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AFVs in Space Gamer

infojunky

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Peer of the Realm
Going through my ancient collection of Space Gamer, issue #44 has a amusing couple of articles on AFV construction and combat. The construction rules are based on AHL, and combat rules cover both AHL and the abstract system from Mercenary.

The only flaw I can see with it is they conflate mass with volume...
 
A rather common "feature" of Traveller design systems?

A rather common flaw with Naval Parlance.

A wet navy ship is described by many different tonnages...
Displacement Tonnage - Fueled but not loaded mass, as measured by displacement of water at STP
Deadweight tonnage - total mass fueled but not laden. In long tons of 2240 lbs.
Gross Registry tonnage - internal volume, at 1 GRT = 100 cu ft.
Net Registry Tonnage - internal volume for passengers and cargo, in 100 cu ft units.
also, Laden versions of all the above...

Cargo Tonnage - internal cargo space - Lower of (1) difference between max allowed draft's displacement and standard displacement, (2) net registry tonnage, (3) max allowed cargo mass by structural limits...
Note that some ships cannot handle more than 1 ton per 150 cu ft of cargo space, because of weak decks, but the ship can remain afloat with far more laden mass. This is actually quite common for fishing vessels... the hull is designed to carry a few dozen tons of ice, but cannot hold nearly as much cargo in the bays, as the bays are designed for the relatively low density water with live fish or crab... (SG ≤1.1)...

A Cargo's tonnage is the higher of (Volume/ 40 cu ft) or mass in long tons, most of the time.

Note that GRT often exceeds DT by 2:1 or more...
NRT is often less than allowed maximum Cargo Tonnage, as the ships are often designed for more massive (higher SG) cargos... and for well-deck holds, like on panamax container ships, only the well to weather deck line counts, but the cargo allowed often stacks twice as tall as the well...
 
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A quick and dirty fix for it would be to discard the tonnage of armor from the volume figures.
 
A good encyclopedia of Armored Fighting Vehicles would be highly useful for starters, and probably save a lot of time trying to build one from scratch.
 
Well at least until you get TL7....

At least Tech Level 9, and then earlier layouts still give ideas as to how much internal volume is needed for weaponry and crew, plus how much of the internal volume was taken up by the power plant and transmission. Even Grav vehicles need a power plant of some form. They may not need complex suspension systems, but they will need some way of setting down.

If it is a Grav Carrier, then the dimensions needed to carry a squad of infantry are still fully relevant.
 
What amused me the most about the article is the quick and dirty nature of it.

Most of the bits reduced to percentages.
 
What amused me the most about the article is the quick and dirty nature of it.

Most of the bits reduced to percentages.

If the writer had access to a copy of either Armoured Forces or the Design and Development of Armoured Fighting Vehicles, putting the various components into percentages would make perfect sense, as that is how Richard Ogorkiewicz shows them. The key is that the percentages add up to 100% without any one component being massively predominant.
 
If the writer had access to a copy of either Armoured Forces or the Design and Development of Armoured Fighting Vehicles, putting the various components into percentages would make perfect sense, as that is how Richard Ogorkiewicz shows them. The key is that the percentages add up to 100% without any one component being massively predominant.

They may have, I am just amused at a 4 page article that covers the topic from The Space Gamer in 1981, still can spark imagination 30 years latter.

Mind you the article was written in the period between the release of AHL and Striker. And looks fairly de-constructable into supporting None armored vehicles.
 
They may have, I am just amused at a 4 page article that covers the topic from The Space Gamer in 1981, still can spark imagination 30 years latter.

Mind you the article was written in the period between the release of AHL and Striker. And looks fairly de-constructable into supporting None armored vehicles.

It sounds interesting, How might I get a copy? Is the Space Gamer posted on archive.org?

Edit Note; I found it on archive.org.
 
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It has another flaw (I think) that many design systems (like High Guard) have -- it makes armor protection a flat % of mass or displacement. This allows for light vehicles that are way too well protected. The surface area of an object increases less than the volume. So if you double the volume of a tank, you may only increase the surface area by (say) 1.5. The result is that larger vehicles can have thicker armor for a given percentage of mass than smaller vehicles. This is why there are no 30 ton tanks that are as well protected as a 60 ton M1 Abrams. It's also why Battleships can carry much thicker armor than Destroyers.
 
It has another flaw (I think) that many design systems (like High Guard) have -- it makes armor protection a flat % of mass or displacement.

I'm not going to dispute that. It's right up there in the linear Hardpoints zone.

The deal I always run into is how to make a simple/fast design system system that includes surface area.
 
It also assumes that armor thickness is constant over the vehicle, which is not the case either. Armor thickness is based on the likely direction of attack, and is not uniform over the vehicle.
 
I'm not going to dispute that. It's right up there in the linear Hardpoints zone.

The deal I always run into is how to make a simple/fast design system system that includes surface area.

I have built a design system for the "one day, I promise" FFT:2050, a near future sci-fi version of A Fistful of TOWs. It's pretty straightforward and includes surface area. I'll dig it out and see if it might be useful for Traveller.
 
It also assumes that armor thickness is constant over the vehicle, which is not the case either. Armor thickness is based on the likely direction of attack, and is not uniform over the vehicle.

One way to reflect that, abstractly and simply is to reduce the armor rating for flank shots. Say, halve or quartered. Because of AFV design constraints, armor is always gonna be much thicker on the front. (Some early WW2 tanks had thick armor on the sides too, but the trend since then has been very think on front, enough to maybe deal with light infantry AT weapons on the flanks).
 
Something design systems should avoid is giving bonuses for sloped armor and some cost in mass. A sloped plate covering an area weighs exactly the same as a vertical plate covering that area with the same line-of-sight thickness. Also, the additional "ricochet" benefit of sloped armor isn't really a thing nowadays.

Modern penetrators are actually designed to turn into the armor, so highly sloped armor can be a bit less protective. And advanced energy weapons don't richochet.

One reason armor is sloped nowadays is that thinner plates are *much* cheaper and easier to to manufacture and can be made with fewer defects. Rolling mills have a maximum thickness of plate that they can make.
 
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