Non OTU: Best City for the Apocalypse?

[Timerover51]

Plenty for a population of thousands.
As a disaster point it doesn't effect the rest of the planet. However, thousands of small asteroid hits one in the storage facility, another in Lake Michigan, etc. would leave a massive disaster scenario. Chicago had the river and channel system which made it a trade hub larger than St Louis. In "The Last Ship", St Louis becomes the seat of a new government.

You do understand that the natural gas storage sites are all underground, either in former natural gas fields or partially dissolved salt domes, there is very limited above ground storage.

What made Chicago a major trade hub was its location on Lake Michigan and the railroads having to go around the Great Lakes. The location on Lake Michigan allowed it to send cargo cheaply by ship through the Great Lakes to Buffalo and the connection to the Erie Canal.

 

[savage]

You do understand that the natural gas storage sites are all underground, either in former natural gas fields or partially dissolved salt domes, there is very limited above ground storage.

What made Chicago a major trade hub was its location on Lake Michigan and the railroads having to go around the Great Lakes. The location on Lake Michigan allowed it to send cargo cheaply by ship through the Great Lakes to Buffalo and the connection to the Erie Canal.

I lived near it. There is above ground storage an hour outside the city connected to underground storage and many, many pipes. Clearly, the network your describing.

 

[Timerover51]

I lived near it. There is above ground storage an hour outside the city connected to underground storage and many, many pipes. Clearly, the network your describing.

That is only the immediate working supply for the Chicago area, the main storage area is downstate, well south of Springfield, with the main underground pipelines coming up through Kankakee and Joliet. The Kankakee line branches over to Indiana and supplies northwestern Indiana.

 

[savage]

That is only the immediate working supply for the Chicago area, the main storage area is downstate, well south of Springfield, with the main underground pipelines coming up through Kankakee and Joliet. The Kankakee line branches over to Indiana and supplies northwestern Indiana.

Really. Very interesting. Still it flows. In a disaster how long would the immediate working supply last?

Illinois has 11+ nuclear facilities, as i recall. Another opportunity for a disaster scenario. But only useable in a regional situation.

 

[flykiller]

Illinois has 11+ nuclear facilities, as i recall. Another opportunity for a disaster scenario. But only useable in a regional situation.

those regions can be quite large, and the effects of very long duration.

nice setting for gamma world though ....

 

[atpollard]

Detroit, Michigan

You would hardly notice any change at all.
The junk mail would stop coming, that's about it.

 

[flykiller]

You would hardly notice any change at all.

the man has a point. if you can make it in detroit, you're ready for anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ool0dVCK4YY

the future creeping in on little cat feet ....

 

[savage]

Detroit, Michigan

You would hardly notice any change at all.
The junk mail would stop coming, that's about it.

Funny. But it's about starting off a new civilization from the old. Would anyone really want a civilization started in Detroit much less, south of 8 mile?

 

[flykiller]

Would anyone really want a civilization started in Detroit

depends on the resources located there at that specific time. civilizations are built on people. this requires water, food, space, etc, but it's quite possible to have all those things and nothing but a wilderness. people make the civilization. "neither ship nor house nor field are anything if there be no man in it."

 

[flykiller]

nobody likes paris or munich? oh come on, these are ancient cities with multiple reasons for existing, they will continue in one form or another after all but the worst extinction level events.

 

[atpollard]

nobody likes paris or munich? oh come on, these are ancient cities with multiple reasons for existing, they will continue in one form or another after all but the worst extinction level events.

Considering the history of the 20th century, aren't they likely to be Ground Zero? That would be like rebuilding Japan after WW2 by starting at Hiroshima. (although, as a Gamma World fan, the extra arms might be useful.)

 

[savage]

nobody likes paris or munich? oh come on, these are ancient cities with multiple reasons for existing, they will continue in one form or another after all but the worst extinction level events.

Yeah. We're American centric. I chose a number of global examples because civilization didn't start here. If a reasonable sized population exists then trying to restart civilization before a generation is dead means rehabbing some of the facilities and infrastructure. Libraries, waterworks are there to be used.

There are many, many options. I started this thread to see what people would come up with scenarios, cities and situation. Given that certain capitals we're gone, the leaders with them and an enormous global population decline. Paris, Munich, St Petersburg are wonderful locations for an EU rebirth.

The questions isn't about "how do i survive?" That's easy run and hide. The question is how do I help a restart after a collapse before it's too late. Paris and Munich may have particularly good hunting after a collapse. If Munich rebirth population uses the Rhine then Bavaria/Austria is a nice location. Same with Hamburg which has it's sea access and industry, but there are only 20 slots in a poll. St Petersburg has immense resources with the Neva river, islands, even a castle to rally around.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Funny. But it's about starting off a new civilization from the old. Would anyone really want a civilization started in Detroit much less, south of 8 mile?

Well, to be blunt, by 1,000,000+ city standards, Detroit is ready made for the post-Apocalypse, if for no other reason than that it's already got a massive head start over everybody else in the apocalypse game. Huge swathes of its residential areas have been cleared already, making them ready-made for compact, defendable freehold farmsteads. Last I heard, somebody was converting parts of the city into vineyards.

The place I wouldn't want to be, post-Apocalypse, is South Florida, New Orleans, DC or Manhattan. It's going to take pre-Apocalypse grade engineering to keep those places out of the briny to begin with; absent that, you're just going to compound whatever Mad Max issues you've already got by trying to make a go of things in a malarial swamp.

 

[flykiller]

Detroit ... already got a massive head start over everybody else in the apocalypse game.

well ... the fun part of apocalyptic engineering is the "here's how _I_ would do it" part. but looking at detroit one is left with nothing but a feeling of "oh ick, can I generate another character please?"

 

[flykiller]

That would be like rebuilding Japan after WW2 by starting at Hiroshima.

 

[savage]

nobody likes paris or munich? oh come on, these are ancient cities with multiple reasons for existing, they will continue in one form or another after all but the worst extinction level events.

Yeah. We're American centric. I chose a number of global examples because civilization didn't start here. If a reasonable sized population exists then trying to restart civilization before a generation is dead means rehabbing some of the facilities and infrastructure. Libraries, waterworks are there to be used.

There are many, many options. I started this thread to see what people would come up with scenarios, cities and situation. Given that certain capitals we're gone, the leaders with them and an enormous global population decline. Paris, Munich, St Petersburg are wonderful locations for an EU rebirth.

The questions isn't about "how do i survive?" That's easy run and hide. The question is how do I help a restart after a collapse before it's too late. Paris and Munich may have particularly good hunting after a collapse. If Munich rebirth population uses the Rhine then Bavaria/Austria is a nice location. Same with Hamburg which has it's sea access and industry, but there are only 20 slots in a poll. St Petersburg has immense resources with the Neva river, islands, even a castle to rally around.


There is a time period after a collapse when society has not forgotten the basics. As expertise dies off, so does the opportunity to stop the fall to TL2. A few movies do a great job showing the collapse situation. I knew Detroit 25+ years ago. They tried to make a comeback but kept botching it. Now demolition is the only approach.

 

[flykiller]

I knew Detroit 25+ years ago. They tried to make a comeback but kept botching it.

<deleted to avoid the apocalypse>

As expertise dies off, so does the opportunity to stop the fall to TL2.

you know, there's people out there who want ... well, to put it gently and indirectly, who want tl2. 1. 0. they will try to accelerate the process of expertise dying off ....

 

[Timerover51]

I knew Detroit 25+ years ago. They tried to make a comeback but kept botching it. Now demolition is the only approach.

Moderators, is this not crossing the bar into distinct political commentary, especially the "demolition" comment?

 

[flykiller]

oh alright. geez. (deletes post)

 

[savage]

Moderators, is this not crossing the bar into distinct political commentary, especially the "demolition" comment?

No timerover51 it is not. There are miles of Detroit that need to be torn down and started from scratch. There is nothing political about it, it's a historic fact. Hundreds of buildings we're demolished and many more need to be torn down. Even GM moved into a hotel. Sadly, many structures are past the point of "rehab". Go checkout an urban explorer website for Detroit and find out yourself. I am not saying it has nothing to offer. I am saying it is in physically poor condition. Now, perhaps one of the adjacent towns offers a good starting place. Feel free to figure it out if it meets the minimum pop limit.

This thread is oriented towards identifying cities for the stabilization and restarting society in any number of disaster scenarios. Play nice.