Another look at damage and healing

[Jamus]

The problem is that the florid descriptions are not reflected in the actual rules very much.

They are if you factor in the usefulness of having all the electronic and targeting upgrades on the ACR as I have explained.

"Rifle" bullets -- say, the 7.62mm x 51 NATO round (aka .308 Winchester), the .30-06 (7.62mm x 63) round, or the Russian 7.62mm x 54) -- have significantly more energy than "Assault Rifle" bullets -- 5.56mm x 45 NATO; 7.62 x 39 Russian.

I agree. But in game terms the damage between a 7.62 nato and a 5.56mm would not be so significant as to bump the damage a d6 IMO. but you will note the rifle (7.62nato) has greater range than the assault rifle but the same range as the ACR, possible due to the ACRs improved sighting systems.

And Traveller descriptions of those weapons have indicated that they fire bullets in these classes. Thus a "Rifle" should do more damage than an "Assault Rifle".

In my experience both are equally lethal and the only real difference between the two would be range and possibly armor penetration. question is do you think the extra energy of the 7.62mm is enough to justify raising the damage a full d6 over the 5.56mm. To be honest it could be argued that traveller rifle/assault rifle damage is weak. How many people keep fighting after taking a shot to center mass? not many.

"Rifle" rounds are also much better against body armor than "assault rifle" rounds and have superior stopping power at long range. The US Army, for instance, is seriously considering replacing the 5.56mm x 45 round with a 6.8 mm Remington cartridge. Personally, I like the 7.62mm NATO round, but I assume the professionals know best...

I would prefer we drop the 5.56mm and go back to the 7.62 nato also.
As far as armor penetration I would say it depends on the load. a 5.56mm could be designed to be AP and have better AP quality than a 7.62mm. It is safe to say the question of ammo is very complicated and we are only dealing with the tech of one planet. who knows what could be possible in the future.

Oh I am too. I have to admit that I got quite a tingle when I saw that classic black cover with the red Traveller logo (though the font was changed and the Nike-style swash added nothing). I've said this before, but I guess it bears repeating. I do not think that my complaints are serious enough to render the game unplayable. I think that they should have been fixed before printing, but if a little roughness is the price of ditching the playtest T/E system and initiative system, then it's a price well worth paying IMHO.

Fair enough.

 

[tbeard1999]

They are if you factor in the usefulness of having all the electronic and targeting upgrades on the ACR as I have explained.
I agree. But in game terms the damage between a 7.62 nato and a 5.56mm would not be so significant as to bump the damage a d6 IMO. but you will note the rifle (7.62nato) has greater range than the assault rifle but the same range as the ACR, possible due to the ACRs improved sighting systems.

I don't object to them doing the same damage, especially if the rifle has a higher range. But my original complaint -- and it is kinda petty, I must admit -- was that the assault rifle damage was *higher*. It got corrected, though.

In my experience both are equally lethal and the only real difference between the two would be range and possibly armor penetration. question is do you think the extra energy of the 7.62mm is enough to justify raising the damage a full d6 over the 5.56mm.

MGT allows for damage adds, so you *could* go with a +1 or +2 in lieu of +1d6.

To be honest it could be argued that traveller rifle/assault rifle damage is weak. How many people keep fighting after taking a shot to center mass? not many.

I don't have a problem with damage since I run firepower intensive, somewhat cinematic campaigns.

I prefer we drop the 5.56mm and go back to the 7.62 nato also.

Maybe the idea is to give better performance, but still enable lots of ammo to be carried.

As far as armor penetration I would say it depends on the load. a 5.56mm could be designed to be AP and have better AP quality than a 7.62mm. It is safe to say the question of ammo is very complicated and we are only dealing with the tech of one planet. who knows what could be possible in the future.

Agreed. From our research for A Fistful of TOWs 2 and the upcoming FFT3, we found that there has been a substantial improvement in performance of heavier chemically propelled rounds. This has been due to the synergistic effects of better penetrator materials, better penetrator designs (and advances in manufacturing techniques) and better propellant. There's no technological reason such advances wouldn't be seen with small arms. The problem, as I noted in an earlier post, is economic. Replacing the standard infantry rifle is very expensive. Replacing a widely agreed-on ammunition type is very expensive. And until body armor technology and availability closes the gap, the current assault rifles are adequate to the task of killing the enemy. This is why the US Army is using a 40+ year old bullet and an improved version of a 40+ year old rifle.

Kinda like the British, who used the Brown Bess musket for a century...

 

[Apparition]

Has anyone here actually been hit while wearing body armour? All I have to go on is the telly, but there if someone takes a hit to their flak vest their knocked down and winded, probably bruised, maybe even a broken rib or two. Is this a realistic depiction?

I can field this question. I am an ex-infantry soldier and fought in iraq in 2003. While I was never shot, I have witnessed it happen on both sides. I have seen someone shot with a 7.62 round to the chest into body armor. Due to adreneline, he claimed he didnt notice anything more then what felt like a punch to the chest. On later inspection, he had a massive bruise the size of a softball around the impact area.

I have toyed with the combat system with mongoose and I am satisfied with the damage/healing. I have played other games where you can armor up yourself to be a walking tank, which at that point the game disconnects for me (cyberpunk). I am happy to see that someone in TL14 Combat armor can be injured by a good roll with a gauss pistol.....armor grants protection from kinetic energy being applied to a small area by dispersing it....it does not grant invenerablitily to bullets.