creativehum
SOC-14 1K
For 17th century sailing vessels, how many men were required to crew each cannon?
A Tech Level 2 Sailing Vessel Question
- Thread starter creativehum
- Start date
Didn't find an absolute answer, but I did find this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_operation
It states "During the Napoleonic Wars, a British gun team consisted of 5 numbered gunners - fewer crew than needed in the previous century."
In an emergency, you could always make do with less crew than 'standard' but of course your rate of fire would drop off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_operation
It states "During the Napoleonic Wars, a British gun team consisted of 5 numbered gunners - fewer crew than needed in the previous century."
In an emergency, you could always make do with less crew than 'standard' but of course your rate of fire would drop off.
An 18th Century 24 pounder required a crew of 13.
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There's no hard and fast number. It depended greatly on the size of the cannon in question, the way in which the cannon was mounted on the vessel, the way in which the cannon was going to be used, and even the size of the overall crew.
Using an example from the USN during the Civil War, an 11-inch Dahlgren mounted as a pivot gun had a 25 man crew while the same gun mounted in a turret had an 8 man crew. Same shot, same shells, and same powder weight but, because it needed to be trained by muscle power, the pivot gun needed a larger crew.
Using another example from the RN during the 17th/18th Centuries, 24-pounders were supposed to have a 12 man crew.
P.S. Look at all those answers. And people wonder why I say Traveller attracts naval cranks!
Using an example from the USN during the Civil War, an 11-inch Dahlgren mounted as a pivot gun had a 25 man crew while the same gun mounted in a turret had an 8 man crew. Same shot, same shells, and same powder weight but, because it needed to be trained by muscle power, the pivot gun needed a larger crew.
Using another example from the RN during the 17th/18th Centuries, 24-pounders were supposed to have a 12 man crew.
P.S. Look at all those answers. And people wonder why I say Traveller attracts naval cranks!
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Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Depends on the size the piece. For light guns up to say 8 pdr it's 6 to 8. For larger long guns it ranges from 8 to 16, 10 or 12 being typical. You'd have a mount captain (commanding the gun crew), a gunner (aims), three men to load and ram the shot and powder, and the rest are there to haul the lines to run the gun out and help aim it. The power and shot men help with the lines when not loading the gun.
So, a 32 pdr would have a 12 man crew. This would include the "official" crew from the disengaged battery on the opposite side of the ship (or 6 per gun). All 12 are needed as the mount weighed close to 2 tons.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Great. Thanks all. Right. The size of the gun. I can sort it out from here.
(It's a new topic. Had to get my head pointed in the right direction!)
(It's a new topic. Had to get my head pointed in the right direction!)
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I have the data in Archibald's Wooden Fighting Ship in the Royal Navy, data from 1730 gun crew rating for guns from 3 pounder to 42 pounder. Do you also want a detailed cost breakdown for ships of various sizes from the same source?
The crew is the minimum to operate the gun, and assumes both broadsides in action. Then you would have had powder monkeys to supply powder from the ship's powder magazine, usually located below the water line, to the guns, at the rate of one powder monkey per two guns. Round shot would have been stored in holders next to the gun, and if this ready supply would have been used up, at least two crewmen would have been detailed from the unengaged battery, if that existed, to bring up additional shot.
The crew size for manning guns was fairly constant over the years. I also have the data for the US Navy gun manning and crew breakdown for the period prior to the Civil War. The US Navy instructions for preparation of ships of war for combat also gives a detailed breakdown of crew duties.
Essentially, how much information do you want?
Edit Note: You might want to check out the following thread that I started under MegaTraveller on Wet Navy Ship Design.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=27245
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17th C? 1 rammer, 1-2 ball handlers, 1 gun captain, and 0-4 (depending upon size) rope men (to advance the gun. Light carronades might be advanced by the gun-captain and rammer; the largest would have 2 ball handlers, with all 8 crew needed to advance the gun to the port.
Edit: Forgot the Powder monkey - may be 0.25 to 1 per gun. These guys are the ones carrying and pouring the powder, and have the lowest life expectancy of any aboard ship.
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But no notes on crewing...
It can be summarized in brief as
swab
load powder
pack powder with ram
load ball and wad
ram ball and wad
run up the gun (move it to the firing port)
elevate the gun as directed
clear behind the gun
fire the gun on command
repeat.
The swab step is VITAL for 2nd and later shots - you're putting a wet mop down to kill any still burning powder. If you don't, you may get a "BOOM" when the powder monkey powders the gun.
Posts #8 and #9 told you how many men per gun, but didn't really tell what size guns were used in the 17th Century. The HMS Soverign supplies the maximum size and number of guns for a 17th Century warship rather than an 18th or 19th century ship.
How many men per gun in the 18th Century and by regulation, regulations that were honored more often in the breach than not.
Practices in the 17th Century were rather different than the 18th for a variety of reasons. Boarding tactics still predominated as the Anglo-Dutch Wars show. "Line of battle" tactics were in their infancy so ships fought either singly or in small groups. Guns weren't mounted or fired in broadsides either and instead were mounted, aimed, and fired individually. The emphasis on boarding meant soldiers were routinely carried not only for boarding parties but also as gun crews. That same emphasis means a high rate of fire was not a primary goal which meant gun crews would be smaller.
Sweden's Vasa is a good guide for us as is the UK's Mary Rose from a century earlier.
Vasa carried 64 guns, 48 of which were 24-pounders and the rest being "anti-personnel" weapons. She sank with ~145 sailors and ~300 soldiers aboard.
Mary Rose was carrying ~90 guns when she sank, only 24 of which were large enough to be considered "anti-ship". She sank with ~415 aboard, only 200 of which were sailors.
Gun crew sizes are going to vary rather widely.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Do you want a breakdown on what size guns were used in the 17th Century, as I have that as well, and not just for one ship? The principal new gun, sort of, in the early 18th Century was the 12 pounder, which the English began to use after capturing some from the Dutch, during the Anglo-Dutch naval wars. The gun which the 12-pounder supplanted was the 9 pounder, or demi-culverin.
As for gun crew size, that is not going to change a lot, as it is based on the number of men required to move the gun back into firing position in the gun port after the recoil.
Also vitally important in this process is the gun captain or No. 1 keeping his thumb on the touch-hole from the point the charge is introduced and rammed to when he primes the piece. This stops air from passing through the piece cutting down the chance of premature ignition.
The powder-monkey's job is to bring charges from the magazine to the gun, one of the gun numbers, or gun crew, should be designated to introduce the charge to the piece although depending on the size of the crew he may also be filling other roles such as ramming home the charge as well.
That was what I assumed as well.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
It's actually sponge (wet) and worm (dry). You have to do both. You don't want water in the barrel, even in small amounts as it will ruin powder it comes in contact with.
You usually load powder, then wad and ball (or just ball in some cases), followed by a second wad to keep things in place.
