CT Only: Basic vs Advanced Chargen

[Supplement Four]

The argument goes on about the compatibility of characters generated with the Basic 4 year character generation and characters generated with Advanced 1 year generation.

Obviously Advanced generation delivers characters with more skills, and because of this, the two systems are often not considered compatible.

But, I know that the designers of Traveller are smart. And, looking through the various CT books, it seems to me that the designers did intend for both systems to be used, side by side, in games.



SURVIVAL

First off, often (not all the time), Advanced chargen characters are subjected to higher chances of failing survival. And, this is another argument for not using the Optional Survival rule. Hard Survival means the character dies when that roll is failed. So, the Advanced characters might get more skills, but there is also more pressure on the player to stop character generation voluntarily or face losing the character he likes for the unknown character he may be stuck with on his next attempt at character creation.



NARROW SKILLS

I'm just speaking about Book 4 here, as I haven't really looked hard at Book 5, 6, or 7 in a while.

But, if we're talking about a Mercenary, the extra skills he gets are typically focused on weapons. I don't really think that is much of an advantage.

Let's say you've got two characters. One is created through Basic Army chargen, and the other is created as a Book 4 Mercenary.

BASIC JIM

777777
AutoRifle-1, Electronics-1, ATV-2

Total: 3 Skills/4 Levels





ADVANCED FRED

777777
Combat Rifleman-1, Electronics-1, Howitzer-1, Recruiting-2, Tracked Vehicle-2

TotalL 5 Skills/7 Levels



Practically speaking, is there really that much difference between the two characters?

You could argue that Fred has combat rifleman, making him more versatile in the weapons that he can use, but in a game, don't players tend to find the weapon that they're most happy with and use that all that time? In my experience, the players don't take an UZI to one fight and a M-16 to another. The pick the weapon that best suits their character and use that all the time unless there is some over-powering reason to use a different weapon.

How often are Howitzers going to be used in a typical Traveller game?

What about Recruiting?

And, won't the Ref allow the Basic character to recruit? Sure he will. This is a non-standard type throw, and CT Ref will probably just make up an EDU based roll for the character to recruit needed personnel.





So...really, aren't Advanced Book 4 characters pretty compatible with Book 1 characters...for all practical purposes?





To support this point, here are the first 10 Book 4 generated characters from Sup 12: Veterans...

Do any of them stand out as over-powered when compared to Book 1 characters?

1. Morale: 2. Skills: Auto Weapons-1, Combat Rifleman-1, Electronics-1, Howitzer-1, Recruiting-1.

2. Morale: 5. Skills: Combat Rifleman-2, Forward Observer-2, Howitzer-1.

3. Morale: 5. Skills: Auto Weapons-1, Combat Rifleman-1, Computer-2,
Instruction-1, Mechanical-1, Recruiting-1, Survival-1.

4. Morale: 4. Skills: Admin-1, Recoilless Rifle-1, Recruiting-1, SMG-1.

5. Morale: 8. Skills: Auto Weapons-1, Combat Rifleman-1, Computer-1, Forward Observer-1, Mechanical-2, Mortar-1, Recon-1, Recruiting-2, Wheeled Vehicle-3.

6. Morale: 5. Skills: Combat Rifleman-1, Forward Observer-2, Howitzer-1.

7. Morale: 10. Skills: Combat Engineering-1, Combat Rifleman-1, Electronics-1, Pistol-1, Recruiting-2.

8. Morale: 9. Skills: Auto Weapons-1, Combat Rifleman-2, Dagger-1, Grenade Launcher-1, Instruction-2, Recon-2, Wheeled Vehicle-2.

9. Morale: 7. Skills: Combat Rifleman-1, Computer-1, Howitzer-1, Leader-1, Mechanical-2.

10. Morale: 13. Skills: Combat Engineering-1, Combat Rifleman-1, Forward
Observer-1, Mortar-1, SMG-1, Vacc Suit-2, Zero-G Combat-2.

 

[Supplement Four]

FAILING SURVIVAL



Failing the Survival roll is a big deal if a player wants to play a Mercenary character. Failing survival means that character is dead, and the player must again start the process, hoping that he can even get a Merc.



THE PROCESS

In order to get a Merc, the play must have Army and/or Marines as an available career on his homeworld.

Then, the character must roll enlistment to one of those forces. This is a 9+ throw for Marines (6+ with all mods) and a 5+ throw for Army (automatic with all mods).

Obviously, if the character is lucky, has the Army career available, had DEX 6+ and END 5+, then it is automatic to become a Merc. But, he's got to have those modifiers.



If that enlistment roll is failed, then the character must submit to the Draft. If he rolls a 2 or a 3, he can become a Merc.


Then, the character could be subjected to up to four Survival rolls per term.

So, once a player gets a Merc, he tends to want to stay with that character, if it is a Merc that he wants to play, because it may not be easy to get another one.

And, this pressure is why some players will not elect to re-enlist after the first or second term, if they survive.

 

[Supplement Four]

BOOK 6: SCOUTS



The same case about specifically focused skills cannot be made about Book 6 Advanced characters. But, I will say that there are A LOT of survival throws, even if they are 3+ (some have modifiers to make it automatic).

And, of course, Basic Scouts get 2 skills per term.

So, I'm still going with compatible.

 

[Supplement Four]

SHORT TERM


I thought that this was interesting about Book 6. If a character, 18 years old, attempts college, then fails to continue (going only that one year), then that counts towards the first term.

So, while college graduates who go four years and graduate have to enlist for a 4 year term, those who dropped out of college only have to go for a three year term (and the first year of that will be initial training--serving only 2 years outside of that).

 

[Supplement Four]

SHORT TERM


I thought that this was interesting about Book 6. If a character, 18 years old, attempts college, then fails to continue (going only that one year), then that counts towards the first term.

So, while college graduates who go four years and graduate have to enlist for a 4 year term, those who dropped out of college only have to go for a three year term (and the first year of that will be initial training--serving only 2 years outside of that).

Interesting: The above can be explained by looking at the Advanced assignments. College graduates automatically are put in the Bureaucracy Office of the IISS. Non-college graduates go to the Field Office.

The Field is a dangerous place, so, sometimes a three year contract can be signed, with one year devoted to initial training and only two years in the field.

This must be some strange clause because only college drop-outs can obtain that contract.

If going with Book 1, the character is considered to be a non-college educated Field operative with a 4 year contract.







BIG BROTHER

It is also interesting, reading Book 6, that ex-Scouts are required to keep their location data updated with the Records Branch of the Detached Duty Office of the IISS.

Although all Scouts are required to keep this data updated, it is only those who operate surplus Scout craft after leaving the IISS who usually do. The IISS seems only interested in keeping up with those who have ships.

This would be something interesting to put into a game: The character has to report in as he makes landing or orbit of each new world he visits via the Scout Base or Starport.

 

[Supplement Four]

Book 5


Interesting. One thing that Book 5 does a bit differently is that it makes the career easy to get. In Book 4 and Book 6 (I haven't looked at Book 7 yet), the player gets one attempt at enlistment, and if that fails, the character must submit to the Draft.

With Book 5, we consider a planetary navy, a subsector navy (the Colonial Navy?), and the Imperial Navy.

A character is allowed to attempt all three, if they are available.

So, a character can attempt to enlist in the Imperial Navy, fail, then enlist in the Subsector navy (if available), and upon failing that, the character can attempt the planetary navy (if available).

If these alternate navies are available, the odds are damn good that a character will get into one of the navies.



The Ref is charged with considering which navies are available.

By context, a Planetary navy seems to only patrol the solar system. A TL 7 main world homeworld is required.

A star-faring Subsector navy (which I also assume means the navies of star clusters within subsectors) requires the subsector capital to be TL-9 or higher.

 

[Straybow]

I never had anything except the basic 3 LBB77 set. I hardly even knew there was an Imperium. Once I actually started thinking about it I realized there would be Imperial (or Republic, or whatever large polity is involved) forces, regional forces, and local forces. Everything that needs to be done at the grand level needs doing at the regional level and local level with a force that can't be summoned away at an inconvenient time or to uncomfortable extent.

Regional forces might be as hard to get in as Imp/Rep. Local would be easier.

The exception is Army, which would always be local. The Marines are the Imp/Rep ground force, they just don't do tedious mop-up and occupation work. Get in, get the objective, get out.

The Imp/Rep depends upon member nobles/states to field their own armies and supply them when called up in war and occupation. The Emperor/Capital home system would have its Army, and it would be impressively huge and expensively equipped, but nowhere near big enough to fight and occupy many worlds.

Draft would always be local. Imp/Rep and regional are never short of candidates. They rejected you; they aren't going to draft you. Your homeworld can count on a certain amount of loyalty, but a distant ruler not so much. Draftees are always lacking compared to volunteers.

 

[BlackBat242]

SHORT TERM

I thought that this was interesting about Book 6. If a character, 18 years old, attempts college, then fails to continue (going only that one year), then that counts towards the first term.

So, while college graduates who go four years and graduate have to enlist for a 4 year term, those who dropped out of college only have to go for a three year term (and the first year of that will be initial training--serving only 2 years outside of that).

Interesting: The above can be explained by looking at the Advanced assignments. College graduates automatically are put in the Bureaucracy Office of the IISS. Non-college graduates go to the Field Office.

The Field is a dangerous place, so, sometimes a three year contract can be signed, with one year devoted to initial training and only two years in the field.

This must be some strange clause because only college drop-outs can obtain that contract.

If going with Book 1, the character is considered to be a non-college educated Field operative with a 4 year contract.

I always equated that with a couple of people from my personal experience.

1. One of my platoon-mates in USMC boot camp had attended a private military college for a year or two, and graduated basic as a L/Cpl (E-3). The best anyone else did was PFC (E-2) - I had that because of my 3 years of high school JROTC classes.

2. During my specialty schools in 1981-98 (USMC/USN aircraft electronics maintenance) one of my classmates in the "advanced first-term avionics" (AFTA) school was a USAF Academy "dropout". He had completed 2 years in the Academy before leaving, for unspecified reasons. He enlisted in the USMC, and graduated basic training with the rank of L/CPL. He told me that his 2 years of the Academy counted for "time in service" and "years of active service".

Therefore, I always considered that this was what had happened with those "college dropouts" - they were attending a service academy (or military college associated with their service, or in an ROTC unit at their college) and that college year counted towards their first term because it also included military/scout training as well as academics.


Book 5 also has this rule for civilian college dropouts.
With book 5 there is a separate Naval Academy option, so the "college" was obviously for civilian schools - either with an NOTC/NROTC unit or a private military college.


Book 7 also has the "college dropout" rule, and a "Merchant Academy" option.


Book 4 is the only advanced chargen book without the "college dropout" rule.

 

[Brandon C]

FAILING SURVIVAL

Failing the Survival roll is a big deal if a player wants to play a Mercenary character. Failing survival means that character is dead, and the player must again start the process, hoping that he can even get a Merc.

Or, more likely, the player obsessed with playing a merc will keep rolling characters, wasting my time as GM, until they get what they want.

This is why, very early on, every character gets three terms without needing a survival or reinlistment roll, a failed survival does not result in death, and all characters either use advanced generation or basic generation, but not both in the same campaign.

 

[Supplement Four]

Or, more likely, the player obsessed with playing a merc will keep rolling characters, wasting my time as GM, until they get what they want.

And, that's completely fine. Trying to kill a character is not always possible, but is likely if a player tries.

I don't look at this as wasting time. Those dead characters are valuable NPCs for the Ref to use in the game.

Plus, the idea of killing off a character in order to get another chance at what the player wants is one of the few mechanisms a player has to ensure that he does, indeed, get to play the type of character he wants.

Soon, the player will get attached to a character, and he'll be pleased with what the guy turned out to be.

I've even used the "dead" characters as family, friends, squadmates, and so on once the game has started.

This is why, very early on, every character gets three terms without needing a survival or reinlistment roll, a failed survival does not result in death, and all characters either use advanced generation or basic generation, but not both in the same campaign.

So, all of your games have PCs that are all the same age?

 

[Brandon C]

I don't look at this as wasting time. Those dead characters are valuable NPCs for the Ref to use in the game.

I just assign skills and attributes based on what I need the NPC to do.

So, all of your games have PCs that are all the same age?

A minimum starting age. Every gets three terms without having to make survival rolls in the first three terms or reinlistment rolls at the end of the first two. I want a minimum skill set for PCs in my campaigns.

 

[kilemall]

I've resolved it by squishing skills together so you don't have cascade/differentiation skills, gone to LBB1/S4 characters with an extra table that has LBB4+/CE skills I think those careers need/could use, and just sticking with classic chargen or a fast and dirty variant for manual creation.

 

[McPerth]

Interesting: The above can be explained by looking at the Advanced assignments. College graduates automatically are put in the Bureaucracy Office of the IISS. Non-college graduates go to the Field Office.

I'm afraid this is inexact:

LBB6, page 9:

In the Socut Service, a college education is generally necessary for an indivicual to secure assignment to the Bureaucracy

LBB6, page 12 (under Enlistment):

The Bureaucracy: Only college graduates may join the Bureaucracy

So, as I read it, College graduates may also join the Field offices, they just have the possibility to join the BUreaucracy from the begining of their careers, but are not obligated to do so.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm araid this is inexact:.

I'm not so sure. Granted, I was skimming a book that I haven't read in decades. But, I was going by this..

Page 10, Book 6: College graduates already know that they are in the Bureaucracy; non-college graduates know that they are in the Field.

That reads to me that college grads go one way. Non-college grads go the other.



This is supported by the checklist on page 20, where it says...

3A. Non-College graduates enter the Field.

3B. College graduates enter the Bureaucracy.

3C. Honors graduates enter the Bureaucracy with rank 01 automatically.

 

[McPerth]

I'm not so sure. Granted, I was skimming a book that I haven't read in decades. But, I was going by this..

Page 10, Book 6: College graduates already know that they are in the Bureaucracy; non-college graduates know that they are in the Field.

That reads to me that college grads go one way. Non-college grads go the other.

True, and yet my former quote (where it says College graduates may join the Bureaucracy) seem to point the other way (they also may join the Field, if they so wish)...

It seems we have contradictory quotes from the same book :CoW:...

This is supported by the checklist on page 20, where it says...

3A. Non-College graduates enter the Field.

3B. College graduates enter the Bureaucracy.

3C. Honors graduates enter the Bureaucracy with rank 01 automatically.

I've always thought the detailed section overrules any sumary, as those latter are resumes and have less detail.

 

[Supplement Four]

I've always thought the detailed section overrules any sumary, as those latter are resumes and have less detail.

That sounds reasonable, but I will point out that there are more sources that say college goes to B. and non-college goes to F. in the rules. The duplication (same idea written differently) makes me lean towards supporting that idea.

 

[Supplement Four]

True, and yet my former quote (where it says College graduates may join the Bureaucracy) seem to point the other way (they also may join the Field, if they so wish)...

It seems we have contradictory quotes from the same book :CoW:...

Ya know, looking at it in more depth, I don't think it's a contradiction at all. I think it speaks to the fact that a transfer is possible.

See page 11 under "Transfers".

 

[McPerth]

Ya know, looking at it in more depth, I don't think it's a contradiction at all. I think it speaks to the fact that a transfer is possible.

See page 11 under "Transfers".

The transfer is from Field to Bureaucracy. not the other way (after all, it's only in the Field table for year assignment), so I don't see it relevant here.

The contradiction, IMHO, is that while, as you say, in Page 10 it says the College graduates are assigned to Bureaucracy, in page 12 it says they may choose it (so hinting they may also choose to go to Field).

 

[Supplement Four]

The ransfer is from Field to Bureaucracy. not the other way (after all, it's only in the Field table for year assignment), so I don't see it relevant here.

The contradiction, IMHO, is that while, as you say, in Page 10 it says the College graduates are assigned to Bureaucracy, in page 12 it says they may choose it (so hinting they may also choose to go to Field).

No, I believe that you are still reading that wrong.

All college graduates go to the Bureaucracy.

All non-college graduates go to the Field.


That sentence on page 9 says, "...a college education is generally necessary for an individual to secure assignment to the Bureaucracy" because there is a path for those in the Field--non-college graducates--to go into the Bureaucracy.

Notice that the Transfer Duty Assignment is only available to Scouts in the Field. See the chart on page 12.



So, all college grads go to the Bureaucracy. Characters without a college education go to the Field.

This is true unless something like this happens...

1. New character fails to obtain a college education. The character goes into the Field.

2. You roll for duty assignment and get the result of "transfer". Note that this duty assignment is only available to Scouts in the Field.

3. Now, you are a Scout, without a college education, but in the Bureaucracy.

 

[McPerth]

That sentence on page 9 says, "...a college education is generally necessary for an individual to secure assignment to the Bureaucracy" because there is a path for those in the Field--non-college graducates--to go into the Bureaucracy.

Again, that means that College is a prerequisite to have direct access to Bureaucracy, but not that it compels you to.

OTOH, the use of the world may when refering to College graduates to enlist directly in Bureaucracy seems to mean that it's their choice.

Likewise, you could say that Naval Accademy or College commissioned honors graduates are generally necessary to enter the Flight School, but that does not mean all Naval Accademy or College commissioned Honor Gradurates go to Flight School...