Atlas of the Imperium

[kafka47]

Well, under Canadian law I am protected from prosecution for posting this as it is Fair Use...so here goes again.

MT Referee's Companion

The Third Imperium
(Originally the Sylean Federation)
Date TL Event
-1116 10 Syleans maintain miminal interstellar trade
-650 11 Sylean Federation established
-150 12 Robot manufacting reestablished
300 13 Vargr Campaigns taking place (210-348)
700 14 Xboat system being built (624-718)
1000 15 Solomani Rim War

Now we can extrapolate from that the Solomani Confederation is the remains of the Solomani Sphere plus some rogue states thrown in for good measure. So the average Solomani world would follow the Imperial template (although for other reasons, I would give the Solomani about 30% greater instance of having a TL F world). Although, the Syleans also seem pretty technically adept if GT Humaniti is to be considered canon.

 

[kaladorn]

It looks like 1 TL about every 400 years. That's interesting.... it also seems to be fairly even progress in the upper TL, no sort of TL-5 to TL-8 jumps (not thinking of any particular Terra here...) LOL!

 

[mike wightman]

Interesting pattern:

TL10-11 466 years
TL11-12 500 years
TL12-13 450 years
TL13-14 400 years
TL14-15 300 years

When would the jump to TL16 have taken place, assuming no Rebellion?
According to MT the number of TL16 worlds within the Imperium is growing, Massilia almost could be classed as a TL16 sector - 24 worlds
Does 1200 sound reasonable?

 

[kaladorn]

You're talking 170 years... that's pretty darn fast.... and that assumes no Rebellion. Most of these others obviously include no Imperium-shattering war. But assuming you were in the GTverse with no Rebellion, I'd say more like 1250 at the earliest unless there is some potent argument to the contrary. More likely 1300+.

 

[daryen]

Well, before drawing GT into this, remember that TL16 means vastly different things to GT than it does to the rest of Traveller.

Quite frankly, TL16 is an evolutionary step above TL15, just as TL15 is an evolutionary step above TL16.

However, GTL13 (which GT assigns as the equivalent of TL16) is a full revolutionary leap beyond GTL12 (which GT assigns as the equivalent of TL15).

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
You're talking 170 years... that's pretty darn fast.... and that assumes no Rebellion. Most of these others obviously include no Imperium-shattering war. But assuming you were in the GTverse with no Rebellion, I'd say more like 1250 at the earliest unless there is some potent argument to the contrary. More likely 1300+.

If the Imperium was classified as TL15 in 1000, then 1200 is only a 200 year interval between TL15 and TL16.
The Regency managed to advance several worlds to TL15 by 1200, and deliberately held back TL15 worlds from advancing to TL16. Four worlds within the Spinward Marches certainly had the capability. So no Rebellion and no Virus then these worlds should hve made the advance.
The world Vincennes in Deneb sector was held back from advancing to TL17 during the same period

So how many Imperial industrial or high population worlds does it take for an Interstellar polity to advance from one TL to the next?

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by daryen:
Well, before drawing GT into this, remember that TL16 means vastly different things to GT than it does to the rest of Traveller.

Quite frankly, TL16 is an evolutionary step above TL15, just as TL15 is an evolutionary step above TL16.

However, GTL13 (which GT assigns as the equivalent of TL16) is a full revolutionary leap beyond GTL12 (which GT assigns as the equivalent of TL15).

Good point.
I usually think of CT TL17+ for GTL13 even though this goes against what the GT rules say

 

[kaladorn]

I wasn't bringing the GURPS *rules* into it, just their story line. Only GT did not have the Rebellion. You *might* manage 1 TL in 200 years (I don't actually imagine so, I'm guessing 300 is probably the lower boundary, given what kinds of things you get at those TL), but it would have to be 200 undisrupted years. The Rebellion would pretty much kibosh that. Even the areas like Margaret's realm that were largely unaffected, the overall drop in trade and economic and academic data transfer would palsy development rates. This says to me that you'd be looking at 400+ years to hit TL16 for the 'non-wrecked' parts of the Imperium. For the wrecked bits, well... you're falling back, not going ahead.

I think letting the Imperium advance to TL16 or even a sector do so would be a 'dramatic' decision, rather than one justified by any particular timeline. The only argument for it is that you want to. I don't believe 1200 is soon enough for TL16 even undisturbed, but disturbed definitely not. YMMV.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Do you folks use the LBB (I think 2) definitions for what is available at the TLs? LBB has anti-matter, disruptors, etc.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Interesting pattern:

TL10-11 466 years
TL11-12 500 years
TL12-13 450 years
TL13-14 400 years
TL14-15 300 years

When would the jump to TL16 have taken place, assuming no Rebellion?
According to MT the number of TL16 worlds within the Imperium is growing, Massilia almost could be classed as a TL16 sector - 24 worlds
Does 1200 sound reasonable?

Our Problem is that we have TNE 1248 coming out as cannon.
So we must either deal with the rebelion, colapse and recovery or stick with CT and look at aprox. 1250-1300 for a "believable" date for the majority of the universe to advance to TL 16 (all IMHO of course)...LOL

 

[mike wightman]

1250 is my second choice, it fits the progression better IMHO.

 

[aramis]

For me to buy a world atlas... I'd want it (1) in PDF, (2) with full UWPs, not just locations and bases, (3) include a page or two of library data per sector, and (3) include some history overview (not unlike the marches overviews in TTA).

I would prefer a different milieux than 1100-1115.

 

[savage]

The UWPs should be fixed to match canon. Not throwing out canon.
Having more detail for a price could be an interest product.