All things Zhodani

[GypsyComet]

I don't recall any discontent, it might be in one of the stupid TNE books where everything dies and falls apart.

There are "mysterious" signs of unrest in late Rebellion news items. This is later attributed to the Empress Wave, which basically destroyed Zhodani society from the top down. At the old TNE speed (approximately light speed) of the Empress Wave it would have been well into the Consulate by the 1120s, being very close to Zhdant itself. At the retconned speed (approx one parsec per year) from the Mongoose Zhodani book, the Wave is just about at the coreward edge of the sectors above Zhdant. That's still billions of Zhodani affected.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

And sure there are also political parties (or their equivalence), and some low level infighting in the government organs, but they are mostly concerned on the wellfare of society over their own interests (while not forgeting them), as this is how they have been raised.

I would agree that there is probably a stronger feeling of community (non-individual) connectivity, but "elites," by nature often feel above the law. The Zhodani noble class is pretty privileged. And in every "egalitarian" human society I've ever seen, including nearly every communitarian one, the privileged elite class often feels that the rules for the commoners don't apply to them.

Considering the basic honesty of the Zhodani and their quite secure society, I guess they see violence (at least against other citizens) as a sign of mental disorder (or at least stress), and I don't expect them to be hardened in those ways. As violent crime is so rare, why should they?

That is probably prevalent, but the Consulate, by that standard, in a relatively tiny island in a big sea of violence. All of the Zhodani neighbors have violent and often chaotic societies. Violence within a society is very different than violence against the other AKA outsider. And nearly every modern human society thinks of their armed forces as self defense forces rather than aggressors.

I even believe that in such a society, their recruiting pool for armed forces would be quite lower than our standards, as they must heavily indoctrinate their soldiers to do what they have always been told it's a sign of disorder. Of course, both psionics and their "knowledge" they're fighting to preserve their honest society from a "horde of untrustworty liars" help in this...

The Zhodani could not have survived if there wasn't someway to circumvent their societal values and prohibitions against violence... It takes hard men (...and women) to launch a Core Expedition, fight a Frontier War, or deal with unruly and chaotic Vargr... The Zhodani have figured out a way to enact violence within a rules-limited context.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[jec10]

How does one pronounce "Qiknavra"?

 

[maksimsmelchak]

How does one pronounce "Qiknavra"?

I look at the Aztec language for ideas.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Murph]

One of the many illogical things I loathe about TNE which beggar the imagination.

There are "mysterious" signs of unrest in late Rebellion news items. This is later attributed to the Empress Wave, which basically destroyed Zhodani society from the top down. At the old TNE speed (approximately light speed) of the Empress Wave it would have been well into the Consulate by the 1120s, being very close to Zhdant itself. At the retconned speed (approx one parsec per year) from the Mongoose Zhodani book, the Wave is just about at the coreward edge of the sectors above Zhdant. That's still billions of Zhodani affected.

 

[aramis]

How does one pronounce "Qiknavra"?

kick-nav-rah

Note that the initial K should be slightly harder than english allows, a heavily aspirated palatal plosive.

 

[Spartan159]

At the retconned speed (approx one parsec per year) from the Mongoose Zhodani book, the Wave is just about at the coreward edge of the sectors above Zhdant. That's still billions of Zhodani affected.

Uhh FTL radiation? Or am I misreading that?

 

[GypsyComet]

Uhh FTL radiation? Or am I misreading that?

You are not. It originated, according to 1248, as a psionic "push" to those fleeing the explosion of the galactic core, though I am no longer sure that origin or purpose still hold with Marc. It is primarily a psionic and superscience effect that, with the new speed, appears to be propagating through one of the layers of jump space not normally used by ships.

Originally the only things we knew about it were that it could make a Longbow installation go silent (Survival Margin) and was arriving at the Imperial border in approximately 1205. In the later 1248 material it was a huge EMP wavefront plus an urge to keep moving outward that was simply so strong that active psions went nuts while non-psions just felt the urge to move.

One of the many illogical things I loathe about TNE which beggar the imagination.

Some portion of the fanbase insists on applying known hard science to the setting as a limiter. My growing impression is that Marc is not one of those people.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Here's my problem with the Zhos: how does a group of all Zhodani characters have adventures in Zhodani space? If they are content with their lot in life, then where is the struggle for a basis of an adventure?

Can someone explain that to me?

 

[flykiller]

how does a group of all Zhodani characters have adventures in Zhodani space?

they don't. that is why traveller is set in the imperium, not the consulate.

(notice the same dynamic at work in how robotics and cyber are deprecated in the imperium.)

 

[whulorigan]

Here's my problem with the Zhos: how does a group of all Zhodani characters have adventures in Zhodani space? If they are content with their lot in life, then where is the struggle for a basis of an adventure?

Can someone explain that to me?

They go as crew on one of the Core Expeditions. Or they are trained operatives in free-space or client states just beyond the Zhodani border.

 

[Condottiere]

Minority Report.

 

[dmccoy1693]

they don't. that is why traveller is set in the imperium, not the consulate.

(notice the same dynamic at work in how robotics and cyber are deprecated in the imperium.)

But that's the thing, I can't envision a nuanced bad guy if I can't figure out their own internal struggles. I mean sure, the old standard, "they want to take over" always works but to me that is kind of "meh." Typically, a government or faction within a government will point to some external group or nation as the problem to incite the people to focus on them to keep the people from looking at their own internal problems. However, the Zhodani don't have internal problems.

"Criminal behaviours grow and fester in their mind...greed, acquisitiveness, violence, hatred, prejudice... and come to dominate their behaviour. In Zhodani society that energy, which otherwise might be channelled into criminal pursuits, is instead directed to the benefit of all." Alien Module 4, Zhodani p 188.

They're psionic Canadians. I mean, who would ever think of a Canadian as a bad guy?

They go as crew on one of the Core Expeditions. Or they are trained operatives in free-space or client states just beyond the Zhodani border.

So leave zhodani space?

Minority Report.

So government control run amuck? I can see that. Excessive mind alteringness. More Chinese than Canadian. The problem is with that is that that requires a certain level of discontent with the mind alteringness of the government, a level of discontent that the book claims does not exist in their society.

---------------------------

Here's the reason I'm asking. 3 of the 4 subsectors I've done for Foreven Worlds thus far has had serious Zhodani influence in them. But I punted on Zhodani problems. Massina's main problem is that the resources that should go to them are being sent to the Spinward Marches instead, preparing for the 5FW, leading to a certain level of discontent, but it is more designed for it to be pro-Imperium groups for spying missions. Tsokabar is full of empty worlds, failed colonies, combined colonies, and not well explored planets. So it is perfect for exploration and colonizing missions, retrieving stuff from failed colonies, and helping multiple colonies combine into one. Alespron has systems recently taken over by the Zhodani, making it perfect for insurgency games or being apart of the pacification process for the Zhodani.

But as I am layingout out the ideas behind the Alpha Quadrant of the Foreven Sector, The Imperium has to play a smaller role and more Zhodani-ness should come to the fore. Which I am having trouble with.

Here's a few ideas that I have and please tell me if any of these are ... well ... reasonable.

• A group of proles do not want to be altered and want to be discontent, if they so choose. They form a (for lack of a better term) support group. The Zhodani government starts taking members of the group in the middle of the night and altering their minds. This does raise sympathy for them but with no political recourse for the proles, this continues, despite the fact that the group is growing. This leads to people needing to be smuggled out of Zho space, resources needing moved and hidden so they can be used to support people do not want to be altered, intendants and nobles with sympathies towards such a group needing to keep their thoughts hidden and need to stay away from thought police at political events.
  
• Zho sympathizers from conquered worlds being moved to Zho proper worlds and being paraded around as heroes, mostly for propaganda purposes in support of the continued invasion effort and to drum up support for the coming 5FW. An incident on the sympathizers home world leaves mass numbers dead and the sympathizers open turn against the Consulate. This exposes mass unrest towards continued campaigns. So the players are part of a political based adventure that involves safeguarding the sympathizers and those in the government that want peace from the thought police as well as spreading the less violence to achieve their ends. Assassination attempts. Ship frequently gets mysterious malfunctions. etc

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Any other suggestion?

 

[flykiller]

In Zhodani society that energy, which otherwise might be channelled into criminal pursuits, is instead directed to the benefit of all." Alien Module 4, Zhodani p 188.

and in soviet union, all power is invested in proletariat!

yeah, sure. forward, comrade.

the Zhodani don't have internal problems

sure they do. they just don't define "internal problems" the way imperials would. on a farm, if two roosters are duking it out over who gets all the hens, would you describe the farm as having "internal problems"? if the farmer's daughters are having a spat over who gets the car for a hot date tonight, would you describe that farm as having "internal problems"? if the farmer is an alcoholic and beating the wife and blowing the family money on booze, would you describe that farm as having "internal problems"?

the consulate is psycho-controlled by a handful of individuals who find themselves in complete absolute uncontested unquestioned this-is-the-way-god-made-the-universe control of 1) deciding what is good and 2) altering the minds of others to conform. these elite gods will of course attempt this with each other - it's human nature, people don't agree, those who seek power over others seek power over others, etc etc etc - leading to a thousand psychic wars, whole populations brainwashed to believe what their immediate rulers believe, entire populations wiped out because of psychic contamination issues, etc etc etc. if you think the star wars clone army was a surprise and palpatine taking control of the senate was a display of the sith lord's power, multiply that by a thousand and you get the consulate.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I loosely recall something in the CT Zho AM, but I can't recall exactly what I read or what I inferred from it.

 

[GypsyComet]

Like a Texas native I know says about where he grew up, Zhodani space is a good place to be *from*.

The adventure possibilities are best when the PCs have crossed a border. Either Zhodani on some business beyond their border or some form of liar needing to do business within the Consulate. Hilarity ensues.

 

[Blue Ghost]

flykiller; yeah, pretty much that's how I see Zho space, and I'm pretty sure that's how they were meant to be presented or portrayed.

The "benign state for the benefit of all" BS is classic state run propaganda modus operandi. The Zho's think they're doing good, and according to the rules the psionic mind blanking and rewriting apparently "work" or are "of a benefit" and all that, but one wonders if that's really true in the OTU.

Might there not be some person who maybe has some latent memories of something from their childhood, and that causes a data cascade to re-re-write data to RAM that had been zipped away in the HD?

p.s. my confusion; I mistook Empress Wave for Virus ... all kind of the same thing though.

 

[GypsyComet]

my confusion; I mistook Empress Wave for Virus ... all kind of the same thing though.

To the extent that both contributed to the "nuke and pave" of Charted Space, and both were planned as part of updating the Fiction in Science Fiction.

 

[mike wightman]

flykiller; yeah, pretty much that's how I see Zho space, and I'm pretty sure that's how they were meant to be presented or portrayed.

From the corrupt Imperial point of view sure...

the thing about CT was that there was a story behind the story.

The "benign state for the benefit of all" BS is classic state run propaganda modus operandi. The Zho's think they're doing good, and according to the rules the psionic mind blanking and rewriting apparently "work" or are "of a benefit" and all that, but one wonders if that's really true in the OTU.

Unlike the pure BS of the Imperium being the land of the free...

The Zhodani are not a perfect society, but neither are they the bad guys that Imperial propaganda would try to paint them as.

 

[mike wightman]

To the extent that both contributed to the "nuke and pave" of Charted Space, and both were planned as part of updating the Fiction in Science Fiction.

Yup, both Virus and Empress wave were designed to change the setting.

Virus was to flatten the Imperium of old and allow for a bogeyman for players to worry about but ultimately defeat.

The Empress Wave was going to introduce psionics as a much more mainstream setting element.