A T20/HG2 "starship" bridge is 2% or 20 dTons, whichever is greater. </font>[/QUOTE]I think they are confused between the Starship Bridge, 2% and the small craft bridge 20%.Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ron Vutpakdi:
The 20% bridge doesn't mean that the entire 20% is devoted to the bridge proper.
Oh yes, I see now, you're undoubtedly right.Originally posted by Bhoins:
I think they are confused between the Starship Bridge, 2% and the small craft bridge 20%.
Well, TNE used FF&S, which is 100% different from T20.Originally posted by Aramis:
I much prefer the TNE approach: Figure out your bridge crew, then tack on 1 ton apiece for Bridge Workstations.
Hunter would not go for it for T20.
The Bridge is more than just control stations. It is the control runs, it does include your 1 airlock, it originally included sensors and avionics and comms though now those capabilities are parts of your computers you still will need antenna arrays, wiring runs etc. Also landing gear has to be included someplace in non-airframe streamlined craft though the 5% you lose there can be better explained in control runs and control surfaces/thrust ducting or whatever.Originally posted by Jak Nazrith:
Ok, I just need to correct a misstatement of the rules. I reread them this weekend. There is a 20 ton minimum for the bridge with a "real" bridge size chart for the hull sizes. I extrapolated the 20% from working on a 100ton test ship. Oops! Per the rules, one airlock is included in each hull design "free of charge" and takes no space. Any additional airlocks take 3 tons of space. As far as galley's and corridors etc... that theoretically is taken into account by a portion of the staterooms not allocated to the staterooms themselves. But, depending on how good you are laying out deck plans, you could have lots of corridor spaces which will quickly eat into your entertainment/relaxation spaces. While I think that some additional area should be allocated to circulation spaces (corridors, vertical shafts, etc...) I don't think that should be "bridge". Maybe it would make more since if the rules said "5% min of ship should be retained for circulation spaces" and keep the bridge size by the chart in the rule book.
The 300ton freighter/adventure ship, that I'm almost finished converting, has a "real" 6 ton bridge, but on paper it is 20 tons of bridge! I just lost 14 tons of space in the conversion, and I'm not sure where it goes on the deck plans. I will issue two variants of the ship, "by the book" and the variant will "cheat" by recovering that extra 14 tons for cargo or what ever.
Originally posted by Jak Nazrith:
Perhaps I missed it, but it would be nice if a rule book included a description of "what's included" in something as critical as a bridge. I didn't see how many crew stations were included in a bridge. Is it one person per ton?
Also for the engineering compartment, is a control station or two included in the required tonnage for jump, maneuver, and power plant systems? My ship requires 2 engineers. It has Jump 4, Maneuver 4, and a power plant that produces 36ep, (enough to power the systems with a +4 to agility). I made sure there was enough room for a console with two chairs in the main engineering compartment.
Originally posted by Bhoins:
[QB] The tonnage for Powerplants, Maneuver Drives, and Jump Drives does include monitoring and control stations. Taking a Fusion Powerplant as an example. A Powerplant would include the bottle, the fuel feed, the coolant, shielding, turbines, or however the power is transferred, wires, monitoring stations and controls.
Do you really want to try to calculate all that stuff?![]()
Nope. Just that some design systems say something like..."You will need 1 work station for every (x) tons of ship drives and power plants. These act as monitoring/work stations for the engineers. Each work station is .5 tons...) That's a rough example. Just curious. Didn't want to miss anything that could fall through the cracks in a T20 write-up.![]()
Well, my House Rule for HG2/T20 is that 10% of the Bridge Allocation is actually the default "Ship's Locker". In large ships this may be distributed in several locations. I have an Imperial regulation that states that cargo cannot be carried in it (safety issues). Customs inspectors can, if they chose, levy fines for finding anything they deem as cargo in the Ship's Locker, with fees of Cr250, Cr500, Cr1000, and finally Cr5000 per subsequent offense. Most starship captains don't bother to use it for anything other than stowage of gear (survival/tool/suit etc.).Originally posted by Jak Nazrith:
Per the rules, one airlock is included in each hull design "free of charge" and takes no space. Any additional airlocks take 3 tons of space. As far as galley's and corridors etc... that theoretically is taken into account by a portion of the staterooms not allocated to the staterooms themselves. But, depending on how good you are laying out deck plans, you could have lots of corridor spaces which will quickly eat into your entertainment/relaxation spaces. While I think that some additional area should be allocated to circulation spaces (corridors, vertical shafts, etc...) I don't think that should be "bridge".
The exact capabilities provided by advanced technology generally aren't covered as far as accomodations are concerned. I wish they were. If we have a miraculous jump drive, magical thrusters, and beam cannons, why can't the standard stateroom at TL-12+ be auto-reconfigureable from Single to Double Occupancy by changing the accomodations preferences settings in the ship's computer?Originally posted by jasper:
speaking of beds why can't the single grown into a double or king size.
Imagine the bed is similar to roll of brown paper towels you see in the mens bathrooms.
All you do is pull it out to width (single, double, etc) put down the outside legs, hit a button and you have your own Jasper Auto adjustable bed.
That's a clever idea! It can also be used for dealing with non-humans that may have different comfort requirements.Originally posted by jasper:
speaking of beds why can't the single grown into a double or king size.
Imagine the bed is similar to roll of brown paper towels you see in the mens bathrooms.
All you do is pull it out to width (single, double, etc) put down the outside legs, hit a button and you have your own Jasper Auto adjustable bed.
Good spot there on the T20 rules. So in T20 a Capital ship only needs to allocate bridge once and gets Main Bridge, Flag Bridge and Aux Con all in one allocation? (Or in other words the AHL only has one Bridge even though the deck plans show 3?)Originally posted by Aramis:
In CT and T20, the systems include the worksations.
In TNE, T4, and MT, the worstation volumes are NOT included. In TNE and T4, you explicitly add workstations for the engineering, gunnery, and other such crewmen. Maintenance access is apparently included.
In MT, it includes space for access and maintenance, but not the controls themselves, which are added in a later step.
T20 bridge contents are in left column, page 262.
Good spot there on the T20 rules. So in T20 a Capital ship only needs to allocate bridge once and gets Main Bridge, Flag Bridge and Aux Con all in one allocation? (Or in other words the AHL only has one Bridge even though the deck plans show 3?) </font>[/QUOTE]But if the AHL allocates only one Bridge dTon allotment, one hit destroys all three of those deckplan compartments, because they're all only one design-time component. THB p.166 Special Subtable: rolls of 96-98: Bridge Destroyed. There is no mention of Aux Con or Flag Bridge hit locations.Originally posted by Bhoins:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:
In CT and T20, the systems include the worksations.
In TNE, T4, and MT, the worstation volumes are NOT included. In TNE and T4, you explicitly add workstations for the engineering, gunnery, and other such crewmen. Maintenance access is apparently included.
In MT, it includes space for access and maintenance, but not the controls themselves, which are added in a later step.
T20 bridge contents are in left column, page 262.
Good spot there on the T20 rules. So in T20 a Capital ship only needs to allocate bridge once and gets Main Bridge, Flag Bridge and Aux Con all in one allocation? (Or in other words the AHL only has one Bridge even though the deck plans show 3?) </font>[/QUOTE]But if the AHL allocates only one Bridge dTon allotment, one hit destroys all three of those deckplan compartments, because they're all only one design-time component. THB p.166 Special Subtable: rolls of 96-98: Bridge Destroyed. There is no mention of Aux Con or Flag Bridge hit locations.Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bhoins:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:
In CT and T20, the systems include the worksations.
In TNE, T4, and MT, the worstation volumes are NOT included. In TNE and T4, you explicitly add workstations for the engineering, gunnery, and other such crewmen. Maintenance access is apparently included.
In MT, it includes space for access and maintenance, but not the controls themselves, which are added in a later step.
T20 bridge contents are in left column, page 262.