mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Exactly my take on it as well.
Are there wars between Nobles in the OTU?
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Not just merc companies - didn't you ever think it a bit odd that Imperial dukes maintain their own TL15 troops rather than rely on Imperial assets?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yes, the Imperium even buys up their services in times of inter-empire conflict - see the FFW.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
From when Cleon first decided to expand the Sylean Federation and give land grants to his board members and supporters.
Side with Clean - get world to govern (exploit).
Loyalty, honour and service to who? Cleon and his underlings of course.
There is an interesting bit in Marc's novel about how the nascent Imperium seeded the path to taking over distant worlds...
Like most bullies, can't deal with a real threat.
They gave fusion+ and makers away to those willing to swear fealty to the future Imperium, expanding your way in the near future... (see novel)
Again, they are swearing loyalty to Cleon but not to each other...
As far back as the Spinward Marches supplement and the Kinunir Adventure we knew the Imperium was rotten...
the FFW plot line and propaganda fooled people into vilifying the Zhodani and seeing the Impies as white hats - how wrong could people be
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Blatant territorial fights are unlikely at the Ducal level except around former or nascent Duchies (ie. subsectors) that do not currently have a Duke. Those areas are still not part of the neighboring Duchies, but the award of administration of adjacent territories is a big deal. Notice that Aramis Subsector is largely administered from the adjacent subsector in Deneb. We can thus tell who won that "war", whether it was in the skies over Aramanx or as influence peddling and political smears in the courts of Mora and Inar. The land is less important than the money. channeled Imperial taxes through one Duke or other, important and lucrative trade arrangements with one offworld market vs another, the right to speak for a few more worlds in the Moot or local Court to get what you want. All sources of conflict as well as methods of conflict.
Shooting wars are the Imperial Nobleman's tool of last resort, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
How the nobility behave in frontier sectors far away from direct Imperial rule is likely to be very different to how they behave in the core sectors.
The duke of Regina has control over the Imperial worlds in the Jewel subsector. I wonder how he feels about the appointment of a new duke to the Jewel subsector (see MgT canon for this one).
The duke of Regina has control over the Imperial worlds in the Jewel subsector. I wonder how he feels about the appointment of a new duke to the Jewel subsector (see MgT canon for this one).
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Probably hoping that the new guy knows what he's getting into. By 1105 Norris is likely suspicious that a new Frontier War is on the way.
Not all Imperial Nobles, and certainly not all Dukes, are going to be conniving, competitive bastards. The little guys are probably more likely to get into nasty squabbles over resources *in general*. That's their job, to some extent. If Imperial Dukes are getting dirty and violent, something has definitely gone wrong.
uh ... at conception? human nature.
not as expensive as when they are used against you. here is a major lesson in life, the universe and everthing - the biggest reason to have troops working for you is so they are not available to work against you. if you grasp that then you are well on your way to grasping all of politics.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
At this level of conflict, it's not zero sum.
*bag of popcorn and a coke as he reads the thread he started....*
Ho-baby! I like
.... okay ... yeah ... yeah ... good stuff. I feel some seeds coming on.
You know, for some reason, and you can call me crazy, but I somehow think that this was the direction the Imperium was originally going to take when CT was in its Glory Days, so to speak.
Interstellar intrigue. Good nobles verse villainous nobles, all the while there are threats from alien empires, "private little wars", smash-and-grab rescue or snatch ops. Some world with Ancient technology in a disputed border region, suddenly two fleets are squaring off while a massive battle takes place below. All the while the PCs are scrounging through the ruins trying to get to the artifact before the "bad noble" and his forces do so ... maybe they slug it out in the ruins.
Good stuff. More please
Ho-baby! I like
.... okay ... yeah ... yeah ... good stuff. I feel some seeds coming on.
You know, for some reason, and you can call me crazy, but I somehow think that this was the direction the Imperium was originally going to take when CT was in its Glory Days, so to speak.
Interstellar intrigue. Good nobles verse villainous nobles, all the while there are threats from alien empires, "private little wars", smash-and-grab rescue or snatch ops. Some world with Ancient technology in a disputed border region, suddenly two fleets are squaring off while a massive battle takes place below. All the while the PCs are scrounging through the ruins trying to get to the artifact before the "bad noble" and his forces do so ... maybe they slug it out in the ruins.
Good stuff. More please
You can have the dark interconnections without the metal or the hacking. It is overtly stated in various sources that the nobles own significant percent of XYZ megacorp. It also implied that the Imperium is hung up the idea of metal on top of meat. Must be part of the 1970's mentality that got Traveller going. I thought The Six Million Dollar Man was cool, but as a kid I did not want to replace my limbs. Well maybe my eye as I was soda bottle lense nearsighted and started liking girls.
OTOH, it may be right there where megacorps score because except for company worlds, they don't want to take rule the planet, just that the profits flow unabated.
OTOH, it may be right there where megacorps score because except for company worlds, they don't want to take rule the planet, just that the profits flow unabated.
I don't see wars between nobles, since one of the advantages of Nobility is the "Long View" and they see things in terms of bloodlines, etc. Now that does not mean that the infighting is any less vicious, because if anything it can be more vicious. The slash and burn of political maneuvering to ruin an opponent will seldom lead to combat or bloodshed. Think of modern academia, and the blood feuds and how petty, conniving, and back stabbing academics can be when life is not on the line.
Right that something might be a Viscount or a Marquis... henceforth war between noble.
If I rule a system, then lesser nobles have to abide by my ruling. F. Engels said it "In the last analysis the state is a group of armed men" i.e. muscle is the last resort to have laws enforced. "War" or "Police action" is victim related semantic: if I kill my Citizens it is a police action and if I kill somebody else's Citizens it is war.
On the other hand, covert action▮and low intensity proxy wars are a perfect way for a lesser power to destabilize a greater power that it would not openly chalenge. Why Baron X would leak money to anarchist bombers ... scheming and conniving... are the plot you roll for in Noble character generation.
Have fun
Selandia
In my second or third Traveller gaming group I had a friend who often paraphrased the saying; "Might makes right." In an empire fraught with petty rivalries and deep hurts among peers with long memories, I can't see how private little wars would not take place.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Border skirmishes and cattle raids are likely to be ignored by the Imperium.
Open warfare will have an unstated but understood sell by date.
Open warfare will have an unstated but understood sell by date.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Local nobility is an entirely different critter. They will have their world or themselves as their primary concern and reason for being obstreperous. IN THEORY they are entirely separate from Imperial Nobles, who are supposed to be more concerned with the big picture. IN PRACTICE the Imperial Nobility can't help but be made up of local folks fairly often, so partisanship happens, grudges over past deals are unavoidable, and both Local and Imperial nobility are going to mix it up.
The Locals, being essentially planetary rulers, are covered under the Imperial Rules of War. The Imperium is not stupid, and knows that its thousands of member worlds are NOT going to get along all the time. The Imperium would rather everyone got along, traded back and forth, and made all parties lots of money. Reality is that people are frequently stupid, stubborn, vain, and proud, and have long but selective memories. Including the local rulers. ESPECIALLY the local rulers.
Imperial nobles are supposed to be above all that, but, shockingly, are just as Human (or whatever) as everyone else. The difference that sticks is that they are NOT covered by the Imperial Rules of War, but are instead bound by their oaths of Fealty to the Emperor. Their conflicts are *supposed* to stay in the boardroom, the Ducal or Imperial Court, or the negotiating table. Open conflict, either their own or being dragged into a local squabble, does not look good and will hamper their careers, and possibly shorten their lives, if discovered. So they try to stay covert. Industrial sabotage to force a contract you lost to go back out to bid; "lost" shipments (and ships) to make a rival look less reliable; social traps to make a rival's heir look like a liability to throw a succession into doubt; news suppression and enhancement; blackmail, extortion, and murder by proxy.
Exactly my point. If someone's view of cyberpunk is limited to hacking and metal-over-meat, Traveller doesn't match up. (Yeah, you can do an individual hacking-and-metal world if you wanted to, but the CT rules don't cover it.) But the interconnections between the rulers and the corporations, corporate wars as proxy wars, etc.; all that is as -punk as you would see anywhere.
Not all maintain TLF troops, but certain majorly important ones do.
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