Bathtub! An adventure seed for Scouts

[Whipsnade]

... I realize I was pretty vague.

Please understand that I've been posting about what I would have done and not what you should have done.

You crafted a wonderfully evocative hook which lead to an exciting adventure that resulted not only in your players "earning" a ship but also in your players having a great deal of fun. That's a win by any measure and we all should be so lucky in our own games.

All the questions about "operational familiarity" after 300 years and questions about what condition the ship was in are just the posters here tailoring your adventure to their groups' specific needs. No one ever runs a module entirely as written. We always tweak something, add something, or remove something as we tailor the materials to better "fit" our games.

We're taking a suit off the rack to lengthen the sleeves or take in the shoulders so it will better suit our frame. The suit is so good that we want to wear it, we've just got to make it fit first.

 

[Timerover51]

Gentle Forum Members, I made the comment regarding the scout's condition based on my experience in 2010 and 2011 of trying to purchase the retired U.S. Coast Guard buoy tender Bramble from the Port Huron Museum in Michigan. The ship was built in 1943 and retired in 2003 after 60 years of service, some of the quite arduous. I spent two days going over the ship, along with two very qualified evaluators to determine the condition, whom I paid a nice sum of money too. I will not go into all of the details, but after a period of 7 years, the ship was going to require a fair amount of work to get operational again. Both of the main Diesel-electric generators needed work, but as they are standard Diesel-electric power plants, parts were readily available. What was required was parts and skilled labor. That is why in other posts I have referenced the Bramble so much. I have thoroughly gone over the ship.

The Bramble was finally sold to another gentleman who has spent the money to get her operational again. Check the Wikipedia page.

I have no problem with 40 year old star ships being sold, as long as they have been properly maintained. You have 60 year old cargo ships operating on the Great Lakes, with proper maintenance. A 300 year old cold ship is a different category. Thoroughly checking it out by someone with an Engineer rating of 3 or 4 would seem reasonable, probably also someone with Computer 3 or 4 to go over the computer system. For that, you run a power cable from the current scout ship to the salvaged one, power up some of the systems, clear out all of the very stale air, and then see what you have got. I am not saying that nothing is going to work, just that it needs to be thoroughly checked out by some people who know what they are doing.

 

[BlackBat242]

Well, locomotive as metaphor for old starship, they have successfully restored 1870s/1880s steam engines and even built them new using a mix of old and new techniques and standard blueprints for the National Park ones out at Promontory Point (youtube follows)-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM2A2NEaRqg



Pretty much any restoration involves making custom parts, whether steam locomotive or say WWII warbirds. It costs, but can be done after technology and mass production part supply moves on.


Plus, there is no telling what parts are lying around in warehouses for something the size of our interstellar polities.

A bit earlier than that - the replicas are faithful near-copies of those locomotives that were present on May 10, 1869.

 

[whartung]

Well, locomotive as metaphor for old starship, they have successfully restored 1870s/1880s steam engines and even built them new using a mix of old and new techniques and standard blueprints for the National Park ones out at Promontory Point (youtube follows)

The Locomotives at Knotts Berry Farm are now pushing almost 140 years old. The park has had them since the early 1950s.

They have at least one operating most every day. They basically travel in circles in the park.

They have a machine shop to maintain the locomotives, plus (at least copies of) the original plans.

We had a great tour of the engine shed once, long ago. Actually, boy, I think it was the 50th anniversary -- so that's, like, 2002. *gulp*, boy it's been awhile.

Left to the elements, they'd both be rusted hulks. They get a lot of TLC there. There are assorted "Rusted hulk" versions scattered around the desert here in So Cal.

 

[tjoneslo]

Turns out the air raft is Scout property, along with a standard Sulieman scout (I just gave it a random hull number), allotted to Senior Scout Robert Smith, for detached duty. 290 years ago!
It has been written off.

Question: Would it have made a difference to the players or the scenario if the ship had been lost 3 years ago, or 29 years ago, as opposed to 290 years ago?

I find this an interesting effect of having a 1000 year old empire, that scenarios feel free to select random three digit numbers for "years ago" events. I blame Tolkien for this.

Otherwise I agree, the hook for this was awesome, and it sounded like your players had a great deal of fun and got a pretty sweet reward out of it.

 

[nobby-w]

[ . . . ]
I have no problem with 40 year old star ships being sold, as long as they have been properly maintained. You have 60 year old cargo ships operating on the Great Lakes, with proper maintenance. A 300 year old cold ship is a different category. Thoroughly checking it out by someone with an Engineer rating of 3 or 4 would seem reasonable, probably also someone with Computer 3 or 4 to go over the computer system.
[ . . . ]

There are certainly plenty of navies still running tall ships built in the 18th or 19th century as training vessels, although these have obviously been maintained properly. Ergo, you can keep anything going pretty much indefinitely if you're prepared to spend money on it. The question is whether it is cost-effective for the owner to repair the ship or write it off and replace it.

A starship sat out in the jungle for 300 years is going to be in pretty bad condition. I don't see it being cost-effectively salvageable. A ship sitting in a vacuum in a cave in an asteroid for 300 years might be possible to resurrect without having to do too much wholesale parts replacement. A ship properly mothballed for 300 years might be gotten back into service for a few percent of its new purchase value.

 

[gchuck]

Question: Would it have made a difference to the players or the scenario if the ship had been lost 3 years ago, or 29 years ago, as opposed to 290 years ago?

Actually, yes it does. If you look at the Trav Map, the Storr sector was 'zeroed' for some reason or another. Fifteen or twenty years ago. Long before I discovered the map.
I just set up my campaign to take advantage of that. Filled out sector, with no people.

Arbitrarily, of course, some time about 300 years ago, settlements stopped communicating with their mother worlds. (Mostly Wise Council) When ships finally made their way there, sometimes several years had passed, they found nothing. No people. No buildings. Nothing.

The 'Misty' had been in the area when all this was thought to have occurred. A clue.
A month or so ago, the group discovered an abandoned ROM site. Filled with desiccated bodies, and an android in what looked like a low-berth. They couldn't get a scan on it, and woke it up. It broke a pc's arm and took off running. Another clue.

I am slowly driving my players insane.

The ship is central to figuring out the mystery.

 

[tjoneslo]

Actually, yes it does. If you look at the Trav Map, the Storr sector was 'zeroed' for some reason or another. Fifteen or twenty years ago. Long before I discovered the map.
I just set up my campaign to take advantage of that. Filled out sector, with no people.

Based upon the history of the data I am aware of: DGP created the dot maps published in Solomani and Aslan which covered Storr sector, but that data was never released. The data you have seen and in now in Traveller Map was fan-generated with the population zeroed. Why it was generated that way I've never seen an explanation.

Arbitrarily, of course, some time about 300 years ago, settlements stopped communicating with their mother worlds. (Mostly Wise Council) When ships finally made their way there, sometimes several years had passed, they found nothing. No people. No buildings. Nothing.

The 'Misty' had been in the area when all this was thought to have occurred. A clue.
A month or so ago, the group discovered an abandoned ROM site. Filled with desiccated bodies, and an android in what looked like a low-berth. They couldn't get a scan on it, and woke it up. It broke a pc's arm and took off running. Another clue.

I am slowly driving my players insane.

The ship is central to figuring out the mystery.

Neat. I always love a good mystery, even though I'm terrible at solving them.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Gentle Forum Members, I made the comment regarding the scout's condition based on my experience in 2010 and 2011 of trying to purchase the retired U.S. Coast Guard buoy tender Bramble from the Port Huron Museum in Michigan. The ship was built in 1943 and retired in 2003 after 60 years of service, some of the quite arduous. I spent two days going over the ship, along with two very qualified evaluators to determine the condition, whom I paid a nice sum of money too. I will not go into all of the details, but after a period of 7 years, the ship was going to require a fair amount of work to get operational again. Both of the main Diesel-electric generators needed work, but as they are standard Diesel-electric power plants, parts were readily available. What was required was parts and skilled labor. That is why in other posts I have referenced the Bramble so much. I have thoroughly gone over the ship.

The Bramble was finally sold to another gentleman who has spent the money to get her operational again. Check the Wikipedia page.

I have no problem with 40 year old star ships being sold, as long as they have been properly maintained. You have 60 year old cargo ships operating on the Great Lakes, with proper maintenance. A 300 year old cold ship is a different category. Thoroughly checking it out by someone with an Engineer rating of 3 or 4 would seem reasonable, probably also someone with Computer 3 or 4 to go over the computer system. For that, you run a power cable from the current scout ship to the salvaged one, power up some of the systems, clear out all of the very stale air, and then see what you have got. I am not saying that nothing is going to work, just that it needs to be thoroughly checked out by some people who know what they are doing.

It would depend on the technology. The Imperium is a couple thousand years old at least, and I've read references to vessels on the order of centuries old. Of course those were maintained (presumably).

I think ultimately it would depend on the metallurgy. If there were anti-corrosion agents or measures … say a solar collector hooked up to the ship's hull and circuits, then you have fresh electrons running over everything keeping working components "fresh", so to speak. The outer hull may be corroded, but she's otherwise flyable--at lest in the atmosphere.

The air raft, on the other hand, is a goner, or a major restoration project at a high tech garage.

 

[Enoki]

The way to look at this is it's a For want of a nail... scenario to fix this ship up.

It's not so much that it might be restorable, but that it's in the Middle-of-Nowhere and it only takes one or a few small things to keep it from potentially working-- if those things are in the right place.

For example, recently I wanted to put new front tires on my backhoe. It was in a location where there was no power, etc. as I was grading a lot with it. I brought a generator, air compressor, impact wrench, breaker bars, sockets, all the stuff to get the lug bolts off with. Yet, they wouldn't budge. Ended up driving several miles into town to a garage where the mechanic used a larger impact wrench and more air than I had and even he said they were tough to get off.

Well, if you were to run into something like this with that scout, then it doesn't get fixed unless you can come up with an alternate that might work for the situation.

In my case, the alternative was I get penetrating oil, drag an even bigger compressor and impact wrench to the lot and try again. But, that's time and effort I wasn't expecting to have to go through. So, for want of a nail...

 

[Blue Ghost]

How big a breaker bar were you using?

Some posts back you said it would be like raising the Titanic, but now you're saying getting her flying again is merely a matter of a trip to the local Kragen's? I'm not sure I follow you.

 

[Nightwind1]

Gentle Forum Members, I made the comment regarding the scout's condition based on my experience in 2010 and 2011 of trying to purchase the retired U.S. Coast Guard buoy tender Bramble from the Port Huron Museum in Michigan. The ship was built in 1943 and retired in 2003 after 60 years of service, some of the quite arduous. I spent two days going over the ship, along with two very qualified evaluators to determine the condition, whom I paid a nice sum of money too. I will not go into all of the details, but after a period of 7 years, the ship was going to require a fair amount of work to get operational again. Both of the main Diesel-electric generators needed work, but as they are standard Diesel-electric power plants, parts were readily available. What was required was parts and skilled labor. That is why in other posts I have referenced the Bramble so much. I have thoroughly gone over the ship.

The Bramble was finally sold to another gentleman who has spent the money to get her operational again. Check the Wikipedia page.

I have no problem with 40 year old star ships being sold, as long as they have been properly maintained. You have 60 year old cargo ships operating on the Great Lakes, with proper maintenance. A 300 year old cold ship is a different category. Thoroughly checking it out by someone with an Engineer rating of 3 or 4 would seem reasonable, probably also someone with Computer 3 or 4 to go over the computer system. For that, you run a power cable from the current scout ship to the salvaged one, power up some of the systems, clear out all of the very stale air, and then see what you have got. I am not saying that nothing is going to work, just that it needs to be thoroughly checked out by some people who know what they are doing.

When I was a USCG Petty Officer, I served on USCGC Sundew (WLB-404) from 1990 to 1993. Her keel was laid in 1948.

 

[Timerover51]

When I was a USCG Petty Officer, I served on USCGC Sundew (WLB-404) from 1990 to 1993. Her keel was laid in 1948.

Jeff Foster owns Sundew as far as I know, and has it running again. It is the biggest private yacht on the Great Lakes.

 

[Nightwind1]

Jeff Foster owns Sundew as far as I know, and has it running again. It is the biggest private yacht on the Great Lakes.

Yep. I'm on his FB page. He's taking good care of the old girl.

I'm planning on going up there for a ride sometime next year. Maybe the Bayfield Apple Festival. He takes her there every year.

 

[BRJN]

You crafted a wonderfully evocative hook which lead to an exciting adventure that resulted not only in your players "earning" a ship but also in your players having a great deal of fun. That's a win by any measure and we all should be so lucky in our own games.

And I for one am in awe of your creativity and the effort you put into 'just a game'. Not only do "I wish I had thought of that", I wish I had the nerve to go through with the prep work for that !

 

[aramis]

When I was a USCG Petty Officer, I served on USCGC Sundew (WLB-404) from 1990 to 1993. Her keel was laid in 1948.

A buddy of mine was on the USCGC Storis (WMEC-38) in the late 1990's... laid down earlier, 1941; was in service until 2007...

A guy on board dropped a breaker bar on the hull-sided hallway... it dropped through into blue water.

Her sister ship had a guy fall through the hull in rough weather. A year or two later, both were being decommissioned.

It is amazing how fragile a ship can be, while yet remaining seaworthy, even in heavy sea conditions.

 

[Whipsnade]

It is amazing how fragile a ship can be, while yet remaining seaworthy, even in heavy sea conditions.

I went aboard a couple of the Dixie-class destroyer tenders during the early 80s. They commissioned in the late 30s/early 40s. Dixie herself was in Subic and Yosemite in Mayport. IIRC, I saw Prairie in Long Beach. I went aboard Dixie to get some standards calibrated. A few interior passageways were chained off due to weak/corroded decks so you had to plan your trips just like you were avoiding construction on an interstate.

 

[Enoki]

How big a breaker bar were you using?

Some posts back you said it would be like raising the Titanic, but now you're saying getting her flying again is merely a matter of a trip to the local Kragen's? I'm not sure I follow you.

What I'm pointing out is that even little things could keep it from flying. It wouldn't take much to make the ship inoperable, particularly when you are starting with one that you really don't know what's wrong with it.

 

[Enoki]

I went aboard a couple of the Dixie-class destroyer tenders during the early 80s. They commissioned in the late 30s/early 40s. Dixie herself was in Subic and Yosemite in Mayport. IIRC, I saw Prairie in Long Beach. I went aboard Dixie to get some standards calibrated. A few interior passageways were chained off due to weak/corroded decks so you had to plan your trips just like you were avoiding construction on an interstate.

Had that happen on the Okinawa (LPH something or other). The ship was widely referred to as the "Brokenawa" in the Pacific Fleet. I was the poor sap in the amphib section of the ship superintendent's office (shop 10A) in San Diego who had the "book" (list of work orders) for that POS.

Southwest Marine (a civilian shipyard company) called and said they had a problem installing some equipment that had been refurbished and the needed a decision. I showed up. The SWM welders showed me that they had ground on this sponson to weld a frame holding a motor-generator set to the deck per the work order only to find that there was like 30 coats of paint and rust for a deck.

I checked with the zeros and they okey doaked my decision that the set was to be put in the hanger bay with tie downs...

 

[Blue Ghost]

What I'm pointing out is that even little things could keep it from flying. It wouldn't take much to make the ship inoperable, particularly when you are starting with one that you really don't know what's wrong with it.

I suppose, but strictly speaking there's no ship present, just an air raft that belonged to a scout ship (type-S I'm presuming), so in this sense it's kind of a moot point.

But, given that the charger for the manual and raft still work, it seems reasonable that the scout ship, if nearby, and with a like charger, could still be clean on the inside with a working avionics suite. Her drives might another story.