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A Hidden Pirate Base.....

Some details for those discussing the economics and legality of all piracy and having your own starport.

1. The setting is the Trojan Reach, specifically focused on the area of space that is NOT controlled by either the Imperium or Aslan.

2. Most of the trade in the area is done by free lancers with the exception of the major trade routes.

3. The setting does provide for an Encounter table for those interested in piracy. There are modifiers for all types of things such as the TL and LL of the system as well as how far it is from any naval bases.

4. The setting also provides for a method of tracking the groups reputation with both the Imperium and Aslan based upon the things they do. If it gets to low with either they WILL send out ships/troops to find the party and eliminate them.

As for the selling of stolen ships, that is very hard to do. Parts on the other hand are much easier. And of course they can always use the parts from prize ships to repair their ships that get damaged during fights.
 
1. The setting is the Trojan Reach, specifically focused on the area of space that is NOT controlled by either the Imperium or Aslan.

oh. well then I have no idea.

And of course they can always use the parts from prize ships to repair their ships that get damaged during fights.

ah. ah, now THAT is a possibility. mini-borg. kill a ship, digest it, turn it into your own fleet ....

not sure how well it would work. having designed a lot of boats I can say that it's hard to fit the components of one boat into another. but if they're modular, like mine are, then it could be done. be ugly, but it could be done.
 
You should see some of the Franken-ships I built for TNE. I used photocopies of deckplans which I then cut up along bulkhead line and assembled cut'n'shut ships from them.

The humble x-boat was a common starting point since its jump 4 drive could be adapted to a 200-400t ship in total - and it was extremely common pre-collapse.

Back on track - a type B starport assembling ships up to 2000 tons still requires them to have a supply of parts, those parts can be/must be imported - or be obtained by tearing down captured vessels.

In CT your TL15 merchant can have its annual maintenance at any class A/B starport, regardless of world TL.
 
Piracy usually can't exist within the operational radius of an aggressive and well resourced navy.

Ah but they can, when they are ensconced in Oort clouds.

Absolutely huge volume. Think 9x the volume of a typical Traveller system.

Fuel. Oxygen. Water.

All that is lacking out there is heavy metals and an industrial base.

The one thing pirates or the Oort denizens lack is serious starport maintenance, parts, etc.

So, they can steal it especially if we are talking default modular letter LBB2 drives, but the gold standard is having a B capacity. They will KILL to get ship building tech and tools.

Then, you can have Oort to Oort jumps and traffic, a huge mess of humanity beyond the law.

Corporations will pay to have illegal R&D and production conducted out there.

Cults banned from civilized space can flourish away from suppression.

Traders seeking to escape their crushing loan burden can make the run and move merchandise- if they can find paying work AND get paid for it without losing their ship and lives.

In that situation undercover agents are more powerful then battlecruisers, you would have to depend upon them to find any Oort infrastructure for the fleet to blast.
 
If we take the example of the Royal Navy, besides protecting their lines of communications and trading routes, pirate hunting is a cheap way to give their crews and officers combat training, without picking an argument with another country.
 
Ah but they can, when they are ensconced in Oort clouds.

And/or an exoplanet.

*Or...*

A long-lost 1st or 2nd Imperium Deep Space Calibration Point - or one that dates from the Barrack Emperor period, etc. etc. etc. I like this one a great deal, even better than the potentially overused "Ancient Site" because it makes plenty of sense for someone to build such a place, and over time for use during wartime - and then have it lost/abandoned, waiting to be rediscovered by the lucky whomever...

How about a Solomani Phoenix Project site?

Lots of ways to make this happen if the Ref wants it to.

D.
 
And/or an exoplanet.

*Or...*

A long-lost 1st or 2nd Imperium Deep Space Calibration Point - or one that dates from the Barrack Emperor period, etc. etc. etc. I like this one a great deal, even better than the potentially overused "Ancient Site" because it makes plenty of sense for someone to build such a place, and over time for use during wartime - and then have it lost/abandoned, waiting to be rediscovered by the lucky whomever...

How about a Solomani Phoenix Project site?

Lots of ways to make this happen if the Ref wants it to.

D.

Deep Space Calibration point? What are those?

I ask because my IMTU has a rule about having to 'map' space by capturing readings before being able to jump there AND Earth is Jump-2 away from everything AND there is only Jump-1 available.

So there are a lot of deep space refuel points that were very costly to get to and map that are effectively national security secrets, wondering if this is a similar thing.
 
Ah but they can, when they are ensconced in Oort clouds.

Absolutely huge volume. Think 9x the volume of a typical Traveller system.

Fuel. Oxygen. Water.

All that is lacking out there is heavy metals and an industrial base.
It's quite true that there are plenty of places for a pirate to hide where no one will find him.

The one thing pirates or the Oort denizens lack is serious starport maintenance, parts, etc.
Untrue. He also has a serious lack of prey. And of a market, but since he isn't going to capture any prizes without getting within range of that aggressive and well resourced navy, that's by the way.


Hans
 
Deep Space Calibration point? What are those?

I ask because my IMTU has a rule about having to 'map' space by capturing readings before being able to jump there AND Earth is Jump-2 away from everything AND there is only Jump-1 available.

So there are a lot of deep space refuel points that were very costly to get to and map that are effectively national security secrets, wondering if this is a similar thing.
A spot in deep space for which jump coordinates are well known, and which are able to be used as points for making deep-space legs of long routes.

In most cases, the CP is also a fuel depot.
 
A spot in deep space for which jump coordinates are well known, and which are able to be used as points for making deep-space legs of long routes.

In most cases, the CP is also a fuel depot.

Ok, so conceptually/playwise the same thing, correct me if I'm wrong but these are considered unusual because of the lack of gravitic 'anchor/reference points' for most Traveller versions, correct?
 
Untrue. He also has a serious lack of prey. And of a market, but since he isn't going to capture any prizes without getting within range of that aggressive and well resourced navy, that's by the way.


Hans

Hmm, the Oort cloud IS a market and prey, and in some ways the target ships are even more valuable due to a constant need for spare parts and using the very metal of the ship, being in short supply 'out there'.

In some cases the desperate trader captain is attacking because he has failed to make connections out there and is literally needing to take your life support supplies.

However, I would agree that the organized pirate able to operate a repair port could not sustain it on the meager fare of the Oort cloud, the same wide volumes and separation makes for less 'customers to service'. It would be a matter of basing in the cloud and taking risks to bag targets.
 
Hmm, the Oort cloud IS a market and prey, and in some ways the target ships are even more valuable due to a constant need for spare parts and using the very metal of the ship, being in short supply 'out there'.
It is? I've never heard about any Oort cloud civilization in the OTU. If you want to introduce a whole new aspect of Life in the Far Future, that's up to you, but those are not the pirates I object to (except insofar as I don't believe in an Oort cloud civilization.)

The pirates that we Piracy-sceptics really don't believe in are the ones that show up on the ship encounter tables, lurking at jump limit of the world the PCs have just arrived at.

We have our doubts about the pirates from the Pirate career and economic viablilty of flying around in 400T ships preying on armed civilian ships, but those doubts are admittedly less solid.

In some cases the desperate trader captain is attacking because he has failed to make connections out there and is literally needing to take your life support supplies.
Not me! I'm sticking to trading between worlds. And if I were to deliver a cargo to a Oort Cloud habitat, I'd be jumping in so close to said habitat that I'd be under its guns and protected against desperate traders.

You do realize that distances in Oort clouds are such that there'd be no long maneuver drive trips and no possibility of intercepting any prey?


Hans
 
Ok, so conceptually/playwise the same thing, correct me if I'm wrong but these are considered unusual because of the lack of gravitic 'anchor/reference points' for most Traveller versions, correct?
Actually, most versions of Traveller did NOT require a gravitic 'anchor/reference point'. GT:Interstellar Wars makes the concept explicit for that era (and specified that for later eras this inability was worked around).
 
Ah but they can, when they are ensconced in Oort clouds.

Absolutely huge volume. Think 9x the volume of a typical Traveller system.

Fuel. Oxygen. Water.

All that is lacking out there is heavy metals and an industrial base.

sorry, but it's lacking two other vital components - loot, and fencing. for piracy to work, the pirates have to go to where the loot is, and then they have to go to where the fence is. law enforcement doesn't have to go where the pirates are, all law enforcement has to do is go where the pirates have to go and the pirates will come to them. tagged cargo, tagged equipment, fence fronts, and q-ships (see my link below for the agzlu q-ship) all raise the risk of piracy to the point where organized pirates eventually will be caught.
 
One non-member world per region. That's all that is required to support piracy.

There is virtually no piracy that I am aware of anywhere along the North American Great Lakes ... but there is some piracy in the Caribbean (along with a lot of other illegal activities like smuggling).

Is it the result of the innate weakness of the Navy and Coast Guard to outgun or outrun a pirate? [No.]

Are there NO Balkanized worlds in the Imperium (or its border) where a ship might find a sympathetic port?

I have attempted to tiptoe around some safe examples in the real world (No Politics outside the Pit) ... but if you give it some thought, there are a few other Real World (Pit worthy discussions) places where some other ideas for how Piracy might exist will suggest themselves. The distinction that a ship with a letter of mark is a Privateer rather than a Pirate is a distinction probably missed by the crew of the victimized commercial ship.

From simple game mechanics, a Jump 5 ship could outpace Communications and sell a stolen cargo before word of its theft could reach a starport.
 
It is? I've never heard about any Oort cloud civilization in the OTU. If you want to introduce a whole new aspect of Life in the Far Future, that's up to you, but those are not the pirates I object to (except insofar as I don't believe in an Oort cloud civilization.)

Perhaps it's more of an American thing, given all the crazy people and their strange utopian communities that popped up all over America at the edges that makes it all more palatable to me. Indeed, the Pilgrims themselves were pretty much an escapee fringe religious group, as opposed to the economic opportunists of Jamestown.

The pirates that we Piracy-sceptics really don't believe in are the ones that show up on the ship encounter tables, lurking at jump limit of the world the PCs have just arrived at.

My pirate clans operate more like special forces, with very precise attacks planned out and a lot of intelligence/loose lips sink ships sort of groundwork beforehand, a lot less 'seat of the pants' adhoc piracy.

A LOT of the viability depends upon the rules one has re: inertia coming out of jump, how much of a sensor broadcast the jump itself is compared to normal ship detection, detection rules and how well all parties are equipped, how often and reliably pirates can set matching vee to minimize time risk without triggering boarding and/or confiscation/confinement, and the economics of patrolling and response.

Adjust those, and you adjust the probability of the encounters.

We have our doubts about the pirates from the Pirate career and economic viablilty of flying around in 400T ships preying on armed civilian ships, but those doubts are admittedly less solid.

Now that depends upon a different factor, the corruption and ability to have a market.

What made the pirate republic of the Caribbean possible was a combination of factors, but the largest has to be paying customers for the loot.

And a lot of those customers were American colonies, with participants involved at the highest levels of government.

So if you have worlds that are lower tech level and unlikely to be able to pay the 50-300% price hikes one has to for high tech goods (depending upon the system used to determine price), largesse from the skies in the form of goods at 40% cost likely seems like something worth risking for.

A large enough market, and you can pay for all that supply and crew and armament.


Not me! I'm sticking to trading between worlds. And if I were to deliver a cargo to a Oort Cloud habitat, I'd be jumping in so close to said habitat that I'd be under its guns and protected against desperate traders.

A wise choice, but adventure awaits the desperate.

A standard feature of most of my space habitats is the rock shield, essentially a maze of rocks and debris intended to stop frac-C attacks in their tracks by breaking up the object short of the station.

Means anyone showing up has to navigate the maze to get in or blow a hole in the rock shielding, and that station guns are going to be of limited range.

Not all use that system of course, among other things it's practically a neon sign saying 'valuable looting site here' and not good for 'don't look here Navy guys this is just an iceball' discrete facilities.


You do realize that distances in Oort clouds are such that there'd be no long maneuver drive trips and no possibility of intercepting any prey?

Funny thing about those longer distances- gives you more time to accel and decel. Week long several billion km trips are certainly possible. I understand canon says jump was first developed by the Solomani for outer system travel, so anything outside of the 'local' trips would be jumps.

As I indicated before the Oort is a vast arena that makes pirate bases eminently possible, but that short of much better multi-AU detection gear on board one can disappear out there pretty easily. As such piracy would depend less upon opportunistic trade lane lurking and more upon intel as to when and where the prey is.
 
One non-member world per region. That's all that is required to support piracy.
One non-member world powerful enough to fend off an aggressive and well resourced navy. We know from a couple of examples that the Imperium is willing to go in and replace any government found to be supporting pirates.

There is virtually no piracy that I am aware of anywhere along the North American Great Lakes ... but there is some piracy in the Caribbean (along with a lot of other illegal activities like smuggling).

Is it the result of the innate weakness of the Navy and Coast Guard to outgun or outrun a pirate? [No.]
It's because of an unwillingness to do what it takes to suppress it.

Are there NO Balkanized worlds in the Imperium (or its border) where a ship might find a sympathetic port?
Sympathetic, perhaps. But suicidal? It would most definitely have to be very careful to keep its sympathy a deep dark secret.

I have attempted to tiptoe around some safe examples in the real world (No Politics outside the Pit) ... but if you give it some thought, there are a few other Real World (Pit worthy discussions) places where some other ideas for how Piracy might exist will suggest themselves. The distinction that a ship with a letter of mark is a Privateer rather than a Pirate is a distinction probably missed by the crew of the victimized commercial ship.
Letters of marque require a war. Theere's no such thing as a privateer without it.

From simple game mechanics, a Jump 5 ship could outpace Communications and sell a stolen cargo before word of its theft could reach a starport.
Not really. The IN employs J6 couriers. Not that getting away and selling the loot isn't a way down on the list of Things To Do To Be A Successful Pirate.


Hans
 
sorry, but it's lacking two other vital components - loot, and fencing. for piracy to work, the pirates have to go to where the loot is, and then they have to go to where the fence is. law enforcement doesn't have to go where the pirates are, all law enforcement has to do is go where the pirates have to go and the pirates will come to them. tagged cargo, tagged equipment, fence fronts, and q-ships (see my link below for the agzlu q-ship) all raise the risk of piracy to the point where organized pirates eventually will be caught.

I was busy typing my answer in so did not see before posting.

Of course all this is true, and in my milieu pirates are the main reason for navies to exist (well, other then the nations don't trust each other entirely, but that's not talked about in polite/diplomatic company). So I am assuming a harsh level of difficulty along your lines.

In the OTU, look for a low tech level high law level world with C or below starports, and you have yourself an eminently corruptible planet whose very governmental officials can make a bundle off cutrate goods and have the clout and bribe money to spread around and get away with it when Imperial Law Enforcement shows up. Maybe even B, more patrols but more flow of cargo to cover the illicit stuff.

Pirates don't even go to the planet, drop off in space or an asteroid, planetary shuttles go out and pick the goods up, hey we're just doing in-system cargo runs, nothing to see here.
 
From simple game mechanics, a Jump 5 ship could outpace Communications and sell a stolen cargo before word of its theft could reach a starport.

if they can afford a j5 ship, why would they be pirates?

From simple game mechanics, a Jump 5 ship could outpace Communications and sell a stolen cargo before word of its theft could reach a starport.

yeah. once. then they'd never be trusted again.

heh. and they might not be able to pull off that "once". "hey, that bird did a j5 to get here." "and they're selling cargo? what?" "second-hand power plants and salvaged jump drives and a previously installed ship's computer." "uh huh ...."
 
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