AHL model
- Thread starter Andrew Boulton
- Start date
Some thoughts for the general crowd regarding meson attacks, and then I'll more or less behave 
I posted at the SJGames Traveller forum a few questions regarding some implications of shipboard weapon use in Traveller, and I thought I'd share them here...
How and what does a Meson gun do in order to produce a damaging attack? Supposedly, it fires a series of particles that decay at a given rate, and when forced to collide at a given point in time - produces a spectacular radiation burst/explosion.
My question is - what happens when the intended target is not occupying the space of said intended explosion?
Implications of that particular question at least for those of us who remember with fondness, the radiation rules for nuclear warheads on missiles, are that a failed hit with a meson weapon will produce a radiation burst akin to that produced by a nuclear warhead. Shouldn't this "burst" interfere with sensors much the same way that radiation bursts from a nuclear warhead does?
To borrow the thinking from Traveller's wargames - each "attack" in a game turn represents about 20 minutes worth of time. Each "roll of the dice" doesn't neccessarily denote a single attack so much as a barrage of attacks that statistically will result in only one of those multiple attacks actually hitting. Might the same be said of Meson weapons? After all, if it is difficult to hit a target with a laser beam of a given "diameter" of beam, how difficult is it to get atomic particles to collide at a given point in space at a given time such that it intersects with an enemy hull?
Now, imagine what that might look like in space as a battle itself? Would the missed meson shots be visible in the "visible electromagnetic spectrum"? Would it interfer with radar sensors?
Inquiring minds wanna know
I posted at the SJGames Traveller forum a few questions regarding some implications of shipboard weapon use in Traveller, and I thought I'd share them here...
How and what does a Meson gun do in order to produce a damaging attack? Supposedly, it fires a series of particles that decay at a given rate, and when forced to collide at a given point in time - produces a spectacular radiation burst/explosion.
My question is - what happens when the intended target is not occupying the space of said intended explosion?
Implications of that particular question at least for those of us who remember with fondness, the radiation rules for nuclear warheads on missiles, are that a failed hit with a meson weapon will produce a radiation burst akin to that produced by a nuclear warhead. Shouldn't this "burst" interfere with sensors much the same way that radiation bursts from a nuclear warhead does?
To borrow the thinking from Traveller's wargames - each "attack" in a game turn represents about 20 minutes worth of time. Each "roll of the dice" doesn't neccessarily denote a single attack so much as a barrage of attacks that statistically will result in only one of those multiple attacks actually hitting. Might the same be said of Meson weapons? After all, if it is difficult to hit a target with a laser beam of a given "diameter" of beam, how difficult is it to get atomic particles to collide at a given point in space at a given time such that it intersects with an enemy hull?
Now, imagine what that might look like in space as a battle itself? Would the missed meson shots be visible in the "visible electromagnetic spectrum"? Would it interfer with radar sensors?
Inquiring minds wanna know
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Good question. I think meson blasts are much smaller than nukes, so they'd cause much less interference.
Therein lies an interesting perception :devil:
Page 48 of HIGH GUARD lists the three separate tables used for rolling damage against the target ship. It also lists the five basic modifiers to any damage roll used in the game. Those five modifiers are:
1) Armor acts as a positive modifier to the damage roll. Looking at the damage table, high damage rolls do less overall damage to the target, so the Armor Modifier is actually a penalty.
2) ALL factor 9 attacks are modified by a +6 to damage rolls
3) All nuclear attacks are modified by a -6 to their damage roll for surface damage effects ONLY. In other words, you do not modify the damage roll of a nuclear missile when rolling on the radiation damage table.
4) only applies to pulse lasers, for which meson weapons and nuclear missiles are not subject to.
5) Only applies for when damage is rolled on the interior damage table AND the roll on the interior damage table is the result of having rolled a modified 3 through 5 on the surface damage table. Again, not applicable for the damage roll on the radiation table.
As an interesting aside? The most damage that can be done to a crew aboard a target ship is CREW-1, regardless of whether the attack was from a nuclear missile, a meson bay weapon, or a spinal mount. Where Spinal mounts excel against a target ship over meson bay weapons and/or nuclear missile weapons is that the spinal mounts can more massive damage to computers that are not fiber optics computers.
In all? HIGH GUARD seems to imply that Meson "misses" are as radioactive as ordinary nuclear weapons. The only real difference is - HIGH GUARD never implemented what happens when you have a near miss such that it only does radiation damage - not internal damage
Nothing to do with Meson guns...
But really Andrew what's up with all the yellow laser fire? Why yellow? I mean it's not what I'd call one of the lasing fields more popular colors, green, yes, red, hell yes, blue, sure...but yellow? Really, what's the deal?
But really Andrew what's up with all the yellow laser fire? Why yellow? I mean it's not what I'd call one of the lasing fields more popular colors, green, yes, red, hell yes, blue, sure...but yellow? Really, what's the deal?
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
If we look at STRIKER, we see that battlefield meson accelerators apparently produce no radiation that matters outside the burst radius of the weapon. Everything inside the burst radius is destroyed, everything outside the burst radius is untouched.
Comparing that with nuclear weapons (as treated in STRIKER) and we see that nuclear weapons produce several radii of effect, with only the innermost being a "sudden death" zone and all others being of lesser effect, the effect lessening as you get further away from Ground Zero.
Nuclear weapons in STRIKER also create a zone of "induced radiation" that occupies much more space than the "sudden death" zone. Most of the extent of this "induced radiation" is temporary, but the inner part of the "induced radiation" zone is permanent for the game (unless a nuclear damper is used on it).
So comparing these I would say that meson weapons produce radiation as part of their "burst" but it's not permanent (no contamination or induced radiation, as with nuclear weapons) and it's not very much.
Comparing that with nuclear weapons (as treated in STRIKER) and we see that nuclear weapons produce several radii of effect, with only the innermost being a "sudden death" zone and all others being of lesser effect, the effect lessening as you get further away from Ground Zero.
Nuclear weapons in STRIKER also create a zone of "induced radiation" that occupies much more space than the "sudden death" zone. Most of the extent of this "induced radiation" is temporary, but the inner part of the "induced radiation" zone is permanent for the game (unless a nuclear damper is used on it).
So comparing these I would say that meson weapons produce radiation as part of their "burst" but it's not permanent (no contamination or induced radiation, as with nuclear weapons) and it's not very much.
Theophilus
SOC-13
After thinking about how a meson attack works, I've come to this conclusion:
The Meson Gun accelerates the particles at relativistic velocity, dilation slows delay til the mesons reach the target where they explode causing damage and radiation effects.
That being said, the larger the meson gun the larger the package of mesons delivered on target.
So here's my conclusion, the explosion is not one giant bang like a nuclear weapon as each individual meson decays and explodes indepent of the other mesons delivered. Therefore the meson attack is more like a string of firecrackers going off, all be it a string composed of sticks of dynamite, This leads to massive internal damage over a large area inside the target. The radiation effect is cumulative, inside the ship, each explosion adding more the the total "dose", while a miss might add no more than that recieved from the background radiation, and is easily shielded out by the ships radiation shielding.
As I said, I was thinking, which is always a dangerous thing.
The Meson Gun accelerates the particles at relativistic velocity, dilation slows delay til the mesons reach the target where they explode causing damage and radiation effects.
That being said, the larger the meson gun the larger the package of mesons delivered on target.
So here's my conclusion, the explosion is not one giant bang like a nuclear weapon as each individual meson decays and explodes indepent of the other mesons delivered. Therefore the meson attack is more like a string of firecrackers going off, all be it a string composed of sticks of dynamite, This leads to massive internal damage over a large area inside the target. The radiation effect is cumulative, inside the ship, each explosion adding more the the total "dose", while a miss might add no more than that recieved from the background radiation, and is easily shielded out by the ships radiation shielding.
As I said, I was thinking, which is always a dangerous thing.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I like that description and think it fits pretty well. It also allows (possibly) a visual track of the meson fire. I've always thought meson fire should be less precise if you follow. That is while the majority of the particles are delivered in the targeted area there should be a steady decay from the "muzzle" to twice the aimed range, a scatter effect if you will. With very little* at the ends (muzzle and double the range to target) and increasing (perhaps logarithmic) nearer the target point. I think that imposes a fair restriction on the "magic" of it while still making it an excellent weapon. So "deep" meson sites are not so very deep (and vulnerable to attack rather than invulnerable) and the intervening material will show some effect. Likewise (as depicted) ships will have an identifiable "muzzle" and need to allow for it to be open for firing.
...but maybe that's just me
