General Armor and Weapons As Mustering Out Benefits

[Condottiere]

A lot depends on the regional law level, where the government might not want a discharged soldier keeping hold of their service firearm and bullet protection.

Also, at some point, you can have fabrication machines crank out custom made clothing and shoes, that fit exactly; possibly, also pistol grips.

If any amount of time is spent in the field with cloth armour on, it would be a reluctant hand me down.

 

[Tobias]

Sure, but that's not a benefit of Mustering out.

This seems closer to what Mustering Out a mustering out benefit means. I was not in the military, so I don't know what happens today when you leave the service. If anything, modern military gets the VA as a "mustering out" benefit. Though can't say if that's the case versus simply gaining the status of "Veteran" and thus access.

I would argue that mustering out benefits are quite a bit of an abstraction. I mean, how does your former service "grant" you Intel +1 or Educ +1? Such "benefits" really point to MUBs being more about stuff you've accumulated and acquired during your active career.

 

[Dragoner]

I know someone whose Grandfather bought a .45 from a dealer walking between their tents in NJ right before they shipped out to WW1, said the guy sold them as "trench pistols". It was in original condition when I saw it, so they were leaving like that, it was a fairly crude piece of workmanship. This wasn't unusual, istr, including up through Vietnam, like officers would buy a stoner rifle or something.

 

[Condottiere]

Considering that the Allies appear to be contracting for firearms from anywhere, implies a certain shortage.

Outside the usual officer private procurement, then, I don't know how widespread this practice still is.

 

[Diveguy]

I would argue that mustering out benefits are quite a bit of an abstraction. I mean, how does your former service "grant" you Intel +1 or Educ +1? Such "benefits" really point to MUBs being more about stuff you've accumulated and acquired during your active career.

I also agree with Tobias on this - which also is matched by the bonus for gambling skill to the cash table. It's not like the service is writing you a bigger check when you leave, it just reflects funds you have squirreled away during your time in.

 

[Condottiere]

There are probably four items that are disputable:

1. sidearm

2. helmet

3. armour

4. electronics

Of those, I would think electronics would be kept, whether sensors or communications, because there would be settings that the military wouldn't want to get out.

 

[whartung]

Of those, I would think electronics would be kept, whether sensors or communications, because there would be settings that the military wouldn't want to get out.

Eh, for man portable electronics, may as well hand samples to everyone involved. Things get lost, found, stolen, traded. Especially in combat. Research, or "Special Ops" stuff is different. But things handed out to Joe Grunt, yea, those'll scatter like the wind.

 

[Dragoner]

Steal your buddy's gear, and then sell it. Pawn shops by army bases are always interesting.

 

[Condottiere]

I think they would have serial numbers lasered in.

 

[Drew]

There are probably four items that are disputable:

1. sidearm

2. helmet

3. armour

4. electronics

Of those, I would think electronics would be kept, whether sensors or communications, because there would be settings that the military wouldn't want to get out.

All of the items are turned in, especially sidearms and body armor. A Kevlar helmet would prompt a Report of Survey, but since it is under the $250 limit under the pamphlet, it would not have been submitted to the IRS for collection. Electronics like sidearms are part of the MTOE and would never be "given" away. A missing sidearm would prompt an AR-15 investigation and could result in criminal penalties.

 

[Skibdy]

Eh, for man portable electronics, may as well hand samples to everyone involved. Things get lost, found, stolen, traded. Especially in combat. Research, or "Special Ops" stuff is different. But things handed out to Joe Grunt, yea, those'll scatter like the wind.

It didn't happen in my wee corner of the Forces (unfortunately) but its conceivable that as the newer shinier and only slightly better EW type stuff comes in then some of the older stuff could be written off. If you have a mate who is doing the 'writing off' then things could fall into bergans etc. It happened with less important kit like uniform, tools etc so in a highly advanced military where more of this stuff is considered 'consumable' then why not night vis goggles or the like. Again, the GM will make the call.

 

[Condottiere]

Cheat mode - ship's locker.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

What armor and weapons do you allow for mustering-out benefits ? Thoughts ?

It depends on the story line for the character.

Most of the time, it's 'what's the weapon you carried around? And I do mean 'carried' as in what was always on your person?" The Scout's pistol, the Army Enlisted's personal rifle, etc.

I did have one player rolling up a Marine who got the SEH and a Knighthood. She asked what battle she got the Knighthood for, and we worked back the math from the campaign start date and it was a major battle on an airless world.... which pretty much means it happened in Battle Armor.

So.... yeah, I let her have the Battle Armor and a PGMP-14.

Added a new IMTU rule on the spot: Marines who get Knighted for valor in battle are supposed to keep their issue battle gear sort of like Scouts have detached duty Type-S's. The expectation is that you're only supposed to make use of it in two instances:
1) You are called to a Holiday celebration or other qualifying political event where The Emperor wants His Knights to show the flag in a big way.
2) You decide that there is sufficent threat to the Imperium that it's time to take yourself off the Reserves and go Active Duty. You'd better have a good reason, because now you're back under the ICMJ and can be court martialed.

Worked great. Player used the armor twice in an 18 month long, weekly game campaign. Once was boarding a Vargr ship that had raided an Imperial Preserve, and the other was in a climactic battle against the Zho who'd been manipulating things behind the scenes for months.

 

[BlackBat242]

All of the items are turned in, especially sidearms and body armor. A Kevlar helmet would prompt a Report of Survey, but since it is under the $250 limit under the pamphlet, it would not have been submitted to the IRS for collection. Electronics like sidearms are part of the MTOE and would never be "given" away. A missing sidearm would prompt an AR-15 investigation and could result in criminal penalties.

And that also depends... records get lost, etc.

I ended up with a full set of winter outfit - field jacket with liner, gloves, winter coat, insulated pants, boots - they had been issued to me when my squadron was deploying aboard ship - at that time we were in MAG-13. When we returned from that 6-month cruise to the Indian Ocean, MAG-13 had moved to a different base, and our squadron had been transferred to MAG-11. All of our supply records etc were supposed to have been transferred, but....

When I was discharged, I went to supply to check out - I had all the gear in my truck. However, Mag-11s records showed I had nothing checked out, so I said nothing and kept the gear.


Additionally, the weapon you muster out with might not be the one you had been assigned... it could have belonged to a casualty and got written off as "lost in combat" (especially if the troops had to withdraw from the battlefield under fire), or could have been a "battlefield pick-up" of an enemy weapon. While it is much harder than it used to be, even in Afghanistan & Iraq our soldiers managed to get approval to ship home (or carry back upon return to the States) many older weapons, especially those from earlier wars in those places (I have seen a lot of pics of Martini-Henrys & Martini-Enfields from the 1880s-90s, and Enfields (& Mausers, Nagants, etc) from WW1 or 2 that were seized or bought from civilians in Afghanistan that were approved for shipping back as private items).

The same with body armor... a lot of civilian organizations purchased body armor and shipped them to our troops when there was a shortage - they were never part of the military supply chain, and a good number of them came back stateside to soldiers' homes.

Or many other such irregular and undocumented (or even approved) ways to acquire equipment that you are not required to turn in when mustering out.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

The Prohibition of automatic weapons ownership by civilians in the US was not made official until 1934. Prior to that date, for example, the famous Thompson submachinegun, aka "Tommy gun", was advertised for sale to civilians - and legally sold to them. In Classic Traveller terms, the 1934 act raised the Law Level in the US regarding firearms to 4. (Possibly "3 plus licensing and fees" if you want to get that detailed.)

Even 1934 to 1986, you could buy brand new full-auto, you just had to go through the paperwork and pay for the tax stamp.
Now, you can go through the paperwork hoops, pay the stamp, and wait a long time... and buy a pre-1986 weapon.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

IMTU I actually tend towards a model of "Service members are typically given there service weapon when discharged, and are expected to maintain proficiency with it" for several of my polities. This provides a nice militia/reserve base to supplement the main forces when required. Sort of based on the Swiss model as it were, but not 100%.

It's the (much cheaper!) Army equivalent of the Detached Duty Scout Type-S : Rather than put it in storage, use it to do some good in the galaxy

 

[whartung]

So.... yeah, I let her have the Battle Armor and a PGMP-14.

Honestly, they should have de-milled that PGMP. Great for a keepsake, mount it on the wall, "SEH Battle of Bovar IV -- 1105". Letting those out in the wild seems...dangerous.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

Honestly, they should have de-milled that PGMP. Great for a keepsake, mount it on the wall, "SEH Battle of Bovar IV -- 1105". Letting those out in the wild seems...dangerous.

More dangerous than the naughty things one can do with a Type-S if they were so inclined?
Or a Type-A?

If you can't trust the SEH holder... who can you trust?

 

[Condottiere]

Optionally, just make it a gift certificate, limited by technological level, amount, and security clearance.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

The local environment might make a lot of difference...The rules for small arms are not the same in the UK as they have been in (say) Pakistan or Afghanistan or Somalia. Local militias with decentralised command and law level 0 would have a far lower audit ability than a highly centralised version in a country with law level 10.

"Armour is illegal" - is OK except that hard vacc suits are usually better than low tech military armours. And those are necessary work equipment in many systems.

The Imperium itself has a very lax law level. And almost any ship can arm itself to the teeth without any paperwork. Just don't look to take it through the port boundary. If you can land a vessel with a 250MW laser, a gauss rifle is hardly a major issue.

Similarly, chemical weapons are often banned, but your ship has 10 dTons of cryogenic fuel that will form a horrible boiling liquid vapour explosion if you open the right valve and there is oxygen and a nearby flame. Even the life support systems can be used as a weapon if they run the oxygen content high-enough.

So I let the players take whatever they have a plausible cause to take...and then make sure that Customs treat off-world vessels and passengers as highly suspect. Yes you can openly carry military grade weapons...but if you do, every local will view you has potential trouble - and their law enforcement will be ready to turn up and out gun you.

And if you attempt to sneak a weapon past customs, or succeed and are subsequently noticed to have done so, that out of the way secure location is beckoning.