Average TL of the Imperium?
- Thread starter cuTTer
- Start date
World generation rules, table of tech levels. 11 and 12 are labeled 'Average Imperial'. (And 15, not 16, is 'Technical maximum Imperial').
Hans
Thanks very much Hans, inspired by T5 I intend to produce some numbers for some TL uplifted weapons and equipment, just for my own amusement.
Are you pulling that from Book 4/5 Shield or is it informed speculation?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You can use the Fifth Frontier War boardgame for guidance on this. Regular IN units are TL15, colonial units are TL14.
Procurement rule in HG says the Imperial Navy gets ships of TL 10 to 15. Subsector and planetary navies can procure ships from any shipyard in their subsector. Logically the Imperial Navy will try to get its combat units from TL15 shipyards and auxiliaries from whatever shipyard is good enough for the task. (It's never stated anywhere, but I surmise that the Imperium mostly has to take taxes from a member world in goods produced on that member world).
Colonial units are universally portrayed as of lesser tech levels than the IN, but logically some subsector navies (namely the ones with at least one TL 15 high-population world in the subsector) and some planetary naves (namely the ones belonging to TL 15 worlds) would also have state-of-the-art TL 15 ships. Training levels may be marginally lower, especially if the Imperial Navy makes a habit of 'poaching' qualified personnel from subsector and planetary navies.
I suggest that the common knowledge that colonial navies are of lesser quality is one of those things "everybody knows" rather than the actual truth.
The IN is portrayed as disposing of obsolescent ships in various ways, including putting some of them in ordinary. Some of these reserves could easily be more than 100 years old and thus necessarily of lower than TL 15. OTOH, 105 years after the Imperium reached TL 15, some of the ships put into ordinary in the last generation would almost certainly have been TL 15 themselves.
Hans
Colonial units are universally portrayed as of lesser tech levels than the IN, but logically some subsector navies (namely the ones with at least one TL 15 high-population world in the subsector) and some planetary naves (namely the ones belonging to TL 15 worlds) would also have state-of-the-art TL 15 ships. Training levels may be marginally lower, especially if the Imperial Navy makes a habit of 'poaching' qualified personnel from subsector and planetary navies.
I suggest that the common knowledge that colonial navies are of lesser quality is one of those things "everybody knows" rather than the actual truth.
The IN is portrayed as disposing of obsolescent ships in various ways, including putting some of them in ordinary. Some of these reserves could easily be more than 100 years old and thus necessarily of lower than TL 15. OTOH, 105 years after the Imperium reached TL 15, some of the ships put into ordinary in the last generation would almost certainly have been TL 15 themselves.
Hans
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Glad to be able to help 
So what sort of weaponry are you modding?
And will you be posting it (hint hint).
So what sort of weaponry are you modding?
And will you be posting it (hint hint).
Lasers for a start.
It's an idea born out of reading T5 and Fate of the Kinunir. The GunMaker in T5 has staging rules for a technology's transition through TLs and FotK has a line in it that goes,
"If any in the mob spotted her regulation laser pistols they would identify her immediately as an Imperial."
I have no intention of switching from CT to T5 anytime soon, and I certainly don't take everything in FotK as canon, but I thought, what the hell, it might be worth a punt.
I have to see what I can come up with first, if I can't get it to work to my satisfaction I'll just be sticking it in the 'Good Ideas That Went Bad' folder on my G-Drive.
It's an idea born out of reading T5 and Fate of the Kinunir. The GunMaker in T5 has staging rules for a technology's transition through TLs and FotK has a line in it that goes,
"If any in the mob spotted her regulation laser pistols they would identify her immediately as an Imperial."
I have no intention of switching from CT to T5 anytime soon, and I certainly don't take everything in FotK as canon, but I thought, what the hell, it might be worth a punt.
I have to see what I can come up with first, if I can't get it to work to my satisfaction I'll just be sticking it in the 'Good Ideas That Went Bad' folder on my G-Drive.
Reserve units at TL14 is based upon unit counters from FFW + descriptions in GURPS starships, High Passage 5, fighting ships of shattered imperium, the T20 travellers Aid and Supplement 9. The Azhanti high lightening class cruisers are an example. High passage has an old TL14 battleship in an interior squadron in the old expanses. Travellers digest has a bunch of TL14 regal battlecrusiers in storage at a naval depot (Digest 7?)
Now auxiliaries and monitors, could be anything from TL10 onwards, but most imp auxiliaries seem to be J4 M2 which puts them at TL13+. Little stuff like the gazelles seems to be a TL level above the avervage world TL of 11-12 to give them an edge over local pirates and still allow easy repair at any decent shipyard.
GURPS starports says that the Starport Authority builds imperial starports at GURPS TL10 which is about TL12-13 in CT
Now auxiliaries and monitors, could be anything from TL10 onwards, but most imp auxiliaries seem to be J4 M2 which puts them at TL13+. Little stuff like the gazelles seems to be a TL level above the avervage world TL of 11-12 to give them an edge over local pirates and still allow easy repair at any decent shipyard.
GURPS starports says that the Starport Authority builds imperial starports at GURPS TL10 which is about TL12-13 in CT
That is crazily complete, in some ways I hope that wasn't all just in your head, but in other ways I hope to didn't spend too much time looking stuff like that up on my account.
But once again, many thanks.
sadly all in my head - I must get out more
It was Traveller Digest #7.
It included (in mothball):
TL14 Regal Class Battlecruisers
TL15 Atlantic Class Heavy Cruisers
and Depot (Lishun) system defenses for the Dynam System:
TL15 Wasp Class 1000 ton SDBs
TL15 Scorpion Class 2000ton Heavy SDBs
(in addition to 1 or 2 Vargr vessels)
Let there be light (at very reasonable prices).
Played about with this idea at the weekend, finally settled on a little formula that reduces a value by a percentage based on a weapon's current tech level. The values I'm interested in modding with this formula are Base Weight, Ammo Weight, Base Price and Ammo Price. I'm not advocating a change in performance with this methodology, simply a reduction in weight and cost. It's only really practicable with energy weapons, so I started with lasers.
+ + + +
If I can figure out how to upload files I'll stick a pdf up in a bit.
+ + + +
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=30832#post30832"
Glad to be able to help
So what sort of weaponry are you modding?
And will you be posting it (hint hint).
Played about with this idea at the weekend, finally settled on a little formula that reduces a value by a percentage based on a weapon's current tech level. The values I'm interested in modding with this formula are Base Weight, Ammo Weight, Base Price and Ammo Price. I'm not advocating a change in performance with this methodology, simply a reduction in weight and cost. It's only really practicable with energy weapons, so I started with lasers.
+ + + +
If I can figure out how to upload files I'll stick a pdf up in a bit.
+ + + +
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=30832#post30832"
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tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
You might find some ideas in the following posts useful --
Enhancing CT Weapons -- http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=19453
Additional CT weapon enhancements -- http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=427391&postcount=11
Even more -- http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=427455&postcount=19
Yes, but colonial units from e.g. Rhylanor, Mora, Trin's Veil, and Glisten subsectors shouldn't be TL14, they should be TL15. The lack of some TL15 colonial units in FFW is, IMO, a big fat mistake (since there ought to be some if the countermix is supposed to be representative). And the same lack in the other books and magazines you mention may not be wrong per se, but it certainly leaves out a significant part of the picture.
Hans
I was curious as to the rate of advancement in the Imperium and the obstacles to advancement. One thing of note is the change from TL 14 to TL 15 only took 100 years, but from 12-14 to 1000 or so (at this point in discussion an average of 500 years)
The data breakpoints I am aware of:
Imperial Year - TL (Source)
0000 - 12 (Milieu 0 Campaign)
1002 - 14 (Invasion: Earth game)
1105 - 15 (General references in CT)
Were there technological plateaus? I am also curious as when the Imperium hit TL 13. I suggest it might have been when the J4 XBoat network was established (the standard routes, not the secret Navy J6 one). Does anyone have a hard reference? I think there are some in Megatraveller. Can't check right now, at work.
The data breakpoints I am aware of:
Imperial Year - TL (Source)
0000 - 12 (Milieu 0 Campaign)
1002 - 14 (Invasion: Earth game)
1105 - 15 (General references in CT)
Were there technological plateaus? I am also curious as when the Imperium hit TL 13. I suggest it might have been when the J4 XBoat network was established (the standard routes, not the secret Navy J6 one). Does anyone have a hard reference? I think there are some in Megatraveller. Can't check right now, at work.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
According to the MT:RC the Imperium achieves TL15 in year 1000, and so would begin the process of refitting and building a TL15 fleet. Invasion: Earth is still fought with the TL14 fleet.
TL14 700
TL13 300 (in 624 the jump 4 X boat network is established, complete 718)
TL12 -150 (Sylean Federation)
TL advances appear to take centuries - apart from the rapid rise from TL 4 to TL9.
Note that the Terrans went from TL9 to TL12 very quickly due to reverse engineering Vilani technology, industrial espionage and trade.
I have a theory that the first Imperium actually had TL12 research tucked away in its universities and research facilities, but these advances were not allowed to corrupt Vilani society and so were suppressed which would help explain how the Terrans could leap beyond Imperial technology so quickly.
TL14 700
TL13 300 (in 624 the jump 4 X boat network is established, complete 718)
TL12 -150 (Sylean Federation)
TL advances appear to take centuries - apart from the rapid rise from TL 4 to TL9.
Note that the Terrans went from TL9 to TL12 very quickly due to reverse engineering Vilani technology, industrial espionage and trade.
I have a theory that the first Imperium actually had TL12 research tucked away in its universities and research facilities, but these advances were not allowed to corrupt Vilani society and so were suppressed which would help explain how the Terrans could leap beyond Imperial technology so quickly.
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arbitrary.remora
SOC-8
My counter-theory sir is that the Terrans had a much more disparate TL at contact. Jump drives, sure TL9...but most other systems TL 10 and even 11. So when they hit Vilani, the contest was closer than it would seem.
Of this is all part of my grand theory that the Terrans knew of the Imperium and expected to find what they found (the Vegan survivors at Roswell said as much), so they extended the pre-Jump incubation period as much as possible. You can get my full theory for Cr10. Includes a free tinfoil psi-shield.
-Arb
