Non OTU: Best City for the Apocalypse?

[flykiller]

the OP asks about cities, not towns, and I keep believeing that an isolated one is more likely to depend on local ressources and so be less vulnerable to a global catastrophe.

well if you find one, let us know.

allow me to assist in this belief. consider bakersfield, california. it has oil fields (!) and, lo and behold, a refinery (!!). how rare is that! and it is an agricultural community, surrounded by hundreds of square miles of orchards, ranches, and farmland, and all the associated support services. and "a river runs through it"! doesn't get any better than that.

by the way, if it is isolated full-scale cities you want, there is none more isolated than perth, australia. been there, great place.

 

[savage]

Remember the poll description. 1 million plus population cities in their region today. For example, Honolulu city is 350k but Oahu is 950k+. Tampa city is 350k but the Tampa Bay region is 4.3 million. So, small cities with big metros count. Orlando is 2.3 million, Atlanta metro 4 million, etc.

Things to remember:

• about 1 million plus population in the early 21st century
• Mass depopulation of the Earth (pick the scenario)
• up to 20 years after the fall (you've been there a while and survived) - but if you want to describe a place during the fall or earlier go ahead.
• What city(s) would you choose for a specific apocalypse?

One could choose islands with lower populations or mountain locations. Those are the common choices because we think a big wall will keep us safe. Those towns will be foraging, raiding parties everywhere. Town wars... farms without alignment are toast.

Your one of the leaders, hiding in plain sight. People are flocking to your area...maybe.

I see why SanFran was attractive. Tampa is the same thing really except smaller which is why i chose it. LA is a good location. I lived there for almost a decade. The mountains are barriers, but it's very big. One 15m are down to 50-500k things would be tough if not interesting though. 1000 people would be a dot on the former great city. Aliens, Virus, flooding, Zombies run rampant through LA, but for rebuilding Palace Verde and the upper Mountain range are good high grounds. The city itself is of little use unless your raiding jewelry mart, but some of the towns are great opportunities for a new community.

I had 3:
Honolulu (agriculture, fishing, naval base, actually oahu is about 1 million people) - zombie apocalypse, virus strain, uplift race failure,
Tampa Bay (multiple peninsulas/islands, military base, extensive medical resources, agriculture, and fishing) - same as above
Orlando (Other) (lots of agriculture, hotels to hold up in and turn into communities, the Gaylord is enormous, Cape Canaveral is close with some military assets, freeways are barriers) and a lot of resources. - Virus, uplift failed, limited nuclear war, maybe asteroid hit.

Other options in the world are many:
Denver (agriculture, defensive position by mountains, central location) - limited nuclear war/alien invasion, uplifted race failure, asteroid hit...
Tokyo / London - capitals of large island states
Hong Kong - natural defenses, harbor.
St Petersburg - Remember, Russia was ruled from St Petersburg. It has access to Asia and Europe.
New York - It has a strategic location. However not a lot of agriculture. Would depend on hunting, trade and fishing.

 

[Blue Ghost]

that ... looks promising. watch out for 50bmg et al, I know it's illegal in california but there'll be a few and they'll have clear shots across all that water.

Been there, done that. The former local "older" teenager took a shot at me with his air rifle when I was feeding the ducks.

 

[savage]

well if you find one, let us know.

allow me to assist in this belief. consider bakersfield, california. it has oil fields (!) and, lo and behold, a refinery (!!). how rare is that! and it is an agricultural community, surrounded by hundreds of square miles of orchards, ranches, and farmland, and all the associated support services. and "a river runs through it"! doesn't get any better than that.

by the way, if it is isolated full-scale cities you want, there is none more isolated than perth, australia. been there, great place.

Big town of bakersfield on the edge of desert. Yeah 350k but not a bigger metro region. That would be a different OP. However, it is a great resource for LA if LA could control a region 100mi outside of the border. Also what specific disaster is it good for? The desert envelopes it from the Earth becoming a desert world, zombies wander in that direction, easy alien target on the way to bigger fish in LA, asteroid hit not a big deal, remote for a pandemic, raiders try to take it...

 

[savage]

Lots of isolated places in Oregon and Alaska where a small community can be self sufficient (at TL1-2), but which are isolated and largely uninhbited because there's no way to get trade into/out of the isolated valley safely and reliably.

OP.
That's part of the "which isolated area is best" poll. I haven't done that one yet. :coffeesip:

Aramis, You never got as far as Oregon in this OP. Or there was nothing there so everyone fled raiding parties with you. Try again.

Seattle metro (cities) is about 3.4 million. Anchorage is what 700k?
Probably didn't survive the next ice age. However, those zombies freeze just like anything flesh in the winter. Failed uplifted bears are a big, big problem. Aliens just really didn't care. The asteroid hit the pacific ocean...oops. Anchorage might be a place to survive like Siberia but not the hub of a new civilization.

 

[aramis]

nice list of nature's bounty. really, it is.

take a look at your shoes. how long will they last? your pants and shirts? heavy jacket? can you make replacements with local resources? can you treat an infected cut with local resources? if you lose your axe head or break your saw (used to be a real pioneer disaster, that), can you forge new ones? can you make a flint axe head? if you break or lose your glasses, can you ... well, I can't imagine what you would do. used to be a tremendous problem, hunters would get old and far-sighted, no longer able to hunt AND useless around the village.

I know how to tan and work leather; I've made armor and shields of leather, as well as shoes, hoods, and gloves. I've made garments as a job. I can weave shoes from rope, and make rope from yarn, and make yarn from fur. With a single axe and two nails, plus some string and wood, I can make a workable springpole lathe, from which I can make a decent drop spindle. I can make a sling, and stones are free. I've hunted men with a bow (using blunts); I'm certain I can take a sheep... the issue is simply getting to it before the bear... but Bear's good eating, too.

Even if I stay put, the salmon run in the local river is plenty of protein for about 5K people... (too bad there are 30K in this town, and 300K down the road...).

I know how to render nettles for local anesthetic.

I don't wear glasses... Except when painting minis.

Most of the uninhabited places in the pacific northwest are so because they're hard to get to, not because they cannot support a subsistence economy. Look up "Papa Pilgrim" - whose reason for going off grid is horrendous, but he did raise (and abuse) quite a gaggle.
And Palmer is a net-exporter... I know 3 blacksmiths in the greater Palmer-Wasilla-Houston area, 4 more in Anchorage, and only one isn't also a weaponsmith. One of them is also a gunsmith, who has entirely scratchbuilt blackpowder pistols.

In the aftermath, it's going to be the SCAers and the small town folks who survive. Sure, it's not going to be TL 7... but you don't need TL 7 to live off the land, and I'm the only one of my friends who doesn't already go hunting and fishing for food. I don't need to - they always have too much.

 

[kilemall]

I would bet on Houston and Kansas City.

The former because all the capital and organization left on the planet would want to safeguard and rebuild that refining capability. The Spice Must Flow.

Assuming the apocalypse wasn't another Chicxulub asteroid.

KC because of the combination of being the most inland and thus buffered from many of the potential doomsday threats, an inherent rail hub which would be the leading transportation medium after horses, two car plants, THE US ammo plant for small arms, all that lovely airplane manufacturing plant and surviving aviation workers at nearby Wichita, and a vast food storage medium in the underground warehouses.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Houston, if the ocean isn't polluted. It might be hot, but it's right next to Galveston Bay and all those Texans have guns. It would probably be a fortress with a large fishing industry. Although drinking water might be a problem.

Chicago, if the ocean is polluted. Winter sucks, but a lot of the population is armed (not all legally), it's got the surrounding area to grow food, good animal hunting, and fishing and "fresh" water in Lake Michigan.

This is all depending on the type of apocalypse.

 

[McPerth]

well if you find one, let us know.

If I knew it I'd voted, even if my vote was for another (and specified it)

allow me to assist in this belief. consider bakersfield, california. it has oil fields (!) and, lo and behold, a refinery (!!). how rare is that! and it is an agricultural community, surrounded by hundreds of square miles of orchards, ranches, and farmland, and all the associated support services. and "a river runs through it"! doesn't get any better than that.

by the way, if it is isolated full-scale cities you want, there is none more isolated than perth, australia. been there, great place.

As always it depends on the kind of catastrophe.

If it's about nuclear war (as T2K or worse), those same assets you talk about would be likely to make those cities a target (and that makes them bad choices). If due to a pandemic (as in Stephen King's Apocalypse), they could be good choices...

 

[DickNervous]

I know how to tan and work leather; I've made armor and shields of leather, as well as shoes, hoods, and gloves. I've made garments as a job. I can weave shoes from rope, and make rope from yarn, and make yarn from fur. With a single axe and two nails, plus some string and wood, I can make a workable springpole lathe, from which I can make a decent drop spindle. I can make a sling, and stones are free. I've hunted men with a bow (using blunts); I'm certain I can take a sheep... the issue is simply getting to it before the bear... but Bear's good eating, too.

Even if I stay put, the salmon run in the local river is plenty of protein for about 5K people... (too bad there are 30K in this town, and 300K down the road...).

I know how to render nettles for local anesthetic.

I don't wear glasses... Except when painting minis.

Most of the uninhabited places in the pacific northwest are so because they're hard to get to, not because they cannot support a subsistence economy. Look up "Papa Pilgrim" - whose reason for going off grid is horrendous, but he did raise (and abuse) quite a gaggle.
And Palmer is a net-exporter... I know 3 blacksmiths in the greater Palmer-Wasilla-Houston area, 4 more in Anchorage, and only one isn't also a weaponsmith. One of them is also a gunsmith, who has entirely scratchbuilt blackpowder pistols.

In the aftermath, it's going to be the SCAers and the small town folks who survive. Sure, it's not going to be TL 7... but you don't need TL 7 to live off the land, and I'm the only one of my friends who doesn't already go hunting and fishing for food. I don't need to - they always have too much.

I would want to be wherever Aramis is.....

 

[savage]

I could have been more specific about disasters but i think that letting all of you describe the situation in the city and the disaster is far more interesting. This is why live action RPG in the moot didn't work out.


In most cases cities are gripped by mass hysteria at some point in any disaster model. Condo complexes become communities. Food supply stops, foraging begins. For example, here in Atlanta, inside the perimeter the 200k people die from a virus plague, food supply stops. North East of the city Gwinnett county also has one of the most internationally diverse populations in the country. The blue collar workers know where the food is stored. North west is wealthy from Bulkhead through Alpharetta. Within one to two weeks there areas will be attractive for the foragers. 20-40 people get together and the mansions falls, groups of hundreds roll over small towns...more people die. I did not choose Atlanta for my city but perhaps it's a great rebuild for an asteroid hi.
If it's undead plague then the undead cover the streets and flow into the out towns. It's not stoppable. Towns are not safe either. Farms are easily overrun.
Sure hold up in an abandoned prison for a while until another survivor group clashes.

A few scenarios from the movie list i provided:

• 20 years later in Thunderdome a group of kids re-enter the city of Sydney to setup civilization again after a great disaster.
• During the fall, in Walking Dead a small group of fighters sets up a community (near the fenced botanical gardens I bet) try to destroy the undead and take care of feeble. The heroes leave the city.
• Dawn of the Planet of the Apes (15-20 years after the fall) a group rebuilds a market area in the city after rampant disease wipes 90+ percent of the human population. They attempt to use hydro to provide electricity and clash with the ape uplifts.
• Deep Impact - an asteroid hits the atlantic ocean. Mile high walls of water hit the eastern seaboard. Probably hits Europe as well. What follows?
• I am Legend - zombie virus floods the world. A scientist thinks he's survived alone fighting the horde and looking for a cure in NY. (Omega Man in LA)
• ID - aliens invade Earth destroying cities with the intention of wiping out mankind and strip mining the world.
• Mars Attacks - Martians invade just wanting to kill and fight. The next generation tries to stand up "in Washington DC" after the global collapse.
• 28 weeks later - effort to repopulate London after a British zombie pandemic.

So pick your city, pick your disaster, describe why you like the city for rebuilding the world. Have fun! Don't run to a town and not play! Put together a scenario explaining the situation.

 

[savage]

Houston, if the ocean isn't polluted. It might be hot, but it's right next to Galveston Bay and all those Texans have guns. It would probably be a fortress with a large fishing industry. Although drinking water might be a problem.

Chicago, if the ocean is polluted. Winter sucks, but a lot of the population is armed (not all legally), it's got the surrounding area to grow food, good animal hunting, and fishing and "fresh" water in Lake Michigan.

This is all depending on the type of apocalypse.

Good ones. Houston could also be refitting oil wells or an oil rig. The perimeter freeway structure acts like a city wall in many areas.
Chicago also is near enormous natural gas storage mid-state. Condo structures near the Magnificent mile could have resulted in north of the river, west of the river vs south of the river communities. Any scenario you like?

 

[Timerover51]

I would have voted for "None of the Above" if that were an option. In my view, 20 years after the something resembling the Apocalypse, you would not have many cities, if any, over 1 million in population.

As for 20 years after the Apocalypse as discussed in a certain not-to-be-mentioned book, the question itself is meaningless.

 

[flykiller]

I know how to render nettles for local anesthetic.

<salute>

I would want to be wherever Aramis is.....

hear that? that's the sound of a hundred thousand, looking at their rv's and planes and boats and gun collections, nodding in agreement.

and that's if it all goes down suddenly. if it's a long slow drawdown, make it a million. buying their way in.

(given what goes on around here we could expect up to 250,000 in rv's, all armed and trying to live off the land, and within a week not so much as a grasshopper left.)

 

[flykiller]

ok then.

constantinople (istanbul). awesome trade route location, awesome defensive position, awesome wall still mostly intact, awesome domination of the entire med and middle east.

 

[Timerover51]

Chicago also is near enormous natural gas storage mid-state. Condo structures near the Magnificent mile could have resulted in north of the river, west of the river vs south of the river communities. Any scenario you like?

The gas storage area you mention is dependent upon gas pipelines coming from the area of Oklahoma, Texas, and the Gulf of Mexico. It contains enough gas for a normal Midwest winter, that is all. The pipeline company supplying the gas pumps all summer long to refill the storage area. If, as a result of whatever caused the catastrophic disaster, the New Madrid fault in southeastern Missouri lets go, you will have no gas pipelines left to supply natural gas.

 

[savage]

Tampa Bay: Tropical Death, a zombie apocalypse

I have some time to work on one of my final apocalypse cities:

Tampa Bay is a blue collar & retirement city metro before the Zombie apocalypse. It's believed that the disaster came through Atlanta, New York and Orlando. Possibly by air traffic from Africa. No one really knew, the CDC didn't last long. When the zombie apocalypse, the Tropical Death, hit St Petersburg airport it quickly moved through neighboring Clearwater and St Pete there the elderly fell quickly to its effects. it caused brain damage and increased the victims strength through regular spasm. Terrified residence stuck to their homes as factory infrastructure/shipping collapsed and reports that tens of thousands of Dead walking the freeways and streets through the upper city we're quickly validated.
A group of vets, techs and doctors secure a downtown Tampa hotel on Harbor island during the fall.Thousands of shocked survivors blocked the bridges and built up the defenses. Old Town shopping plaza walled itself with fencing and local residence ran inside the barricades. The Air Force established perimeters along the freeway system north of downtown and along the Tampa peninsula. Blocking the bridges to Clearwater and St Petersburg we're the only options.
Davis island's easy access resulted in an influx of Dead crossing the bridges.
splitting the military from the downtown residence. 2 years later, only a few hundred residence and refugees of Harbor Island stood. Fishing and foraging become common. Efforts to repopulate David Island failed and raiding McDill base brought some success. A small damn project, under one one of the downtown bridges, generated a little electricity in year 10 making the difference. Rumors of a colony on St Pete Island fostered hope after access to the fuel storage reserves we're re-established. Efforts to travel that distance, by boat, we're costly and typically resulted in making landfall along the way. Some of those boats never came back. The Navy had placed a Frigate off the coast of McDill Air Force Base and across from downtown Tampa, a Cuba transit Ocean Ferry had been docked. The vessels we're key to operating a more successful expansion role. 15 years after the apocalypse, moving them both to downtown and cleaning them out was a major task. Groups regularly cleared the downtown region from the convention center to Old Town. Re-habitation was considered but they just didn't need and couldn't patrol all of the space. Incursions we're regular events. The zombies we're still out there, still hunting. 18 years after the fall Davis island was colonized again. This time different defenses we're put in place to provide protection for the residence. A plan to re-blockade Tampa peninsula and gain control over everything south of the freeway emerged. It was on a McDill raiding mission that the first shots of war we're fired. High speed pirate boats had been there and tried cutting off the party. A captured pirate told the story of a ruthless St Pete Island culture that took what it needed and killed more than zombies to survive. So, began the Bay War.

 

[savage]

The gas storage area you mention is dependent upon gas pipelines coming from the area of Oklahoma, Texas, and the Gulf of Mexico. It contains enough gas for a normal Midwest winter, that is all. The pipeline company supplying the gas pumps all summer long to refill the storage area. If, as a result of whatever caused the catastrophic disaster, the New Madrid fault in southeastern Missouri lets go, you will have no gas pipelines left to supply natural gas.

Plenty for a population of thousands.
As a disaster point it doesn't effect the rest of the planet. However, thousands of small asteroid hits one in the storage facility, another in Lake Michigan, etc. would leave a massive disaster scenario. Chicago had the river and channel system which made it a trade hub larger than St Louis. In "The Last Ship", St Louis becomes the seat of a new government.

 

[jcrocker]

A few scenarios from the movie list i provided:

• 20 years later in Thunderdome a group of kids re-enter the city of Sydney to setup civilization again after a great disaster.
• During the fall, in Walking Dead a small group of fighters sets up a community (near the fenced botanical gardens I bet) try to destroy the undead and take care of feeble. The heroes leave the city.
• Dawn of the Planet of the Apes (15-20 years after the fall) a group rebuilds a market area in the city after rampant disease wipes 90+ percent of the human population. They attempt to use hydro to provide electricity and clash with the ape uplifts.
• Deep Impact - an asteroid hits the atlantic ocean. Mile high walls of water hit the eastern seaboard. Probably hits Europe as well. What follows?
• I am Legend - zombie virus floods the world. A scientist thinks he's survived alone fighting the horde and looking for a cure in NY. (Omega Man in LA)
• ID - aliens invade Earth destroying cities with the intention of wiping out mankind and strip mining the world.
• Mars Attacks - Martians invade just wanting to kill and fight. The next generation tries to stand up "in Washington DC" after the global collapse.
• 28 weeks later - effort to repopulate London after a British zombie pandemic.

I guess Day of the Triffids is too old school?

Except in that one, they had to leave 50s London after a few weeks. That plague wasn't cholera, you know...

 

[savage]

I guess Day of the Triffids is too old school?

Except in that one, they had to leave 50s London after a few weeks. That plague wasn't cholera, you know...

:rofl: That is old school. I was looking for younger monsters in the example but whatever makes for a good story.