Atlas of the Imperium
- Thread starter RainOfSteel
- Start date
Personally, I like to generate new areas of space. Can anyone tell me if Verge Sector has an official map? I am setting up a pocket empire for TNE in the edge of the claw and don't to rewrite history. I know it isn't part of any domain so I am guessing it is "open" to referees for doing their own thing. If not, I'll just have to pretend that it is somewhere else in the universe. I am not going to throw away all the work i have done on it so far.
Shadowdancer
SOC-14 1K
Yeah, it sort of does. You can find the map and UWPs here: Verge link
Shadowdancer
SOC-14 1K
I think the star system placements and the UWPs were generated for the Atlas of the Imperium, but probably not a lot of background work has been done on the sector. At least not official background work.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
If you want to do something new, do a sector off the current 16 x 8 Charted Space area. It could be a zone where a super-long range expedition went and established a new civilization (plenty of fann-based precedence for that).
daryen
SOC-14 1K
And remember that the Atlas does not include the UWPs. The Atlas only includes maps, which provide the following info:
- Location
- Name (if hi-pop)
- presence of water
- presence of gas giant
- presence of base
- allegiance
So, any UWPs beyond that will be player-generated (i.e. non-canon).
Also, be aware that there are several mistakes in the Atlas, too. The result of this is that you can probably feel free to make a very few changes if you find the need.
- Location
- Name (if hi-pop)
- presence of water
- presence of gas giant
- presence of base
- allegiance
So, any UWPs beyond that will be player-generated (i.e. non-canon).
Also, be aware that there are several mistakes in the Atlas, too. The result of this is that you can probably feel free to make a very few changes if you find the need.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
And there was much rejoicing!
Theophilus
SOC-13
I did an updated verge sector several years ago. I used the "official" uwp's from DGP's unofficial yadda, yadda, yadda.......
I you'd like a copy of MY updated verge sector, let me know. I also have a hand drawn sector map. haven't scanned it in yet.
I you'd like a copy of MY updated verge sector, let me know. I also have a hand drawn sector map. haven't scanned it in yet.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
We're now one and a half years past the original summer 2003 release date for Second Survey.
Survey! Survey! Where are you?
Survey! Survey! Where are you?
I still think this would be a good thing. A common set of maps for everyone, but VERY lite on details. This give the GM a lot of working room. </font>[/QUOTE]__________________________________________________
The GM should always be able to adjust the planet UPW to work for his campaign right?
The information can be in a guideline format. I would just like to have the info to have more choices.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
A GM can always change whatever they want, no matter what it is.Originally posted by cweiskircher:
The GM should always be able to adjust the planet UPW to work for his campaign right?
I would just like to have the info to have more choices.
But it's often difficult to intereste others in varient visions, but much easier to interest them in additions to the baseline, or canon, because that they can take and reshape to their own vision as they've already done (or, at least they can in ideal conditions).
Of course, the above is hardly an absolute rule.
None of that, though, removes my desire to see a great baseline canon list of well-developed and reasonable UWPs for all of Charted Space (though I'll settle for it in chunks, no doubt).
I still think this would be a good thing. A common set of maps for everyone, but VERY lite on details. This give the GM a lot of working room. </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]cweiskircher,
Actually, the quote you give above as mine is actually Wolfman's. I've never said that, nor does it reflect what I would want from such a product.
Just clarifying,
Flynn
My take on this issue is that with computers today that are incredibly far more capable than gathering 10,000 monkeys and placing them at typewriters, we should be able to generate an entire quadrant or even galaxy of stars for use with Traveller with minimal time required. I also think that something like this could be turned into a MAJOR game and get the job done in a way that is relatively painless. Imagine if you will, that every single star system location in the known Imperial universe remains as it is - where it is. The real difference is that prior to the game, these star systems were pre-generated in advance. Imagine having players involved in determining how the scouts operate, which worlds they target, and which worlds get settled first due to:
a) resources
b) livability index
c) location
THIS would make for a really interesting new incarnation of the Traveller Universe. Worlds are upgraded in technology based on what it is that the world leaders want. If you can't create enough "player" leaders for the game, treat each society type that is dictatorial as an NPC type that is run by definite rules and "personality profiles" that a computer can generate reasonably well.
Start this off at the time of the First Imperium, do it for the Second Imperium, and then do it for the Third Imperium.
If you look at the thread on Fifth Frontier War, it states that the boardgame isn't anything like the "canon" history as portrayed by Traveller. Why is this the case? So rather than make up history, why not "LIVE" it? Why not record the history as it is played out? Hell, how many people here would love to play in such a game? It doesn't NEED great graphics nor does it even require major programming to start up nor maintain. Just about everyone who can play by email has a computer with its own spreadsheet format and such. Imagine too, making this play by email game one that costs $5 per month to play. If you have 100 people who participate, that's $500 a month income for part time work. The end result of which is a game product that can be sold on the market as the NEW IMPERIAL ATLAS OF KNOWN SPACE.
Base it off of POCKET EMPIRES or a modified version of it, and let it rip. Let the histories involved write themselves with judicious editing from the producer of this "book". If you really want to pro-rate it, you can even have a $10 per month cost for those really "Important" entities within the game. High tech high population worlds for instance. Perhaps you can set it up so that poor worlds cost only $1 per month.
I know, a pipe dream that it is, it will never be. But imagine the potential here. Imagine getting a group of people dedicated towards turning this dream into a reality. Imagine too, that such an effort would produce not one game supplement, but effectively two. After all, having simulation rules for the building of empires might make for a "IMPERIAL EMPIRES" type product where players might use such rules to expand on history for their own private Traveller Universes.
Imagine having rules for governmental budgets, planetary budgets, military budgets, research & development, Merchant marine (for resource transportation), governmental popularity (for the evolution of government types over time) and so on. The mind boggles (or at least my mind does) at the kinds of things I'd want for my own Traveller Universe. Ah well, time to go back to sleep and stop dreaming pipe dreams
a) resources
b) livability index
c) location
THIS would make for a really interesting new incarnation of the Traveller Universe. Worlds are upgraded in technology based on what it is that the world leaders want. If you can't create enough "player" leaders for the game, treat each society type that is dictatorial as an NPC type that is run by definite rules and "personality profiles" that a computer can generate reasonably well.
Start this off at the time of the First Imperium, do it for the Second Imperium, and then do it for the Third Imperium.
If you look at the thread on Fifth Frontier War, it states that the boardgame isn't anything like the "canon" history as portrayed by Traveller. Why is this the case? So rather than make up history, why not "LIVE" it? Why not record the history as it is played out? Hell, how many people here would love to play in such a game? It doesn't NEED great graphics nor does it even require major programming to start up nor maintain. Just about everyone who can play by email has a computer with its own spreadsheet format and such. Imagine too, making this play by email game one that costs $5 per month to play. If you have 100 people who participate, that's $500 a month income for part time work. The end result of which is a game product that can be sold on the market as the NEW IMPERIAL ATLAS OF KNOWN SPACE.
Base it off of POCKET EMPIRES or a modified version of it, and let it rip. Let the histories involved write themselves with judicious editing from the producer of this "book". If you really want to pro-rate it, you can even have a $10 per month cost for those really "Important" entities within the game. High tech high population worlds for instance. Perhaps you can set it up so that poor worlds cost only $1 per month.
I know, a pipe dream that it is, it will never be. But imagine the potential here. Imagine getting a group of people dedicated towards turning this dream into a reality. Imagine too, that such an effort would produce not one game supplement, but effectively two. After all, having simulation rules for the building of empires might make for a "IMPERIAL EMPIRES" type product where players might use such rules to expand on history for their own private Traveller Universes.
Imagine having rules for governmental budgets, planetary budgets, military budgets, research & development, Merchant marine (for resource transportation), governmental popularity (for the evolution of government types over time) and so on. The mind boggles (or at least my mind does) at the kinds of things I'd want for my own Traveller Universe. Ah well, time to go back to sleep and stop dreaming pipe dreams
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Mark,
How important is the data in the Atlas (as found at Traveller Central) to OTU canon? Especially some of the sectors a ways out (like Khaeaw and Faoheiroi'iyhao)?
I want to use the H4/5 sectors to build my non-Imp star nation. But, of course, some of the UWPs are not useful at all. I plan on regenerating a few, without adding many systems. If I "publish" my results, I wouldn't want it to conflict with the OTU too much.
Where (as in, sectors) do people generally generate their worlds, if they want to keep the OTU as a background?
How important is the data in the Atlas (as found at Traveller Central) to OTU canon? Especially some of the sectors a ways out (like Khaeaw and Faoheiroi'iyhao)?
I want to use the H4/5 sectors to build my non-Imp star nation. But, of course, some of the UWPs are not useful at all. I plan on regenerating a few, without adding many systems. If I "publish" my results, I wouldn't want it to conflict with the OTU too much.
Where (as in, sectors) do people generally generate their worlds, if they want to keep the OTU as a background?
Look through this list of canonical sector references for mention of referee preserves/expansion areas:
http://winterwar.prairienet.org/dmckinne/sector.html
Enjoy,
Flynn
http://winterwar.prairienet.org/dmckinne/sector.html
Enjoy,
Flynn
Having worked on a massive multi-user on-line system professionally, and this is really what you are talking about if you start talking computer moderation and interaction with many players in anything akin to real time, this is no mean feat.
Nor would it be cheap. I think Hal vastly underrates the difficulty. Having presided over the playing and collapsing of many SFB strategic games (Fed and Emp) and many home-brew attempts (including Starfire at one point), these tend to fall apart under the weight of their own administration.
However, I encourage Hal to explore this for himself and find some volunteers who have yet to be stung senseless by attempts at this. It turns out, if you want to do it justice, with reasonable models of habitability, population growth (including wars, natural increase, disease, various types of fatality, population movements to more desirable places, etc), economics, etc.... you've got one helluva task on your hands.
But by all means, prove me wrong.
Nor would it be cheap. I think Hal vastly underrates the difficulty. Having presided over the playing and collapsing of many SFB strategic games (Fed and Emp) and many home-brew attempts (including Starfire at one point), these tend to fall apart under the weight of their own administration.
However, I encourage Hal to explore this for himself and find some volunteers who have yet to be stung senseless by attempts at this. It turns out, if you want to do it justice, with reasonable models of habitability, population growth (including wars, natural increase, disease, various types of fatality, population movements to more desirable places, etc), economics, etc.... you've got one helluva task on your hands.
But by all means, prove me wrong.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I want to ask a question about the OTU timeline. Is there anywhere a TL timeline? When were certain TLs reached for the Imperium as a whole? Or for the Solomani?
(Edited. I was thinking I was on a different forum for a moment.)
(Edited. I was thinking I was on a different forum for a moment.)
Neither the Imperium nor the Solomani Confederation can have an overall TL as both are very loose polities and worlds within each can be of any TL. Having said that if someone has the MT Referee's Companion handy there are dates in which various interstellar polities reached certain TL benchmarks (I use the estimate that 15% of worlds within their borders could achieve this TL to allow for manufacting to take place).
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
kafka, that is what I am looking for. Would posting that be under Fair Use? I found in a "history" posted on the web when the 3I reached TL12 (I think it was prior to 615).
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