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Azhanti High Lightning

Originally posted by Bhoins:
If we ignore FOTSI (Which most people are inclined to do.) The AHL is the only canon J-5 or better capital ship.
No, it isn't ;)
Supplement 9 Fighting Ships gives us the TL15 30kt Gionetti class light cruiser which is jump 5, maneuver 5 and agility 5.
Now you know why the AHLs were being mothballed in the aftermath of the Fifth Frontier War ;)
 
And since I brought up the Fifth Frontier War, in the game there are four jump 6 cruiser squadrons (CR460, CR470, CR480, and CR490) rated at 4-2-8 (better than most of the Battleship counters ;) ). There are four jump 5 cruiser squadrons (CR501-504), 501 and 503 are rated 5-4-6, 502 is 3-2-4, while 504 is 1-1-3.

Note the ratings are attack factor - bombardment factor - defence factor.
 
"The IN is unlikely to stand down one of its few fast reacting Cruisers when they have so few available" (Bhoins)

"The ship is to rare and too valuable to render it uncombat worthy" (Bhoins)

Why the hell did the IN declare them obsolescent in 1048(MT, Arrival Vengeance, page 5; see, you're not the only one to know the OTU trick)?

"I understand that it is a game device" (Bhoins, never tired, man?)

Yeah, that's the one intelligent thing you wrote! TRAVELLER IS A GAME!!! Did you just figured it out? Or did someone tell you? So, don't like my idea? Fine. Don't worry, I won't force you to play with me. And don't worry for the safety of the poor citizens of the imperium, left without protection because of my criminal behaviour: THEY'RE NOT REAL, IT'S A GAME!!!

When I post an idea like this one, I like people giving me advice on how to realize it or on how to improve it. But don't waste your time and mine explaining me why I should drop the idea. I won't. Even if Marc Miller knock my door down and take my copy of Traveller back.
 
"A launch tube for 50t ships is standard on Imperial Carriers, so no problems building one - 1250t" (Sigg Odra)

According to GURPS Traveller Starship, a launch tube requires 2 dTon per 25 sTon of the craft the tube is designed for (plus staging aera designed as a vehicle bay or space dock). A 650 sTon cutter (that's an advanced cutter loaded with a orbital insertion module, the heaviest combination I found) would require 52 dTon of tube plus 52,5 dTon of staging area. Why such a difference with Sigg Odra's figures.

Even more, according to the deckplan in Arrival Vengeance, the launchtubes are 77% of the length of the ship, that's 760' long (according to GT:S length for the Azhanti of 992'. According to the same deckplan they're about 3 meters wide, that's about 10'. The volume of the tube should be some 59690 cf. Or some 120 dTon.

Help!!!
 
The formula for launch tubes in High Guard and T20 is 25 x tonnage of largest craft to use the launch tube.
The original deckplans, reproduced for Arrival Veneance, are based on the High Guard numbers.
 
If you think of the particle accelerator plus the two fighter launch tubes all together as being the "spine" of an AHL, this assemblage has a total displacement of 3750 dtons.

This tonnage could be allocated to a factor-J meson gun at 1000 dtons, plus one 50-ton launch tube at 1250 dtons, plus two 15-ton launch tube at 375 dtons, for a total of 3000 dtons.

This would make your AHL training ship a variant on the Frontier Cruiser refit of the AHLs rather than the original Fleet Intruder configuration.

What you could say is that the meson gun is mounted in only the forward part of the spinal mount space, and the cutter launch tube is mounted in the aft part of the spinal mount space. The meson gun fires forwards, and the cutter launch tube is angled/curved so cutters launch out of the top of the ship (perhaps in an opening at the forward edge of the top fin?) and recover through the stern). This would minimize any changes to the deck plans. You could keep one fighter deck for a reduced fighter force and the other for the cutters. You'd have to play around with the deckplans for the "cutter" hanger deck to allow for the larger diameter of the cutters.

The configuration of the meson gun and cutter launch tube is similar to the "Janus-mount" allowed in TNE where two spinal mounts are installed back to back, one firing forwards and one aft.

Alternatively you could say that the cutters launch through the meson gun tube, but obviously not when the meson gun is in use.

Or you could just say that docking facilities for 50-ton cutters were added at various points around the ship (hanger decks, cargo decks, flight crew decks, etc) and keep the ship pretty much in her original form. You wouldn't be able to launch cutters so fast but I'm not sure if she'd need rapid launch facilities as a training ship. She already has docking facilities for four 20-ton gunboats (3m diameter), one 4.5 meter diameter craft, and one 6m diameter craft back aft on the boat bay. A little copy and paste work and all those docking ports could become 6m ports capable of handling 50-dton cutters if you wanted to do things that way. There is room on the boat deck plan to do this.

I'm noticing the curve of the hull there at the center right bottom (just below and to the right of the ventral lift shaft). It looks just the same size as the 6m docking port used for cutters, and again could easily become such a docking port. Supplement 5 does say that AHL ships have external carry capacity for small craft, even through jump. Assuming one cutter per cargo deck, flight crew deck, and hanger deck, plus converting all the boat deck docks to cutters, this gives you 12 cutters.

I'd also put back in the forward bridge as a training simulator for the cadets while the deckplan for the Cartography deck could be used for classrooms.
 
My mistake, the figures I compute from the deckplan are wrong. While the length of 760' is correct, the diameter of a cutter is 21', making the volume of such a tube, 263 234 cf or 526 dTon.

Still about half the HG figures.
 
Minor note: if you adopt the idea of the factor-J meson gun in the forward half of the ship, I'd move the Main Weapon decks from their normal location to about deck 36 and 37, and move the two crew quarters decks normally there to the old locations for the Main Weapon decks at 66 and 67.
 
Oz, you seem to have deckplans much more detailled than mine. I've the one from Arrival Vengeance, and they don't show the cartography deck for exemple.

"You could keep one fighter deck for a reduced fighter force and the other for the cutters" (Oz).

I computed from the deckplan that the hangar decks are about 41' high each. And a cutter is 72' long. So I'll have to merge the two hangar decks in a single higher ceiled one to acommodate the cutters.

"I'm noticing the curve of the hull there at the center right bottom (just below and to the right of the ventral lift shaft). It looks just the same size as the 6m docking port used for cutters, and again could easily become such a docking port" (Oz).

In AV, that curve seems to be the docking ports for the 400 dTon fuel shuttles.

I think I will simply strip my concept of any spinal mount weapon. Leaving just the 50-ton launch tube. Somehow spinal weapon seems to me to be too offensive for a school ship. Don't know why, but it doesn't seems right. Maybe I could add a second tube. Or leave some empty space, after all when doing a refit new components seldom take exactly the same volume as the old ones did... Don't know. What do you think Thierry? Wouldn't it be more interesting (on an narrative level) for the players to be on a less heavily armed ship? I mean even without it's spinal mount she's still no match for anything but another capital ship. And she's intended to travel well inside the imperium frontiers. We don't want our players to feel too safe. Do we?

Could someone provide me with the more extensive deckplans (than the one from AV) some of you refer to?
 
Voyage planing.

Where would you call, with a jump-5 ship, for an interesting round the Marches 6 month middies cruise? What about other sectors (the Solomani Rim?)? By the way, where would you start? Where are the naval academies of the sector located (I mean the imperial ones, not the local ones)? Is there one or many?

The Jeanne d'Arc is often carrying an handfull of midshipmen from other countries among the french ones. Who could enjoy such an exchange program in the Traveller universe. Vegans and Darrians seems a logical choice to me (their navies even use azhanti). Maybe a couple of scouts could make sense (you know, inter-service cooperation). Altough those two will certainly be happy to sail with the navy. What else?
 
I've been using the deckplans from the original AHL game (and no, you can't have them
). You can get reduced-size views of them in the FFE reprint The Classic Games.

Stripping off the spinal mount is not a bad thing for a school ship. Perhaps you could play with the bay weapons to give the ship a mix of meson gun bays, particle accelerator bays, and missile bays. This would give the middies examples of all types of IN weapons to learn with, including the fusion gun, laser and sandcaster turrets. Maybe make one gunnery deck (4 bays) the meson gun deck, and one the particle accelerator deck, while the other four remain missile bays. Or keep only one gunnery deck of each type and convert the other three decks to gyms or classrooms (use the Crew Quarters/Flight Crew Quarters deckplans, with appropriate changes). Note that the controls for the smaller turret weapons (lasers, fusion guns, sandcasters) are also on the gunnery decks, so if you do reduce the number of gunnery decks you might want to reduce the smaller weapons in proportion. An AHL has 36 turret weapons batteries in normal service, so if you eliminated half the Gunnery Decks, I'd cut that to 18 turret weapon batteries: 6 sand, 10 laser, and 2 energy weapon.

The spinal mount tube is just about the right diameter for a 50-dton cutter launch tube, that's for certain.

Hmmmm. You're right about the length of the cutters, and you'd need both hangar decks (which are four times the height of a regular deck) to make a cutter hangar. There's a Gunnery Deck in between the two Fighter Hangars, so if you combine that Gunnery Deck and the two Hangars together you'd get a 9-deck tall Cutter Hangar, which is certainly big enough.

You could put a full-size Hangar deck (for fighters and/or gunboats) from decks 36-39, and convert the Main Weapons Decks to Crew Quarters. If you're reducing the armament (including the Marine contingent) you don't need as many Crew Quarters decks. If she's not going to carry fighters her crew size goes down even further and you could convert a Flight Crew Quarters deck into something else as well.

I feel like doing a full workup on this so I'll be back with data and recommendations in a bit.
 
Accorting to AV, the Azhanti carries 60 fighters. According to GT:S, she carries 80. I'll stick to 60 for now. 60 figthers, 10 dTon each, that's 600 dTon of space inside the vehicle bays. Meaning I could full one squadron of ten cutters, each with one module plus 3 spare modules (or 10 spares if using GURPS figures).

What kind of module would the ship be carrying? In its school configuration? In its wartime configuration?

Peacetime: I think it should carry enough passenger modules to ferry all the middies to their various visits (not sure yet about how many middies will be aboard, but some 3 or 4 passengers modules with their 50 seats each, should be enough, let's say 5). I'm considering the idea of designing a "captain's yacht" module (mix of a noble state room module and luxury transport): as the captain of the ship will be both lower rear admiral and count (seems logical to put someone like that in command of such a protocole oriented ship), we don't expect him to arrive at the party in the cargo space of a marine cutter, don't we? What about the other modules? They are 7 left. Some cargo? A medical one?

What about wartime? Troop transport, orbital insertion, marine command, marine firebase, vehicle transport, boarding seem all right to me. But in which ones? How many of each?
 
I like the idea of outfitting some turrets with each of the weapons in use in the navy in order to give a chance to the middies of practizing with each one.

I'll keep the idea. Thanks.
 
Here's what I've got so far (designed mostly with HGS 1.14, Thanks, Andrew!!!!):

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Ship: Bard Refuge
Class: Azhanti High Lightning
Type: Training Cruiser
Architect: Osmanski
Tech Level: 14 (with TL-15 bay weapons)

USP
CT-P4525F3-595605-99549-2 MCr 42,908.980 60 KTons
Bat Bear 6 3 A3333 Crew: 506
Bat 8 4 C4444 TL: 14</pre>[/QUOTE]</font>
  • Cargo: 400.0 Low: 310 Fuel: 33,000.0 EP: 3,000.0 Agility: 2 Marines: 50</font>
  • Craft: 8 x 50T Cutter, 20 x 15T Fighter, 4 x 400T Fuel Shuttle,</font>
  • 1 x 50T Launch Tubes, 2 x 15T Launch Tubes</font>
  • Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification</font>
  • Architects Fee: MCr 429.090 Cost in Quantity: MCr 34,327.184</font>
  • Detailed Description</font>
  • HULL</font>
  • 60,000.0 tons standard, 840,000.0 cubic meters, Close Structure Configuration</font>
  • CREW</font>
  • 42 Officers, 394 Ratings, 20 Pilots, 50 Marines, up to 150 Midshipmen</font>
  • ENGINEERING</font>
  • Jump-5, 2G Manuever, Power plant-5, 3,000.0 EP, Agility 2</font>
  • AVIONICS</font>
  • Bridge, Model/6fib Computer</font>
  • HARDPOINTS</font>
  • 16 50-ton bays, 360 Hardpoints (120 hardpoints are empty)</font>
  • ARMAMENT</font>
  • 4 50-ton Meson Gun Bays (Factor-4)</font>
  • 4 50-ton Particle Accelerator Bays (Factor-5)</font>
  • 4 50-ton Missile Bays (Factor-9)</font>
  • 120 Triple Beam Laser Turrets organised into 12 Batteries (Factor-9)</font>
  • 40 Dual Fusion Gun Turrets organised into 4 Batteries (Factor-9)</font>
  • DEFENCES</font>
  • 4 50-ton Repulsor Bays (Factor-5)</font>
  • 80 Triple Sandcaster Turrets organised into 8 Batteries (Factor-9)</font>
  • Nuclear Damper (Factor-6)</font>
  • Meson Screen (Factor-5)</font>
  • Armoured Hull (Factor-5)</font>
  • CRAFT</font>
  • Eight 50.0 ton Cutters (Crew of 2)</font>
  • Twenty 15.0 ton Fighters (Crew of 1)</font>
  • Four 400.0 ton Fuel Shuttles (Crew of 4)</font>
  • One 50.0 ton Launch Tube</font>
  • Two 15.0 ton Launch Tubes</font>
  • FUEL</font>
  • 33,000.0 Tons Fuel (5 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)</font>
  • On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant</font>
  • MISCELLANEOUS</font>
  • 378.0 Staterooms, 310 Low Berths</font>
  • 400.0 Tons Cargo, 957 tons unused space</font>
  • COST</font>
  • MCr 43,338.070 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 429.090), MCr 34,327.184 in Quantity</font>
  • CONSTRUCTION TIME</font>
  • 191 Weeks Singly, 153 Weeks in Quantity</font>
COMMENTS

A conversion of the AHL frontier cruiser to a cadet training ship, the Bard Refuge has had several alterations.

Most importantly, her spinal mount has been replaced with a launch tube for 50-ton cutters used in training the midshipmen in small craft operations. One-third of her secondary armament has been removed, and the remainder now displays the full variety of Imperial weaponry for the cadets to train with: meson guns, particle accelerators, repulsors, missiles, lasers, energy weapons and sandcasters.

The deck arrangement is also different from the standard AHL-class. Deck 1 is a Bridge Simulator deck for cadet training. Deck 2 is a Classroom deck (use the Cartography deck layout). Deck 35 is a Flight Crew Quarters deck, while Decks 36-39 are combined into a standard Fighter Hangar Deck for the 20 fighters carried aboard for training purposes. The two original Fighter Hangar Decks and the Gunnery deck in between them, have been combined into one 9-deck-tall Cutter Hangar Deck, holding the 8 modular cutters. The two Main Weapons Decks and the Flight Crew Quarters deck at deck 68 have been converted into Crew Quarters decks, with the 50 Marines now berthing on deck 68, next to the Cutter Hangar.
 
Possible cadet training routes in the Spinward Marches.

The Zhodani Tour:
Regina-Alell
Alell-Lysen
Lysen-Jewell
Jewell-Quar
Quar-Arden
Arden-Frenzie
Frenzie-Vilis
Vilis-Tavonni
Tavonni-D'Ganzio
D'Ganzio-Equus
Equus-Rhylanor
Rhylanor-Celepina
Celepina-Aramis
Aramis-Focaline
Focaline-Moughas
Moughas-Feri
Feri-Regina

Foreign Shores:
Regina-Extolay
Extolay-Denotam
Denotam-Frenzie
Frenzie-Vilis
Vilis-Anselhome
Anselhome-Jacent
Jacent-Darrian
Darrian-Iderati
Iderati-Walston
Walston-Grote
Grote-Persephone
Peresephone-Capon
Capon-Garrincski
Garrincski-Rhylanor
Rhylanor-Risek
Risek-Paya
Paya-Roup
Roup-Regina

The Home Front:
Regina-Dinomn
Dinomn-Ghandi
Ghandi-Lanth
Lanth-Rabwhar
Rabwhar-Lunion
Lunion-Persephone
Persephone-Mithras
Mithras-Glisten
Glisten-Squanine
Squanine-Murchison
Murchison-Trin
Trin-Katarulu
Katarulu-Fen's Gren
Fen's Gren-Mora
Mora-(457-973)
(457-973)-Rhylanor
Rhylanor-Echiste
Echiste-Regina

All three cruises assume one jump every 10 days over a 180-day period (18 jumps). While I show the routes starting at Regina, obviously they could start elsewhere (notice that all three routes also go through Rhylanor, for instance).
 
Problem with the vehicle bays:

the fighter bays are NOT "Open bays" on the AHL. they are a wonky nose up fighter-in-slot arrangement on the plans. (I, too have the AHL box...) this is to maximize the number you can put to the launch tubes, as they are kept parallel to the tubes.

Replacing these with more traditional hangars, or even putting the cutters in empty missile bays, one can easily use the RF108T as well as the cutters.
 
The cutters wouldn't fit in the empty weapons bays, since there is 50% wastage when using empty weapons bays for storing small craft. The design I described above converts the two unused Gunnery Decks into something else, anyway.

I think Hans is imagining that the cutters will use a 50-ton version of the same "racetrack" system the fighters use. You could imagine cutters moving around on this, with "sidings" for storing the various cutter modules (perhaps in some kind of "rotary magazine" several decks high?) and for cutter maintenance.

As for what kind of cutter modules, adding two more cutters and 5 extra modules still leaves 667 dtons of "unused space" to show the effect of the conversion (and give the middies someplace to play games that the instructors shouldn't know about....) So you'd have 15 cutter modules.

I'd carry 4 passenger/cargo modules, 1 "captain's yacht" module, a fuel skimmer, two assault modules, a boarding module, two fighter modules, a sensor/ECM module, a weapons module, an ATV module, and a deployable base module. That should let you cover a pretty wide range of training missions, and you could always pick up some extras from a friendly naval base if you had something special in mind.

Wartime modules would depend on the assigned mission. With her high jump capacity, this ship would probably be part of a "quick-reaction" force, or be assigned to raiding behind enemy lines. Either way her module loadout would depend on her mission. Note that if she doesn't carry the middies she can carry lots of extra troops.

On the deckplans, I notice that the Captain's and XO's suites are duplicated on the Auxiliary Bridge deck. I would think that those duplicate suites would become the quarters and offices of the Academy officers responsible for training the middies, probably including that RADM Count Whoever He Is in charge of this flying grade school.
 
In the 1970s the RAN refitted one of our old Daring class DDs (HMAS Vampire I think) for use as a training ship. From memory this involved removal of some weapons and additional superstructure for class rooms being fitted.
 
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