mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Well we know that the transplanted Zhodani evolved into two races and that modern Zhodani are the result of the hybridisation of those two, plenty of scope for ethnicity to express itself.
All things Zhodani
- Thread starter Murph
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GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
It is also evident that the plague was genetically targeted. It is is not a stretch to assume that it hit the older Zhodani genomes harder than those who had developed just enough resistance, or mutated away from a particular gene marker. The plague also continued to be lethal long after that initial two-thirds died; the Zhodani didn't really bring it under control for centuries.
Genetic differentiation also requires isolation of a populace, and Zhdant is more unified geologically. The second continent was all Chirpers.
Then there is the original surviving populace of around 50,000, and two subsequent ice ages.
Their sun is dimmer, and their polar regions probably even less habitable than Earth's, so the drivers of variable skin tones are much reduced. On the other hand, Zhdant's old Human territory (not counting Qiknavra) is close to the same amount of land surface as Earth, at least on paper. Ice sheets may reduce that on a permanent basis near the poles.
I don't discount the idea that the Zhodani, and possibly quite a few others, were tinkered with by their Ancients patrons and may have been "locked" in some way. I don't think it occurred in every case, though.
Taken all together, these lead me to disagree that the Zhodani are as ethnically variable as Terrans. More variable than shown, certainly, but I can count the number of pictures of Zhodani bare faces in all Traveller products on both hands (and maybe a toe or two if I include GURPS), and most of those are line art.
Genetic differentiation also requires isolation of a populace, and Zhdant is more unified geologically. The second continent was all Chirpers.
Then there is the original surviving populace of around 50,000, and two subsequent ice ages.
Their sun is dimmer, and their polar regions probably even less habitable than Earth's, so the drivers of variable skin tones are much reduced. On the other hand, Zhdant's old Human territory (not counting Qiknavra) is close to the same amount of land surface as Earth, at least on paper. Ice sheets may reduce that on a permanent basis near the poles.
I don't discount the idea that the Zhodani, and possibly quite a few others, were tinkered with by their Ancients patrons and may have been "locked" in some way. I don't think it occurred in every case, though.
Taken all together, these lead me to disagree that the Zhodani are as ethnically variable as Terrans. More variable than shown, certainly, but I can count the number of pictures of Zhodani bare faces in all Traveller products on both hands (and maybe a toe or two if I include GURPS), and most of those are line art.
dmccoy1693
SOC-13
What happens to Zhodani that have a PSI strength of like 2-3? I mean, like if a prole had a kid with a low level PSI strength. Would he still be an intendant? Would he get some basic telepathy training and basically be used as an administrator among psions? Do they work on lower populated cities where a full member of the thought police cycles through and adjusts people as necessary before moving onto the next small city?
If we take CharGen as a basis, see that if you roll a SOC of 9+ you are psionically trained, regardless your PSI. So it seems they keep their social standing, though they are likely to be put in a post that does not require high psionics (as you hinted).
I am not looking at any particular CharGen ruleset at the moment, but as I recall, everybody has some initial PSI rating (even if low). Proles are only elevated to Intendant Class if it is revealed (thru childhood testing) that they meet a minimum PSI score threshold, at which point they are removed from their families and trained as Psis/Intendants.
However, children of Intendants and Nobles are automatically trained (and inherit their parents' social position) regardless of high or low PSI score.
This also reflects McPerth's comments above from a CharGen/Ruleset standpoint.
That's not consistent with CharGen, as explained above.
Another thing would be the inheritance rules for the Zhodani. I've not read anything about them, but, IMTU the highest PSI son inheritates the title for a noble. In case of ties, the habilities each son have decide, and, in last instance, the elder.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A character that rolls an 11 or 12 for soc is a noble. They can have any psi rating and can receive bonuses to psi score if they pick the right career.
An intendant with a rolled soc of A likewise can have any psi score.
A prole, soc 9-, is in the fortunate place that if they happen to roll a psi score of 9+ then they are elevated to soc A immediately and are now in the intendant caste.
An intendant with a rolled soc of A likewise can have any psi score.
A prole, soc 9-, is in the fortunate place that if they happen to roll a psi score of 9+ then they are elevated to soc A immediately and are now in the intendant caste.
So once on the noble ladder, they can never be knocked off. That would lead to A LOT of nobles....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I suppose the aim of Zhodani society would be to eventually have universal psionic training for all.
There may be proles out there who only test 7 on their psi, but if trained would have teleportation or the special talent.
There may be proles out there who only test 7 on their psi, but if trained would have teleportation or the special talent.
Interesting point, but I don't see why they don't already have universal psionic TESTING, since they have the Games. There are certainly some issues with the whole social setup, but I still find the Zhodani interesting as a whole.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Testing for potential IS universal, per published sources. The "problem" with pursuing training at a lower potential is one of scale. Unlike the Imperium where psionics have been esoteric at best and illegal at worst, the Zhodani have access to the full statistically significant range of potentials and talents. "Rare" talents are still going to have millions of users.
If the Zhodani decided tomorrow to lower the threshold for training from 9 to 7 (for example) they would instantly double the number of people they are training, and that assumes Potential actually does follow a 2d6 bell curve instead of just using it as a game artifice. It is quite possible that dropping from 9 to 7 would increase the number of Intendants by tenfold or more. Where do they put them all?
G. Kashkanun Anderson
SOC-13
You are assuming that that the fertility rates for high status Zhodani are above or at the replacement rate (about 2.1 children per woman). Given what we know about the relationship between fertility and social status in economically advanced societies, this is likely not the case. It is not at all a stretch, in fact, to imagine that the influx of high-talent proles into the Intendant class is necessary in order to maintain enough nobles to rule the Consulate.
From what I've read, the Zhodani have never shown any interest in anything remotely that egalitarian. Rather, much of the social energy of their state is designed to maintain the order as it stands via peer pressure and mind conditioning, with only raw psionic power being allowed as a condition for bridging the gap.
At least that's how my CT sources play it out. MgT/T5 may say something different about that these days.
Keep in mind that Zhodani are ideologically racist to begin with. And it is unlikely that they limit their smugness to just non-Zhodani humans; few racists are ever that generous, once they've embarked down that slippery slope.
GKA, the CT sources state a slightly different goal: Their genuine goal is universal happiness. Even if that happiness comes at the price of one's mental integrity.
It's the largest brainwashing cult...
Everyone's happy... and if they aren't, they're either given what they need to be happy, or altered to be happy with what they are.
It's the largest brainwashing cult...
Everyone's happy... and if they aren't, they're either given what they need to be happy, or altered to be happy with what they are.
Lesser known psionics uses by Zhodani
Some psionic uses I guess are quite notmal among the Zhodani, though never have (AFAIK) been discussed (probably ani-Zhodani and anti-psionic Imperial bias has something to do):
Psionic emergency personnel:
Example 1:
operator: please state your emergency
caller: my husband seems to be enduring a heart attack
opeator: the doctor will come now, please, tell us your location
The doctor takes his emergency bag, uses clairvoyance to watch the patient location and teleports there, assisting him in no time. Once there, life detection tells him the patient is still alive, and a clairvoyance scan of his coronary arteries allows the doctor to see they are only partially clogged and applies some meds, saving his life...
Example 2:
The firefighter sees a youg boy on a balcony in the building in flames screaming for help. He looks at him and telekinetically raises him from the balcony, gently putting him safe on the ground, where emrgency medical teams can help him.
See that possibilities are limitless, more so if you include psionic powers as pyrokinesis (to lower the temperature of a feverish pateint), etc...
Psionic art:
As the K'kree use odors in art, how can psionics be applied to it?
Maybe there are some sculptures or paintings that can have other meanings if clairvoyence is used on them...
Telekinesis may allow for wonderful dancing (by using them to levitate) or malabarisms...
May psionics be recoreded? Imagine some telepathic recordings, mostly if using empathy in conjunction with films, music or readings...
Again, possibilities are many...
Some psionic uses I guess are quite notmal among the Zhodani, though never have (AFAIK) been discussed (probably ani-Zhodani and anti-psionic Imperial bias has something to do):
Psionic emergency personnel:
Example 1:
operator: please state your emergency
caller: my husband seems to be enduring a heart attack
opeator: the doctor will come now, please, tell us your location
The doctor takes his emergency bag, uses clairvoyance to watch the patient location and teleports there, assisting him in no time. Once there, life detection tells him the patient is still alive, and a clairvoyance scan of his coronary arteries allows the doctor to see they are only partially clogged and applies some meds, saving his life...
Example 2:
The firefighter sees a youg boy on a balcony in the building in flames screaming for help. He looks at him and telekinetically raises him from the balcony, gently putting him safe on the ground, where emrgency medical teams can help him.
See that possibilities are limitless, more so if you include psionic powers as pyrokinesis (to lower the temperature of a feverish pateint), etc...
Psionic art:
As the K'kree use odors in art, how can psionics be applied to it?
Maybe there are some sculptures or paintings that can have other meanings if clairvoyence is used on them...
Telekinesis may allow for wonderful dancing (by using them to levitate) or malabarisms...
May psionics be recoreded? Imagine some telepathic recordings, mostly if using empathy in conjunction with films, music or readings...
Again, possibilities are many...
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Leaving aside all your other fascinating suggestions, I believe that, yes, psionics can be "recorded". There are two canonical bases for my belief.
First, there's the Possession Ball in the adventure of the same name. It's a physical object in which a psion's "consciousness" has been "downloaded".
Second, there's the entire psionics section in the Referee Eyes Only chapter of TNE's Regency Sourcebook. That section discusses the Imperium's various successes in developing mechanical, electronic, cybernetic, and/or whatever analogs to "organic" psionics.
Our Absent Friend Hans and I spitballed many ideas on this topic over the years. While we quibbled over details, we both felt psionics could be "recorded" in many different ways.
Thanks for the info. I was not sure about it, but it really opens a whole world about psionic art (even if it only can be enjoyed by other psionics).
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Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
may I suggest looking at the Hells Gate series by David Weber? they include a psionic society (that happens to be at pre-ww1 tech level, roughly), and is built around using different psionic talents. one part in particular is that telepaths can transmit not just a description on an event, but their entire memory of something, so that other telepaths receive a first person view of it, along with any emotions the original viewer felt. this can be done "live" (the novel has a scene where a telepath passes on her experience of a first contact going wrong to another who is safely out of harms way, and is able to record the whole fight up until she is knocked out)
