouth and the fall of Million?
A good place to share notes. That would make a good thread for discussion and floating ideas.
DED
SOC-12
DN & MJD did their best with their respective milieus (1202 & 1248 respectively), but it comes down to limited time and space in the materials that made it into publication to provide the necessary level of detail. Maybe if there had been more supplements that were focused on specific areas or plot points, that detail would be there. End result, as you point out, "wonderful for DIY campaigning."
We know from The Regency Sourcebook the worlds from Deneb sector onward that the Kishkii traveled, but not the ones in Corridor or Vland.
The difference between Khouth and Million could be three reasons:
1) Traffic patterns. Infected corsairs likely returned to their bases of operation in Tuglikki and Provence sectors.
2) Early RQS patrols. Until the full on quarantine zone could be fully established, it's possible that some patrols were sent in to hold off advancing ships. Once the the Frontier zone was established, the patrols fell back.
3) Stellar gap. There are only two worlds in Million that are only two parsecs from a Khouth world: Olokono, a meager TL-5 world with an E starport and one gas giant, and Aerfor, TL-D with an A starport. I don't know what percentage of ships are Jump-2 or 1, but I believe that it's a majority. Control these two choke points and you buy the subsector some time.
And if an vampire ship enters a system where the mainworld was abandoned, it had better be one of the longer lived strains otherwise it's just going to die there without spreading.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Aerfor is Dzarrgh Federate from 1117/8. But Dzarrgh Federate falls in 1138. So do the United Followers of Augurgh take over administration? And the planet is noted as full of robots so any Virus = disaster. Weird?
Olokono was evacuated and Corfinium in Atsah was a centre of resistance against the virus.
The flow through Khouth by dates per wiki have the rimward part being fed ships from trailing from 1137 and coreward having ships from coreward in 1140 with clashes in 1140 at Overlook
Dates suggest a single strain of empire builder Delgarla -->Sigma7--> Hesarus--> Serk-->Tersta in 1138. With offshoot doomslayers to Khouth and Mikesh in 1139. Tersta -->Overlook recon in 1139 with clash in 1140 with those arriving from coreward.
So the delay to 1143 could be a result of the clash with Vampire competitors after 1140 (including Red Pelts if those are still viable); Resistance at Serk disrupting the advance into Million via the UFA
The route to rimward is then dependent upon the route via Ian with the Semiplast/Pamock/Desolate closter falling in 1140 and Pergzitt/Synez getting bypassed by early waves.
Atsah gets hit at Corfinium in 1139 and Kishkii heads through sometime about then - Oddly not one of the worlds Kishkii heads through gets any virus infection despite several being high-tech and basically unprotected! Very restrained! And the route given starts at the Quarantine zone boundary...tracing back would be interesting as there are (effectively) very few possible, practical J3 routes with gas giants not occupied by other virus incarnations.
The implication is that Khukish must have effectively fallen in 1137, as must Strand.
The average rate of advance is about 1 subsector per annum. Surprisingly slow. And that rate doesn't change between Imperium and Vargr space. The difference between the two arrival dates is just distances.
Olokono was evacuated and Corfinium in Atsah was a centre of resistance against the virus.
The flow through Khouth by dates per wiki have the rimward part being fed ships from trailing from 1137 and coreward having ships from coreward in 1140 with clashes in 1140 at Overlook
Dates suggest a single strain of empire builder Delgarla -->Sigma7--> Hesarus--> Serk-->Tersta in 1138. With offshoot doomslayers to Khouth and Mikesh in 1139. Tersta -->Overlook recon in 1139 with clash in 1140 with those arriving from coreward.
So the delay to 1143 could be a result of the clash with Vampire competitors after 1140 (including Red Pelts if those are still viable); Resistance at Serk disrupting the advance into Million via the UFA
The route to rimward is then dependent upon the route via Ian with the Semiplast/Pamock/Desolate closter falling in 1140 and Pergzitt/Synez getting bypassed by early waves.
Atsah gets hit at Corfinium in 1139 and Kishkii heads through sometime about then - Oddly not one of the worlds Kishkii heads through gets any virus infection despite several being high-tech and basically unprotected! Very restrained! And the route given starts at the Quarantine zone boundary...tracing back would be interesting as there are (effectively) very few possible, practical J3 routes with gas giants not occupied by other virus incarnations.
The implication is that Khukish must have effectively fallen in 1137, as must Strand.
The average rate of advance is about 1 subsector per annum. Surprisingly slow. And that rate doesn't change between Imperium and Vargr space. The difference between the two arrival dates is just distances.
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BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
This is a synopsis based on the data in the Wiki! But, I only looked at Million and surrounding subsectors because that is where the campaign I'm running is set.
Mostly interpolation though. And many of the dates are of unpublished provenance (i.e. probably Peter Gray) but they mostly make a good story.
I have updated the article on Kishkii and the Battle before Trin (193rd Fleet's go at stopping it) and the Admiral (Arthur Arkan) who lost it.
Mostly interpolation though. And many of the dates are of unpublished provenance (i.e. probably Peter Gray) but they mostly make a good story.
I have updated the article on Kishkii and the Battle before Trin (193rd Fleet's go at stopping it) and the Admiral (Arthur Arkan) who lost it.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
On another note...
...There is a major Virus attack on Corfinium in 1139. The main potential source of ships and troops are from Khukish Subsector (Subverted troops from the Irrgh Manifest or Glory of Taarskoerzn).
As this is 1139, the major implication is that the number of subverted ships is low while the number of ships being built to order in subverted shipyards is going up. After all, there are almost no big combat vessels left in Corridor after the fleet debacle of 1117.
But there is no indication of what those Vargr states did to oppose/flee the Virus when they finally realised it was real.
They would need to be rolled up (or shunted aside in Vland/Ngath's cases) in the order:
Vland (1134+)
Ngath Confederation (Minor and mostly irrelevant to corridor) (1135+)
Irrgh Manifest (Trailing Group): Corridor and Vargr Extents (1135/6)
Glory of Taarskoerzn: Corridor and Vargr Extents (1136/37)
Corsair Alliance: Corridor (1136/37)
Irrgh Manifest (Spinward Group): Corridor and Vargr Extents (1137/38)
Dzarrgh Federate: (1137-40)
Atsah Remnants + Corfinium (1139+)
Regency (1139+)
United Followers of Augurgh (1143/44)
...There is a major Virus attack on Corfinium in 1139. The main potential source of ships and troops are from Khukish Subsector (Subverted troops from the Irrgh Manifest or Glory of Taarskoerzn).
As this is 1139, the major implication is that the number of subverted ships is low while the number of ships being built to order in subverted shipyards is going up. After all, there are almost no big combat vessels left in Corridor after the fleet debacle of 1117.
But there is no indication of what those Vargr states did to oppose/flee the Virus when they finally realised it was real.
They would need to be rolled up (or shunted aside in Vland/Ngath's cases) in the order:
Vland (1134+)
Ngath Confederation (Minor and mostly irrelevant to corridor) (1135+)
Irrgh Manifest (Trailing Group): Corridor and Vargr Extents (1135/6)
Glory of Taarskoerzn: Corridor and Vargr Extents (1136/37)
Corsair Alliance: Corridor (1136/37)
Irrgh Manifest (Spinward Group): Corridor and Vargr Extents (1137/38)
Dzarrgh Federate: (1137-40)
Atsah Remnants + Corfinium (1139+)
Regency (1139+)
United Followers of Augurgh (1143/44)
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
And a related question...The Red Pelts...must have transited the Ngath Confederation in the 1143s to arrive in the UFA and beyond in 1144. Are these guys in league with a Virus version or immune to it?
Hello again Pakkrat. I have some new speculations based on mulling over this for 5 more years and updates of what little we know of IY1900. Thanks robject for your new magazine BTW.
As with Rob, my speculations use the 1248 books as well, I would modify it. SOME (oops my bias seeps in) people consider it apocrypha, and the official changes to Empress Wave make much of TNE 1248 and TNE 1200 Marches invalid. HOWEVER, until there is an canon explanation, the further back in time one goes from 1200 and rimward from the Wave itself the more probable the event. One must hope, else it is a extremely Grim Dark future for the Chosen Peoples of the Ancients. A wise and crafty Vargr may find ... opportunities to explain
I will get to the rate of Virus Spread in a future post. Before we look to speed we should set our mind first to initial conditions. The Empress Wave is canon. Its deadliness is unknown, but our current understanding of the OTU allows us to track position and speed.
The Wave has ALREADY come come into play. Ghoekhnael been entirely consumed by the Wave. It is effectively a straight line at this point so all Extents corewards have lost their minds and civiliations. It has just entered Knoellighz, Dhuerrorg and Ngathksirz Sectors as this visual to travellermap indicates:
Classic Era Map with Empress Wave position in 1116
By the Year of Virus Release (1130), the Wave is almost halfway thru the Democracy of Greats in Ghoekhnael Sector and polities Trailing
Classic Era Map with Wave position in 1130
Barring some currently unknown opportunity a courageous Vargr might seize, it is not looking good.
1248 Map
According to the 1248 books the Regency aided as many Vargr States as it could to cover the Coreward-ish side of the Regency. In Gvurrdon Sector they listened in time and survive. All others by the time of Quarrantine had failed to listen or couldn't be saved. It is stated the Society of Equals, Thoengling Empire, and Commonality of Kedzudh, listened and worked with the Regency. This is of course speculative because of the Wave, but is a testament to the intentions of the writer or some future Vargr epic poem. :rofl:
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
And the Zhodani core expeditions, and (by implication/extrapolation) the whole 5th Frontier War. The Upgraded Wave makes the Virus look like a side-show.
Indeed it did. 1248, it seems wanted Viral Entities around. It writes the story with allowing each non-Imperial a reason, of sorts, to survive slightly better than factions who stuck to the past Imperium. The Vargr excuse, ahem, reason is the lack of standards. The Extents are a lower TL generally and while Virus goes thru easily, it must relearn/learn continually. It is never eliminated but the rate of spread is slowed.
MY SPECULATION:
This grants the Vargr time for Virus to mutate into its more survivable strains
https://travellermap.com/?p=15.359!66.261!3.5&options=33791&milieu=M1248
It is known the Protectorate survives after being stomped flat. It rebuilds on its own and it not really further mentioned. They do not encounter the Gods of Thunder and the veqeterian jihhad. The few other words mentioned say The Vargr Splinters are not really stable enough to have multi-world governments.
Yes, I have to keep the realities straight. Good thing I read and understood Marvel Comics time travel before there was an MCU. Makes the OTU a picnic in comparison.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
The Humancentric default here is very notable.
Vargr Packs don't have to be unstable for the government of a world to be unstable. Neither does their have to be multi-world government for there to be multi-world packs.
e.g. (Being Humancentric again) The Hansa was a multi-city trading conglomerate despite Europe not having one Government or even (in some cases) a concept of Nation as Government.
