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Black Globe and The Standard Model

When a Black Globe is operating, is Gravity affected at all? It seems to affect Electro-Weak forces. How about Strong force?

It also seems to affect all Hadrons, does it affect all Leptons too? Can neutrinos escape/enter? Does the globe carry charge?
 
All good questions and my answer is...

oh dear.

It definitely blocks electromagnetic waves, I assume it stops anything with mass so neutrinos can not get through either (which makes the detection of a black globed ship trivial if you have a neutrino sensor) so strike that one - neutrinos can pass through the globe.

But what about neutrinos from within?

If the neutrinos from within can escape then the globed ship can communicate, which it is not supposed to be able to do.

I am avoiding the gravity issue.

The globed ship should follow the geodesic the local gravitational field insists it follows, but then the mass of the globed ship would be detectable because of the deformation itself produces...
 
Don't forget part of the Globe's function is that the absorbed energy is stored in the ship's Jump capacitors and/or additional capacitors, which RAW (CT High Guard at the least), allow for immediate Jump if sufficiently charged. So working backwards may help a little bit...

A.The stored energy is in a specific form/format when the capacitors present it to the Jump Drive for use. What is that form?

B.Which can be can be manipulated/converted by current Imperial technology in other areas?

C.The other ones the Black Globe does.

Does this help?
 
CT and MegaTrav both describe the black globe as absorbing "all energy"; CT goes on to say, "whatever its form". The rules describe it blocking the electromagnetic spectrum (lasers) and matter (missiles, particle beams, plasma/fusion guns). It also absorbs mesons which - given that they then transmit the weapon's full energy - must decay on contact with the globe. It also appears to absorb neutrinos, else it would be possible to track a globed ship by the power plant's energy output and it would not be invisible. The implication is it affects anything based on quarks. MT also cautions that the black globe will appear as a "hole" in space to opposing sensors unless flickered at a rate that allows the ship to leak energy equivalent to the background energy of the universe.

Now the interesting bit: the black globe affects the maneuver drive. It also appears to affect antigrav modules (else you could maneuver by mounting those instead of a maneuver drive). Antigrav modules work by pushing against the local gravity well - they do not appear to be able to cross the globe to do that. By extension, the influence of the local gravity well most likely cannot cross the black globe.

Now consider two scenarios:

Scenario 1: a ship boosts outward from the planet, turns on the black globe, and from that point forward coasts outward to the jump point, unaffected by the local gravitational field; we have violated the basic laws of physics by creating potential energy from nothing.

Scenario 2: a ship boosts outward from the planet, turns on the black globe, but the ship is still slowed by gravity - because the planet's gravitational field is acting on the black globe as if it were the ship; we have complied with the basic laws of physics (to the extent that a black globe is capable of complying with such laws).

As with all things Traveller, this creates problems. Consider: if you are in free-fall, in orbit around a planet, and you turn on your black globe, the occupants of the ship are no longer in free fall. The ship maintains an orbit, as the black globe is affected by the planet's gravity and the ship is locked into the center of the black globe by the globe projector. The occupants are not affected by the planet's gravity: they adopt a straight-line vector at the point at which the field is turned on, while the ship maintains a curving trajectory. Absent inertial compensators and grav plates, the occupants would come to rest against the outward wall of whatever compartment they were in, experiencing outward centripetal acceleration instead of floating in free fall. They have to: if the planet's gravity could reach inside the field to affect them, then the drives within the field would likewise be able to reach outside the field to affect the ship's vector.

Consider also: gravity affects time. If the interior of the globe is shielded from external gravitational effects, then it is also shielded from changes to the progression of time related to those effects. Individuals within a black globe travel slightly faster through time than those outside, when both are within a gravitational field.

This creates some head-scratching questions. Could you, for example, sling-shot a ship past a black hole at, say, a 99.??? percent flicker rate to gather data (very attenuated data, but still data) close to the black hole? Or would the energy output of matter falling into the hole overwhelm your black globe? Or, if you could find a singularity free of falling matter, would the tidal effect transmit enough energy through the black globe to blow your capacitors?
 
I stick with the black globe being affected by gravity - 'true' gravity in the sense of space time curvature rather than Traveller's gravitics technology.

So I agree with scenario 2 - a ship boosts away from a planet and then activates its black globe. It will lose momentum/kinetic energy as it travels further and further from the planet

The ship crew in free fall will continue to experience free fall when you switch on the black globe.

Gravity is a path you follow, not a force in the classical sense. They are weightless before you switch on the black globe they will continue to be weightless when you switch on the black globe.

Traveller gravitics being artificial gravitational affects are prevented from crossing the black globe boundary, which is why repulsors will not work through a black globe either.
 
Unfortunately canon is:
T5.10 said:
The Black Globe Barrier stops all electronic, magnetic, gravitic, mechanical, and inertial effects; it does not stop Psi.
The interior of a Black Globe is weightless and unaffected by exterior gravity. Typically, hulls within the field use local grav plates to produce gravity for occupants.
The interior of a Black Globe is independent of exterior inertial frames of reference. Impacts are absorbed as energy but have no direct effect on the interior.
 
MT also cautions that the black globe will appear as a "hole" in space to opposing sensors unless flickered at a rate that allows the ship to leak energy equivalent to the background energy of the universe.
:eek: Is the CMB cold spot due to an improperly set flickering Globe? :xh: What could Grandfather or Number 6 be hiding in there?:smirk:
 
Unfortunately canon is:
I would argue that the word 'gravitic' refers to Traveller's artificial gravity technology.

If the black globe is removed from local spacetime and is now effectively its own reference frame then the galaxy around the globed ship is now moving away at a velocity of 552km/sec...
 
I would argue that the word 'gravitic' refers to Traveller's artificial gravity technology.

T5 is uncompromising on this point, the expanded information summarised in the quote above above:
T5.10 said:
Energy Absorption. A globe absorbs energy which touches it, including heat, radiation, light, gravity, magnetism, and impact.
...
Gravity. Gravity is stopped by the globe barrier. The interior of the globe is unaffected by gravity.



If the black globe is removed from local spacetime and is now effectively its own reference frame then the galaxy around the globed ship is now moving away at a velocity of 552km/sec...

The earlier quote simply means that the ship in a Black Globe cannot be accelerated by any outside force, even gravity. The ship is still in this universe, takes space, and maintains its momentum.

As it is immune to gravity it can't be in orbit around anything, including the local planet, star, or galaxy, and will appear to accelerate away from objects around it as they accelerate in orbit (in non-relativistic terms).


I have no idea, of course, how the Black Globe makes the interior immune to the geometry of curved space-time (in relativistic terms).
 
Looks like being another bit of T5 I will be ignoring then. :)

I don't think T5 demonstrates an understanding of general relativity well enough to say the black globe blocks spacetime curvature, or the consequences of stating that is does.

Everything in out universe has so far been shown experimentally to follow the path dictated by a curved spacetime. But then this is a thread about the black globe and the standard model. The standard model explains the quantum nature of the very small and can not explain gravity. General relativity does a great job describing gravity but fails at the scale of the subatomic.

I will stick with the globe blocking synthetic gravitics but still following its geodesic.

I may change my mind if there is ever any experimental proof of the graviton.

[Lightbulb]Unless - I have a inkling we may be able to twist frame dragging into an explanation of the black globe but I will have to think about this a bit. We may have to delve into black hole physics to explain the black globe's effects on the standard model

or maybe start with considering how the black globe affects quantum field theory and work from there...
 
I would argue that the word 'gravitic' refers to Traveller's artificial gravity technology.

If the black globe is removed from local spacetime and is now effectively its own reference frame then the galaxy around the globed ship is now moving away at a velocity of 552km/sec...

That should be interesting if you were orbiting a planet at the wrong point when you turned it on...through the atmosphere at 552km/sec bounce off the planet surface? or skitter around to the edge when you "fall" off?

Or do you have the momentum so you just zip off tangentially as the gravity tying you to the planet/star is cut?

Disintegrator beams/nuclear dampers allow strong force to be manipulated. The canon seems to say these are blocked.

How does Psi get through? Electrical interference of a psi helmet blocks it. The surface of the globe is going to be seething with electrons bouncing about relatively uniformly.

This is kind of why I asked the original question
 
I have been up half the night thinking about this.

Back to basics - how does the BG affect the standard model.

It blocks interaction with every quantum field as we understand them.

Any field propagation (particle, wave call it by whatever is your favourite word :)) is flattened to zero at the BG boundary, and the energy shunted inside the BG generator so some sort of storage - if a BG generator has its own pocket universe energy sink, a microscopic artificial black hole would make a good energy sink too :)

The issue is the graviton and quantum gravity. If quantum gravity is a thing then the black globe can block gravity - but in doing so it is no longer part of our universe. Is the black globe some sort of stable jump portal - the globed ship is outside our universe but not quite separate from it, nor is in inside a jump dimension.
 
How does Psi get through? Electrical interference of a psi helmet blocks it. The surface of the globe is going to be seething with electrons bouncing about relatively uniformly.

This is kind of why I asked the original question
Im not a physics guy, so dont laugh. I suggest this as an analogy. After all we are playing in the Age of Sail. By analogy.

Ummm. A type of quantum entanglement? Not THE quantum entanglement they are saying they basing the next internet on but a something something acting like it. These are the ideas of
instant
distanceless
in both places at once
lets call it Psi-Quantum or PQ or mind your Ps and Qs LOL. The standard laws of this universe must be observed still to some extent. So....
Teleportation - PQ your whole body, just for an instan but you still have to pay those altitude temperature changes....
Remote sensing - PQ you eyes / ears/ whatnot or the space immediately adjoining with the space of the remote location

It's not perfect, just trying to be creative here....
 
I like it.

It doesn't go down the entanglement rabbit hole - the number of people who still think it is a means for ftl communication show that they don't understand entanglement.

Psi shields do a very specific thing - they create in interference pattern that makes it difficult to impossible for the psion to read the real brain pattern.

It has been postulated by TNE authors that psionics makes use of higher dimensions which may be linked in some way with the jump dimensions.

Since a psion is interacting with our universe via these higher dimensions then the black globe boundary doesn't affect psionics. The ship within the globe could still be psi-shielded and the individual crewmembers could be wearing psi-screens.

Now psi being the quantum field analogues of higher/other dimensions is something well worth a handwave :)
 
The issue is the graviton and quantum gravity. If quantum gravity is a thing then the black globe can block gravity - but in doing so it is no longer part of our universe. Is the black globe some sort of stable jump portal - the globed ship is outside our universe but not quite separate from it, nor is in inside a jump dimension.

One of the "Options" for the Globe-Series in T5.09 was the ability of a "Globe" to conform to the hull of a vessel that is equipped with the hull-grid jump-readiness option.

T5.09, Globes, p.378: Option Conforming Field. For a hull, pod, or chassis fitted with a Jump Grid, produces a field which conforms to the
grid (and thus the shape of the hull).
Likewise, the Standard Jump Readiness option for Jump-fields in T5 is a "spherical region" centered on the jump drive. So both Jump-fields and Globe-fields are normally spherical, but will also confrom to a properly configured hull-grid.

Also, from T5.10, p.182:
Psi And Black Globe Effects. Psi is unaffected by a Black Globe Barrier (although this requires some clarification). Psi activity outside the barrier which manipulates objects or energy finds that energy or objects stopped by the barrier. Psi can penetrate the barrier with Psi senses. Psi can manipulate matter or energy inside the Black Globe from outside (or energy and objects outside the Black Globe from inside). Psi cannot see into a Stasis Globe.

Jump. A Jump Drive mechanism can propel a hull into jump while inside a Black Globe. A Black Globe mechanism operating in Jump Space is the equivalent of a Jump Field, but because it absorbs energy, it is rapidly overwhelmed by the alien physics of Jump Space, and overloads within an hour or so. A Black Globe operating while in a Jump Field functions normally.
There appears to be at least some superficial connection between the two.
 
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That should be interesting if you were orbiting a planet at the wrong point when you turned it on...

Again, I don't have T5, but the quoted rule states the interior of the black globe is unaffected. That does not necessarily imply that the black globe itself is unaffected. I would argue that the universe interacts with the surface of the black globe as if the black globe itself was the ship.

... Ummm. A type of quantum entanglement? ...

Could explain why the capacitors can't be tapped for electrical energy. I assume everything else on the ship runs off electricity. Whatever state the black globe is inducing in the capacitors in response to its interaction with quark-based matter/energy that impacts it (and apparently in response to changes in the laws of physics being induced in some manner by disintegrators and such) is not something that can be translated directly into electrical potential, though apparently it produces heat since it can be discharged through the cooling system used by the power plant.

(That, incidentally, implies you could in fact tap it for electrical power - if you were inclined to spend on and add space for the necessary equipment and accept the usual inefficiencies implicit in turning a heat source into electricity. It's just not worth the cost and effort in a warship, where every credit and cubic meter is a contest between armor, weapons, fuel, and a power plant that delivers energy more efficiently than you could manage by tapping a hot capacitor for energy that may or may not be delivered by opposing weapons fire. Why build what amounts to a partial power plant around the capacitors to capture a small percentage of the energy gleaned from weapons fire, when that will only be available during combat and when your top priority at that point is to discharge the capacitors as quickly as possible to prevent their overloading in combat?)
 
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