True, I guess I meant more the design then the actual receiver.
Auto & Assualt Carbines
- Thread starter Sir Brad
- Start date
True, I guess I meant more the design then the actual receiver.
P
Prometheus
Guest
There is always a low tech solution....
I've always liked the concept of caseless weapons, and think that Traveller should have them as standard by TL-9. (Shadowrun 4E does.)
Would EMP affect a caseless weapon such as the G11?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
...iirc (but I trust that phrase less every day 
*) the G11 uses conventional primer and firing pin to set off the caseless rounds. Some other caseless weapons might well use electronic firing and might be susceptible to EMP...
...but, I'd think hardening of the circuits would be standard if EMP is a real threat and one could safely ignore it, for mil-spec weapons. Civilian firearms are unlikely to bother with the expense and weight addition. So make them lighter and cheaper (or the mil-spec heavier and pricier) and you're good to go. The military is going to be immune to EMP effects but employ them against lower tech and civilians to great effect.
The same will apply to vehicles and other electronics of course. In MTU the only ones with EMP effects and EMP proof gear (legally) are the armed forces and recognized mercenary outfits. Which is to say there's a lot of fun to be had with the players (if not legally permitted) to acquire or build their own :devil:
* edit - just thought I'd check real quick, hurrah, my memory is not entirely swiss cheese yet, the G11 has no EMP worries that I can see, it's pretty conventional except for the caseless ammunition
*) the G11 uses conventional primer and firing pin to set off the caseless rounds. Some other caseless weapons might well use electronic firing and might be susceptible to EMP......but, I'd think hardening of the circuits would be standard if EMP is a real threat and one could safely ignore it, for mil-spec weapons. Civilian firearms are unlikely to bother with the expense and weight addition. So make them lighter and cheaper (or the mil-spec heavier and pricier) and you're good to go. The military is going to be immune to EMP effects but employ them against lower tech and civilians to great effect.
The same will apply to vehicles and other electronics of course. In MTU the only ones with EMP effects and EMP proof gear (legally) are the armed forces and recognized mercenary outfits. Which is to say there's a lot of fun to be had with the players (if not legally permitted) to acquire or build their own :devil:
* edit - just thought I'd check real quick, hurrah, my memory is not entirely swiss cheese yet, the G11 has no EMP worries that I can see, it's pretty conventional except for the caseless ammunition
Last edited:
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
..as for the G11 it had it's issues. All to do with the caseless ammo. Until those were solved it was not only useless but dangerous. Last I was following it they were working on it but not production ready. That was what? 30 years ago? I don't recall hearing much about any other caseless weapons since outside of fiction, but then I haven't really been following gun stuff as much for about as long. It's a great idea, just needs the bugs worked out.
shadowcat20
SOC-12
I thought the G11 had a battery in the stock. Anything using a primer would leave something in the chamber. And that would jam up the next round. The trick with caseless is everything goes out the spout.
But then I could be wrong, it happens a lot anymore.
Edit...Nope I am wrong again. It has a Chamber that spins 90 degrees to load the next round. as it turns the primer can fall out of the unloading port...sigh
But then I could be wrong, it happens a lot anymore.
Edit...Nope I am wrong again. It has a Chamber that spins 90 degrees to load the next round. as it turns the primer can fall out of the unloading port...sigh
Last edited:
vitalis6969
SOC-7
You know, sometimes I take firearm knowledge as a given. I have to remind myself that not everyone keeps permanent tabs open in their browser to at least two different gun forums at any given time... 
Yes, the P90 fires the 5.7, they also sell a handgun that fires the same round to devastating effects. It is brutal, high speed and great for close in work. The round has no weight though and doesn't carry it's energy very far at all.
There are several companies making .308W/7.62N AR Pattern rifles. The military is even switching over to a 7.62N AR Pattern rifle for their Designated Marksman weapon. They are common as all get out and readily available, though only one company makes the AR10 and that is Armalite. Everyone else uses different nomenclature or they are going to wind up owing Armalite a truckload of money since it is their terminology...
Other ammo choices for the AR style weapon that will have more punch than the standard 5.56N round would be .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM and 6.5 Grendel. All very good rounds and capable of taking down a black bear.
As for the AR style action needing replacement, all the friends I have that are in the sandbox or have been say it is generally the REMFS that have the problems because of improper weapon maintenance. Shooters rarely run into a problem. And anyone recommending a piston system like the HK416 needs to consider this, the SEALs bought a whole bunch of HK416 rifles. And removed them from service shortly thereafter for undisclosed problems. The problem arises from how the action is manipulated by the operating rod, it rocks in the upper receiver and wears out the action channels. And shortly after that, serious failure. The AR system is simply not designed to function as an operating rod action. It works best as direct impingement, as Mr. Stoner designed it.
If you want an OpRod gun, go with an older design like the AR180 or one of the newer weapons like the XCR, SCAR or the Bushmaster ACR. All of those run very very nice, I have gotten to play with all three and they are pretty fun, though the SCAR has a sharp spot between the receiver and the stock that will bite your cheek if you're not careful.
There are lots of problems inherent with caseless ammunition, but it can still be done with something of the format of the 120mm M1 Abrams rounds fired from the M256 / Rheinmetal gun. The case burns up in the firing but the endcap is discarded during cycling. This would keep the action mechanical, but mechanical actions are going to have a problem in 0G. Unless of course it is similar to the chain drive on the 25mm Bushmaster used on the Bradley, LAV, etc.
I would think something like the Metalstorm electric firing system would be extremely reliable for 0G environments, but you are back to needing protection from EMP bursts. But if EMP is a worry, it will be shielded, its not that big of a deal considering a non-functioning weapon is the alternative.
Holy Crap, just realized I wrote a book. Sorry about that gentlemen, I really dig firearms so I get carried away.
Take it easy,
-V
Yes, the P90 fires the 5.7, they also sell a handgun that fires the same round to devastating effects. It is brutal, high speed and great for close in work. The round has no weight though and doesn't carry it's energy very far at all.
There are several companies making .308W/7.62N AR Pattern rifles. The military is even switching over to a 7.62N AR Pattern rifle for their Designated Marksman weapon. They are common as all get out and readily available, though only one company makes the AR10 and that is Armalite. Everyone else uses different nomenclature or they are going to wind up owing Armalite a truckload of money since it is their terminology...
Other ammo choices for the AR style weapon that will have more punch than the standard 5.56N round would be .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM and 6.5 Grendel. All very good rounds and capable of taking down a black bear.
As for the AR style action needing replacement, all the friends I have that are in the sandbox or have been say it is generally the REMFS that have the problems because of improper weapon maintenance. Shooters rarely run into a problem. And anyone recommending a piston system like the HK416 needs to consider this, the SEALs bought a whole bunch of HK416 rifles. And removed them from service shortly thereafter for undisclosed problems. The problem arises from how the action is manipulated by the operating rod, it rocks in the upper receiver and wears out the action channels. And shortly after that, serious failure. The AR system is simply not designed to function as an operating rod action. It works best as direct impingement, as Mr. Stoner designed it.
If you want an OpRod gun, go with an older design like the AR180 or one of the newer weapons like the XCR, SCAR or the Bushmaster ACR. All of those run very very nice, I have gotten to play with all three and they are pretty fun, though the SCAR has a sharp spot between the receiver and the stock that will bite your cheek if you're not careful.
There are lots of problems inherent with caseless ammunition, but it can still be done with something of the format of the 120mm M1 Abrams rounds fired from the M256 / Rheinmetal gun. The case burns up in the firing but the endcap is discarded during cycling. This would keep the action mechanical, but mechanical actions are going to have a problem in 0G. Unless of course it is similar to the chain drive on the 25mm Bushmaster used on the Bradley, LAV, etc.
I would think something like the Metalstorm electric firing system would be extremely reliable for 0G environments, but you are back to needing protection from EMP bursts. But if EMP is a worry, it will be shielded, its not that big of a deal considering a non-functioning weapon is the alternative.
Holy Crap, just realized I wrote a book. Sorry about that gentlemen, I really dig firearms so I get carried away.
Take it easy,
-V
"Shooters rarely run into a problem?" I strongly disagree and I have 27 months in country and 11 years experience with the weapon system in question. There are still reports of weapons malfunctions (the investigation about the 173rd Airborne unit that suffered heavy casualties in 2007 The M4 malfunction was a major factor mentioned). Anecdotal, I had my weapon "jamm" twice in contact due to poor ammunition and the gas tube and I cleaned it religiously nightly and when we had the down time after a TIC (I think you can figure now I wasn't a REMF). As far as the comments about the HK416 I have heard to the contrary within the very community you mentioned and I worked with them 1st hand. I fired one in Benning a few times. Talked to a few of the guys evaluating the HK and they never had an issue.
Last edited:
I generally agree about the AR; I had an Bushmaster XM-15/E-2S, which cost about 6x what I bought a Bulgarian SLR-95 AK for and the Bushmaster was very tempermental, after a couple thousand rounds in the woods with friends, there were plenty of misfeeds, stovepipes, etc. . The AK was functionally better on that point, rear sight on the Bushmaster and weight is both better of the two though. If I had only one gun it would be a Steyr SSG-69 in 7.62 NATO, so you call tell I'm a full size rifle guy.
vitalis6969
SOC-7
Im currently sitting just below 2k rounds through my M4gery without cleaning and no problems. I just shoot more CLP into the action and run it real real wet. It is also a frankengun built up from parts, but nothing real high end.
-V
vitalis6969
SOC-7
Thanks for your service, and no you are definitely not a remf. Just repeating the experience, admittedly non combat though through hard weekends of training, that I've had with the weapon and what my friends who have been in country say about it. I'm leaving out all the forum stuff I read since some of that can get pretty crazy though the Lightfighter forums are pretty good for dealing straight from the horse's mouth as opposed to mall ninjas.
-V
Yeah, I have a friend who builds his own AR-10's from parts, so IMO, if you know what you are doing, you will get a better weapon. Out of the box, I was a bit disappointed.
vitalis6969
SOC-7
I had a bushmaster like that, I was pretty disappointed. I had to change the extractor to a heavy duty model, and every single nit-noid part had to be reseated and re-secured with locktite. I was not impressed with the quality control on that firearm.
-V
Yes, esp as it is advertised as one of the best on the market and it's price reflected that.
I made this thinking of the discussion of caseless rounds, it's an SMG however:
http://www.TravellerRPG.com/CotI/Gallery/index.php?n=1141
Sleighr Mod X SMG
Sleighr Model 10 SMG TL11+
Sleighr Arms of Sacnoth, Model 10 SMG
10mm caseless rounds
Laser red-dot designator for point shooting (+1 on snapshots)
Electric fire, EMP hardened (battery in magazine, held by set screw)
40 round magazine quad stack (bullets annealled to a small square of propellant)
Blowback operated, barrel recoils releasing a follower-cam assembly stripping a new round into the chamber, no ejection port.
2.5kg loaded. Made of high tech lightweight materials, under front handguard is a linear gyro-stabilizer to reduce muzzle flip.
This lightweight and compact SMG has found it's way across the Spinward Marches, either manufactured on Sacnoth or licensed by various other firms. With a folding stock (detachable by a button underneath the hinge) allowing for superior concealability. Electronic sights (0-4x) include passive LA/IR, no range bonuses however, due to barrel length. The propellant includes it's own oxidant, thus enabling it to fire in vacuum or other airless environments. It has a thumb switch above the trigger allowing three settings: safe, semi- and select fire for four round bursts. The oversized trigger ring allows use by vacc suit or other gaunlets.
-Robert
I made this thinking of the discussion of caseless rounds, it's an SMG however:
http://www.TravellerRPG.com/CotI/Gallery/index.php?n=1141
Sleighr Mod X SMG
Sleighr Model 10 SMG TL11+
Sleighr Arms of Sacnoth, Model 10 SMG
10mm caseless rounds
Laser red-dot designator for point shooting (+1 on snapshots)
Electric fire, EMP hardened (battery in magazine, held by set screw)
40 round magazine quad stack (bullets annealled to a small square of propellant)
Blowback operated, barrel recoils releasing a follower-cam assembly stripping a new round into the chamber, no ejection port.
2.5kg loaded. Made of high tech lightweight materials, under front handguard is a linear gyro-stabilizer to reduce muzzle flip.
This lightweight and compact SMG has found it's way across the Spinward Marches, either manufactured on Sacnoth or licensed by various other firms. With a folding stock (detachable by a button underneath the hinge) allowing for superior concealability. Electronic sights (0-4x) include passive LA/IR, no range bonuses however, due to barrel length. The propellant includes it's own oxidant, thus enabling it to fire in vacuum or other airless environments. It has a thumb switch above the trigger allowing three settings: safe, semi- and select fire for four round bursts. The oversized trigger ring allows use by vacc suit or other gaunlets.
-Robert
Last edited:
vitalis6969
SOC-7
Yes, esp as it is advertised as one of the best on the market and it's price reflected that.
I made this thinking of the discussion of caseless rounds, it's an SMG however:
http://www.TravellerRPG.com/CotI/Gallery/index.php?n=1141
Sleighr Mod X SMG
Sleighr Model 10 SMG TL11+
Sleighr Arms of Sacnoth, Model 10 SMG
10mm caseless rounds
Laser red-dot designator for point shooting (+1 on snapshots)
Electric fire, EMP hardened (battery in magazine, held by set screw)
40 round magazine quad stack (bullets annealled to a small square of propellant)
Blowback operated, barrel recoils releasing a follower-cam assembly stripping a new round into the chamber, no ejection port.
2.5kg loaded. Made of high tech lightweight materials, under front handguard is a linear gyro-stabilizer to reduce muzzle flip.
This lightweight and compact SMG has found it's way across the Spinward Marches, either manufactured on Sacnoth or licensed by various other firms. With a folding stock (detachable by a button underneath the hinge) allowing for superior concealability. Electronic sights (0-4x) include passive LA/IR, no range bonuses however, due to barrel length. The propellant includes it's own oxidant, thus enabling it to fire in vacuum or other airless environments. It has a thumb switch above the trigger allowing three settings: safe, semi- and select fire for four round bursts. The oversized trigger ring allows use by vacc suit or other gaunlets.
-Robert
- Yeah, I definitely agree about the Bushmaster, their marketing is misleading. Bushies are most certainly not taken seriously in the AR community. If you want a good AR Bushmaster does not even make the list.
- I love the SMG, very very cool, just might steal it for our game.
As a side note, just introduced Metalstorm type pistols and rifles to the game, the crew is salvaging a derelict science ring-shape vessel that recently came out of the core worlds and the ship's locker had four pistols and four rifles on board. The crew was pretty happy to find these.
-V
Had I known that about the Bushmaster, I would have picked up something else, I sold it used though and got most of my money back, so there is an upside.
Thanks, about the SMG, feel free to use it, I figure it makes a nice vehicle/pilots emergency weapon as well -light, compact; use it and throw it away.
The metalstorm quad barrel grenade robot is cool, definitely Travellerish-
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
The metalstorm quad barrel grenade robot is cool, definitely Travellerish-
An "iRobot" eh? Well I guess it won't have OS issues... but will you only be able to buy new grenades for it through the proprietary outlet "iNades"
An "iRobot" eh? Well I guess it won't have OS issues... but will you only be able to buy new grenades for it through the proprietary outlet "iNades"
It could be a real holy crap moment for players, suddely faced with a squad of robot quad-grenade launchers.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Yep, there should be more such bots in the game. I've just finished a fictional story* about UGV's (Unmanned Ground Vehicles - basically remotely operated light tanks) that's given me all kinds of ideas for future ground warfare. Not a bad read.
* "No Warriors, No Glory" by Harold Coyle (Forge fiction pub.)
* "No Warriors, No Glory" by Harold Coyle (Forge fiction pub.)