CT Only: Big Far Trader (Type R2)

[Grav_Moped]

Big Fat Far Trader, Type R2: 400Td, J2/2G

This is the ship for which the 400Td LBB2 Standard Hull was intended. (The Type R Subsidized Merchant is its low-budget variant.)
It is identical to the Type R as described on LBB2'81, p. 19 except as noted below.

1. Jump Drive, Maneuver Drive, and Power Plant are all Size D. This gives J2/2G performance.
2. The computer is upgraded to a Model/1bis.
3. It has 100, not 50, tons of fuel. This comes entirely out of the cargo bay, which now holds only 152.5 tons of cargo.

Listed cargo space includes the 2Td set aside for fire control for two turrets, listed passenger space includes 2 staterooms that would be needed for gunners if both turrets were mounted.

Cost is MCr 123.63 as a standard design, MCr21.6 more than the canon Type R Subsidized Merchant.

A common upgrade is to install a TL13 fuel processor in the 5Td wasted space in the drive bay (only allowed by house rule, justified because it's drives-related machinery). Cost is Cr30,000.

Note that unlike the canon Type R, it cannot be operated profitably under the LBB2 cargo rules as written,

Spoiler

Under slightly better than average circumstances, the Type R can be profitable if the carried small craft is omitted.

and a subsidy will be required unless it relies on speculative trading. However, in that case it has a much larger cargo hold than necessary for most speculative goods.

It is profitable if cargo rates are Cr1000/parsec instead of Cr1000/jump, especially if passenger fares are adjusted to reflect the opportunity cost of Cr1000/parsec cargo.

 

[Proneutron]

Nice. I do think per parsec pricing is the way to go too.

 

[Condottiere]

Fat was probably that writer having fun with word play.

My contribution was Flea Trader.

Further segmentation would result in Far(t) Trader, for the really long ranged big 'uns.

 

[Grav_Moped]

"Flea Trader" could be one of the 100-tonners.

If they skipped on the mortgage, they're a Flee Trader.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Nice. I do think per parsec pricing is the way to go too.

It mostly works through J3 in moderately-sized ships (if the per-parsec rate covers costs for moderately-sized J1 ships, it slightly overpays J2 and slightly underpays J3).

J4 and J5 can't recover costs at flat per-parsec rates though, and will need a cargo time-sensitivity multiplier (with associated reduction in volume shipped) to get by.

This is particularly the case for J4, which directly competes with 2J2 running a gas-and-go schedule (2+ weeks point-to-point). J5 competes with 2J2+1J1 (3+ weeks) or the less-efficient -- but still cheaper than J5 -- 1J3+1J2 (2+ weeks).

 

[Grav_Moped]

And as for the ship? There's room for players to really upgrade this thing, as Another Dilbert pointed out on another thread.

- Upgrade the powerplant to Size E (doesn't change fuel requirements or rating, costs MCr4 and uses up 3 of the 5 wasted tons in the drive bay)
- Upgrade the computer to Model/3 (Costs 16MCr but you can get a little back from selling the Mod/1bis, takes 2 tons out of cargo space)
- Get the Double-Fire computer program. (You needed the Mod/3 to have CPU space to run it.)
- Wheedle your referee into letting you retroactively declare that the hull had four hardpoints rather than the two the ship normally has.
- Buy a Type J Seeker (a used Type S Scout). Swap the sensor suites over, re-sell the Type J at a discount because it now has only civilian sensors.
- Mount 4 triple laser turrets
- Pretend to be an ordinary Type R Fat Trader, and go pirate-hunting...
- Optional: Pack several fighters into the cargo bay, in breakaway crates labeled "Armored Vehicles". Everyone loves a surprise!

- Oh, and add a fuel processor if you didn't already have one.

 

[Swiftbrook]

Why the M-2 D-drive? I don't see a need for it. And if you use the early printing of LBB2, you don't even need to have a PP equal to the JD, just equal to the MD.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

J4 and J5 can't recover costs at flat per-parsec rates though, and will need a cargo time-sensitivity multiplier (with associated reduction in volume shipped) to get by.

That is what drop tanks are for...

Example:
J-6 freighter using drop tanks:

MF-B662662-000000-00000-0        MCr 600       2 000 Dton    Ag=2
MF-C631362-000000-00000-0        MCr 600       3 200 Dton
bearing                                           Crew=19
batteries                                           TL=15
           Cargo=1551 Fuel=60 EP=120 Agility=1 DropT=1200

Single Occupancy                                  1 551       750
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             B          2 000          
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                      160
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
                                                                 
Drop Tanks          1 200 Dton                                  1
Total tonnage       3 200 Dton                                   
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         V                  2    1        39        80
Power Plant         Z                  6    1        73       192
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-6, 4 weeks            6        60          
Purifier                                    1        19         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        40        10
Computer            m/6                6    1         7        55
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 19        76        10
                                                                 
Cargo                                             1 551          
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                            10        10          
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 749,90           Sum:     1 551       750
Class Cost          MCr 157,48          Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 599,92                                   
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge    10
Passengers            Mid     0          19       Engineers     3
                      Low     0                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     6
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
       MCr 599,92      kCr 119 984        kCr 2 500              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank              Cr 1 199 840          High         Cr         0
Fuel + Drop Tank  Cr 1 326 000          Middle       Cr         0
Life Support      Cr    38 000          Low          Cr         0
Salaries          Cr    38 400          Cargo        Cr 1 240 000
Maintenance       Cr    23 997                                   
Berthing          Cr     2 000                                   
                                                                 
Summa            kCr     2 628                      kCr     1 240
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr -1388                    
  Yearly yield on down payment     -28,9%

Not profitable at kCr 1 / Dt, but at kCr 3 / Dt. Spectacularly profitable at kCr 6 / Dt...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Why the M-2 D-drive? I don't see a need for it.

Very useful if you want to land on a size 8+ world, with a 1+ G gravity field.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Why the M-2 D-drive? I don't see a need for it. And if you use the early printing of LBB2, you don't even need to have a PP equal to the JD, just equal to the MD.

In LBB2'81, the marginal cost of upgrading the ship from 1G to 2G is MCr4. On this ship in particular, it costs no tonnage since the Standard Hull's drive bay space can't be used for anything but drives and would otherwise be wasted.*

It doesn't require additional power plant or fuel tankage since '81 rules require Pn=Jn so it already has Pn-2 and the 20Td fuel allocated.

Oh yeah, and what he said:

Very useful if you want to land on a size 8+ world, with a 1+ G gravity field.

(You posted while I was typing. )





*I'd house-rule that a fuel processor (or as much of one as will fit, depending on the TL, with the rest outside) can go into unused drive bay space, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Grav_Moped]

That is what drop tanks are for...

Spoiler

Example:
J-6 freighter using drop tanks:

MF-B662662-000000-00000-0        MCr 600       2 000 Dton    Ag=2
MF-C631362-000000-00000-0        MCr 600       3 200 Dton
bearing                                           Crew=19
batteries                                           TL=15
           Cargo=1551 Fuel=60 EP=120 Agility=1 DropT=1200

Single Occupancy                                  1 551       750
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             B          2 000          
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                      160
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
                                                                 
Drop Tanks          1 200 Dton                                  1
Total tonnage       3 200 Dton                                   
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         V                  2    1        39        80
Power Plant         Z                  6    1        73       192
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-6, 4 weeks            6        60          
Purifier                                    1        19         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        40        10
Computer            m/6                6    1         7        55
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 19        76        10
                                                                 
Cargo                                             1 551          
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                            10        10          
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 749,90           Sum:     1 551       750
Class Cost          MCr 157,48          Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 599,92                                   
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge    10
Passengers            Mid     0          19       Engineers     3
                      Low     0                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     6
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
       MCr 599,92      kCr 119 984        kCr 2 500              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank              Cr 1 199 840          High         Cr         0
Fuel + Drop Tank  Cr 1 326 000          Middle       Cr         0
Life Support      Cr    38 000          Low          Cr         0
Salaries          Cr    38 400          Cargo        Cr 1 240 000
Maintenance       Cr    23 997                                   
Berthing          Cr     2 000                                   
                                                                 
Summa            kCr     2 628                      kCr     1 240
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr -1388                    
  Yearly yield on down payment     -28,9%

Not profitable at kCr 1 / Dt, but at kCr 3 / Dt. Spectacularly profitable at kCr 6 / Dt...

Yep, drop tanks revolutionize high-Jn shipping if you use them.

 

[GypsyComet]

Very useful if you want to land on a size 8+ world, with a 1+ G gravity field.

Only under some interpretations of the rules.

 

[Proneutron]

Only under some interpretations of the rules.

??? Where in the rules does it state physics doesn't work regarding gravity and measured thrust???

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Very useful if you want to land on a size 8+ world, with a 1+ G gravity field.

Only under some interpretations of the rules.

How do you land on a high gravity planet with a 1 G ship?

 

[Proneutron]

How do you land on a high gravity planet with a 1 G ship?

With a space shuttle type craft one could do it if there was a thick enough atmosphere. If insufficient atmosphere you'd need more thrust from somewhere. But, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know and have considered. Without wings one just punches the S.O.L. button.

 

[Fovean]

Only under some interpretations of the rules.

Can anyone point me to a rule set that describes trading for Thrust for SurfaceG?

I’ve been doing it IMTU for years but have never seen a real breakdown in the rules.

 

[Proneutron]

Can anyone point me to a rule set that describes trading for Thrust for SurfaceG?

What do you mean by "trading"? There is thrust measured in G's and World diameter that is linked to a G level. Akin to the measurement of the distance between star systems in parsecs and measuring Jump drive power in parsecs.

 

[Grav_Moped]

There are at least two possible ways to allow 1G ships to take off and land on 1.1-1.2G worlds.

The first is to allow over-driving the power plant and maneuver drive for brief periods.

The second is to assume the presence of anti-gravity lifters (Air/Raft type) in addition to the Maneuver Drive, so that a 1G ship can do 1G in any direction even in a gravity well.

The first forces some interesting role-playing decisions and drama (Each 1000-sec combat turn, roll 8+, +DM Engineering skill, failure is... "Thud. Ouch." if you're lucky. If not, you don't even get to say, "Ouch."). The second is probably the standard handwave if players raise the issue and the ref doesn't want to push the point.

Proneutron's suggestion of using aerodynamic lift to make up the difference has some interesting implications for starship and starport design. On the other hand, canon deckplans generally don't include wheeled landing gear even on ships that look like they ought to be able to fly/glide in atmosphere.

 

[mike wightman]

There is a third - aerodynamic lift.

Very few aircraft have 1g thrust yet they fly just fine.

Build your ship with a streamlined hull and it is at the very least a lifting body...

 

[Grav_Moped]

...
The first is to allow over-driving the power plant and maneuver drive for brief periods.

...

The first forces some interesting role-playing decisions and drama (Each 1000-sec combat turn, roll 8+, +DM Engineering skill, failure is... "Thud. Ouch." if you're lucky. If not, you don't even get to say, "Ouch.").

Proneutron's suggestion of using aerodynamic lift to make up the difference has some interesting implications for starship and starport design. On the other hand, canon deckplans generally don't include wheeled landing gear even on ships that look like they ought to be able to fly/glide in atmosphere.

... and I'm starting to like this approach. Takeoff is by overdriving the powerplant and maneuver drive to get airborne and build airspeed, then using aerodynamic lift to gain altitude and velocity. Landing is by aerobraking and gliding, only resorting to overdriving the engines once below stall speed. One roll going up, one roll coming down.

To get 1.5G out of a 1G/Pn1 set of drives:
Each 1000-sec combat turn, roll 8+, +DM Engineering skill.

Success enables increased performance and a successful takeoff or landing.
Failure may result in a crash or crash landing. Automatic failure (roll 2) proceeds directly to "crash".

In the event of a failure, roll 8+, +DM Engineering skill to try again.
Success on this roll results in a hard landing (or unplanned hard off-field landing if taking off).
- Ship takes 1D-3 hits (-DMs Pilot, Ship Tactics, J-o-T of pilot in charge) on the Hit Locations table.
- Crew take 2D hits each (-DMs Pilot, Ship Tactics, J-o-T of pilot in charge), 4D if not in an acceleration couch.
Failure results in a crash.
- Ship takes 2D hits (-DMs Pilot, Ship Tactics, J-o-T of pilot in charge).
- Crew take 4D hits each (-DMs Pilot, Ship Tactics, J-o-T of pilot in charge), 8D if not in an acceleration couch.

Referee may modify damage based on what the ship crashes into. Hitting water or deep snow might reduce damage significantly. Hitting buildings might result in less damage to the ship itself, but... yeah.

[Note: I'm not sure if this is a fair amount of damage, or whether the rolls are appropriate. Suggestions?]