BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Why Thank you for your kind words.
All in the family
- Thread starter jhulse
- Start date
On staterooms: Does each stateroom contain its own life support? Air purifiers, water reclamation, etc...? Or is it in a centralized location somewhere in engineering or another portion of a ship? If separate, is there a rule of thumb for sizing? Like .5 tone per 10 passengers for example? If a ship takes a hit in "life support" during combat, just wondering where characters actually go to fix or replace it. Can you turn off the life support in various parts of the ship? etc...
Lots of questions I know because I'm formulating a portion of an adventure aboard a starship scenario, and I'm still learning all the tricks of the trade for building in T20.
Thanks for any input.
Lots of questions I know because I'm formulating a portion of an adventure aboard a starship scenario, and I'm still learning all the tricks of the trade for building in T20.
Thanks for any input.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
In CT/HG (LBB2/LBB5)it is assumed to be part of the space for each occupant. (A piece of that 4 Tons per stateroom or .5 tons per small craft couch.) Whether you make that physically in the staterooms or not is up to each ship's designer. Generally, in published deckplans it is subsumed in either void spaces, (like between decks) or as part of engineering. T20 is very strongly influenced by LBB5 so should follow those rules. Personally I like putting it in engineering, in amongst all that other stuff that needs to be maintained.
I was considering placing a portion of in the "the bridge". This takes care of portions of the ship that are not part of each stateroom: corridors, common areas, galleys, etc...
In GT you calculate it separately, so many tons of life support per person. You can subdivide the life-support in separate areas for separate portions of the ship, or place the whole thing in one room. But if you take a hit... good luck breathing or drinking fresh water
.
Any idea how to size a galley? Laundry facilities are located as a part of the galley, yes? I'm working on a liner design, which will be part of an adventure. That's why all the pesky questions.
In GT you calculate it separately, so many tons of life support per person. You can subdivide the life-support in separate areas for separate portions of the ship, or place the whole thing in one room. But if you take a hit... good luck breathing or drinking fresh water
.Any idea how to size a galley? Laundry facilities are located as a part of the galley, yes? I'm working on a liner design, which will be part of an adventure. That's why all the pesky questions.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Well, I always (CT anyway) kept Engineering (Drives) as a seperate section (behind a bulkhead) from the rest of the ship (Main) so I'm contrary to Bhoins on that point.
Life support was a percentage of the bridge allotment, 1ton ls/100ton hull iirc, of which half was the recycler units (in 1/2ton permanent modules) and half was the supplier/filter units (again in 1/2ton modules but replaceable*). I usually placed them adjacent to the bridge or main common space in my deckplans (behind access panels).
* Recharged/cleaned by starports A-D but typically just a swapped unit, empty for full, at normal cost, or a small deposit if you want to carry extra, like for extended missions
A bridge hit takes out life support in this scheme which is part of why bridges are so critical and vulnerable no matter the size. Of course (and off topic here) im(C)tu a bridge hit is handled more like a computer hit in book 2.
I've never been a strong believer in the ability of a ship (especially a huge one) to rapidly decompress the entire hull before battle to avoid explosive decompression, and then magically repressurize the whole hull after regardless of damage. So ships don't routinely do it imtu, instead they just suit up prior to engagement and if the ship loses pressure it's only in a limited area and the crew are fine (barring a crew hit of course).
Oops missed the galley etc. question bit. Back in a bit with a link to my old CT take on the whole deal.
Life support was a percentage of the bridge allotment, 1ton ls/100ton hull iirc, of which half was the recycler units (in 1/2ton permanent modules) and half was the supplier/filter units (again in 1/2ton modules but replaceable*). I usually placed them adjacent to the bridge or main common space in my deckplans (behind access panels).
* Recharged/cleaned by starports A-D but typically just a swapped unit, empty for full, at normal cost, or a small deposit if you want to carry extra, like for extended missions
A bridge hit takes out life support in this scheme which is part of why bridges are so critical and vulnerable no matter the size. Of course (and off topic here) im(C)tu a bridge hit is handled more like a computer hit in book 2.
I've never been a strong believer in the ability of a ship (especially a huge one) to rapidly decompress the entire hull before battle to avoid explosive decompression, and then magically repressurize the whole hull after regardless of damage. So ships don't routinely do it imtu, instead they just suit up prior to engagement and if the ship loses pressure it's only in a limited area and the crew are fine (barring a crew hit of course).
Oops missed the galley etc. question bit. Back in a bit with a link to my old CT take on the whole deal.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Laundry Facilities are unlikely to be in the Galley. A Galley is a kitchen. Only in provate residences are they likely to occupy similar space. In a commercial environment it is extremely unlikely that the Galley and Laundry would be colocated. (Health Code problems.) The chance of contaminating the food with either something on the clothes or detergents, cleaning chemicals, fabric softners, etc. is too high. I have never seen laundry facilities represented on a deckplan though. Depending on how clothes are cleaned at TL-9 and higher, especially since clean water would generally be at a premium it may even be a function of the clothes closet in which you store clothes you aren't wearing. (I recently saw a clothes dryer that was designed to dry clothes that were hanging up, in a closet type arrangement.)
The ISCV King Richard (FASA) has laundry facilities, but unfortunately I don't have the 15mm plans for it yet so I can't tell you what they look like on deckplans. And there are quite a few problems and departures from normal ship design with the King Richard. (Even contradictions within the material in Action Aboard.)
However knowing what I do about food safety, I managed restaurants in a former life, I can virtually guarantee that the laundry facilities are not in the galley.
The ISCV King Richard (FASA) has laundry facilities, but unfortunately I don't have the 15mm plans for it yet so I can't tell you what they look like on deckplans. And there are quite a few problems and departures from normal ship design with the King Richard. (Even contradictions within the material in Action Aboard.)
However knowing what I do about food safety, I managed restaurants in a former life, I can virtually guarantee that the laundry facilities are not in the galley.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Dan,
I never said it was part of engineering I said I like to place it there so it is easier to maintain and out of the passenger access area.
There is no reference to the bridge tonnage including the life support in either LBB2 or LBB5. However, I didn't see the reference to lifesupport being part of the stateroom tonnage in LBB2 or LBB5 either. It is mentioned as part of a small craft couch though. T20 starship design does specifically state that lifesupport is included in the stateroom tonnage. (THB pg. 277.)
When you think about it that makes more sense. A bulk freighter with little-no passenger facilities is going to require alot less lifesupport than an equal sized passenger liner.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
OK, back after a quick serch and no luck. Thought I had posted here to COTI a while back. Oh well, I grabbed an older version from the web and posted it to the CT section to avoid cluttering this thread too much. Click below...
Starship Deckplan Guide
Just one thing Jak, you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself
Do it the way you feel is right since that's going to be the best product you can produce. Too many ideas, especially if different, and an attempt to incorporate them all, or some of each, could just be a real mess
Starship Deckplan Guide
Just one thing Jak, you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself
Do it the way you feel is right since that's going to be the best product you can produce. Too many ideas, especially if different, and an attempt to incorporate them all, or some of each, could just be a real mess
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Ah, my misunderstanding.
I think I developed my line of thinking from the fact that bridge tonnage was so large and undefined. Except for a vague "Recycling Stations" reference in Book 5 (1st ed) being a suggested part of the stateroom allottment I see no specific mention of life support either. That could be life support, almost certainly it is.
In my opinion the bulk of the life support is going to be keeping the atmosphere of the whole ship, empty or not, habitable so that's what I based it on and why imtu a bulk frieghter and a liner of the same size will have the same "life support" requirements. They will have very different "sophont support" requirements which is where the stateroom part of the equation comes in.
I don't see the T20 1/2ton of life support per stateroom as reasonable but that's my opinion too.
Yep! I usually do when I can't find cannon!Originally posted by far-trader:
OK, back after a quick search and no luck. Thought I had posted here to COTI a while back. Oh well, I grabbed an older version from the web and posted it to the CT section to avoid cluttering this thread too much. Click below...
Starship Deckplan Guide
Just one thing Jak, you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself
Do it the way you feel is right since that's going to be the best product you can produce. Too many ideas, especially if different, and an attempt to incorporate them all, or some of each, could just be a real mess
I just wanted to make sure there wasn't already a T20 rule in these areas. I may integrate portions of GT into the design sections of T20.
For instance... T20 ship write-ups have a "Bunks" section on each ship design, but there are no rules that I can find in the design section which covers bunkrooms. (I'll go over it again when I get home tonight just to make sure.) GT includes bunkrooms in the design sequence.
I never thought of laundry facilities myself until someone mentioned it earlier in this thread. But if passengers and crew members are staying in jump space a week or so in between stops, it makes since for there to be a facility like that aboard each ship. Not only passenger clothing and staff uniforms, but bed sheets, table cloths, etc... Perhaps a high passage includes the price of washing passenger cloths, but middle and working passengers have to pay "per load" as it were. Otherwise, their luggage might get stinky after a while...
Just more complications I suppose. Oh yes, I didn't mean that the laundry be part of the galley where food is prepared, but just that it might be a portion of the required tonnage for a galley. Just think of it in as a hotel or your own home. Many laundry rooms are located adjacent to the kitchen / utility room. That's what I was kind of thinking. Imagine a galley with a storage closet for food stuff etc. on one side, and the laundry facilities in a small room on the other side. But I'll just probably wing it.
Thanks for all the great input guys.
Jaknaz
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
As for bunks they are in the T20 vehicle design section I think. Maybe that's all they were meant for, but yeah it should be an option in the ship design too. Probably a half ton per and require the fresher additionally per 20 bunks (iirc). Mixing GT and CT/T20 probably won't work well, the take on passenger volume requirements seems very different I think.
RandyT0001
SOC-13
Bhoins:
I included laundry facalities on my deckplan for the long liner located here:
http://spacecraft.sfrpg.net/
A while back there was a discussion about the need for laundry facalities at the yahoo group:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/deckplans/
You'll have to join the group and search the archives to find them.
IMTU air heating/cooling and adjustments to artificial gravity can be done on an individual stateroom basis. The water is routed through piping to engineering for purification and recyling. The air is cycled through engineering to filter out CO2 through ducts alongside the piping located in the overhead space between decks.
I included laundry facalities on my deckplan for the long liner located here:
http://spacecraft.sfrpg.net/
A while back there was a discussion about the need for laundry facalities at the yahoo group:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/deckplans/
You'll have to join the group and search the archives to find them.
IMTU air heating/cooling and adjustments to artificial gravity can be done on an individual stateroom basis. The water is routed through piping to engineering for purification and recyling. The air is cycled through engineering to filter out CO2 through ducts alongside the piping located in the overhead space between decks.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Laundry would be needed, IMO, at TL-11 and below.
At TL-12 and higher, clothing cleans itself.
At TL-12 and higher, clothing cleans itself.
LSS are in the deckspace in my hullplans 3m per deck with 2.4m clear to ceiling means that 20% is unnaccounted for. Thats 0.8 dtons of that 4 dton "stateroom" are unaccounted for. Plenty of room, eve accounting for wires, pipes and vents.
Laundry? I thought that was a function of the magical 'fresher. But a ship carrying 1st class passengers would probably have a separate laundry.
Laundry? I thought that was a function of the magical 'fresher. But a ship carrying 1st class passengers would probably have a separate laundry.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
But only if their clothing needs to be laundered.
Steward to Passenger: "No sir! Just stuff them in a bag and launder them at the next port. This spare set will have to do for you until then."
ROS wrote "But only if their clothing needs to be laundered."
In the future don't' they have antiperspirant / deodorant pills?
"Yes that's right folks! Just two tablets a day and you'll never have to shower again! But if you order in the next 5 minutes, you'll get a bottle of anti-ANYTHING mouthwash for FREE! Guaranteed to clean even the funkiest Hiver mouth!..."
(sigh) sorry, it's late and the mind is going...
In the future don't' they have antiperspirant / deodorant pills?
"Yes that's right folks! Just two tablets a day and you'll never have to shower again! But if you order in the next 5 minutes, you'll get a bottle of anti-ANYTHING mouthwash for FREE! Guaranteed to clean even the funkiest Hiver mouth!..."
(sigh) sorry, it's late and the mind is going...
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Laundry of the future might not be the same as laundry of today. I do believe that the ship's steward would be responsible for cleaning the laundry of the high passengers. The point I was making is that I have only seen one licensed ship where laundry facilities were even mentioned, and not one of the GDW designs had laundry facilities.
Hang your dirty clothes up in the closet, close the closet and they are anti-bacterial vapored, steamed and dried wihtout ever leaving the closet. And that is just one option. If you are a high passenger then the Steward comes in and tidies up your room and hangs your clothes up for you. The closet does the rest.
I am sure there are a couple dozen similar ways this could work. THe big question is that once we get to TL-9+ will we even recognize laundry facilities?
Hang your dirty clothes up in the closet, close the closet and they are anti-bacterial vapored, steamed and dried wihtout ever leaving the closet. And that is just one option. If you are a high passenger then the Steward comes in and tidies up your room and hangs your clothes up for you. The closet does the rest.
I am sure there are a couple dozen similar ways this could work. THe big question is that once we get to TL-9+ will we even recognize laundry facilities?
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Going, going, gone! Sold! To the droyne on row 3!
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
OMG! I'm living in the wrong TL.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Couldn't laundry facilities be built into those multi-purpose freshers? Or alternatively, just get showered fully clothed
Odd that even large ships like the Azhanti, and even Kinunir, that laundry facilities aren't included?
This could explain that odd smell that the scout/courier picks up
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