Not small. Compare to the Ithaca .
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH26-E.HTM
(For some reason, there aren't too many photos on the web)
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH26-E.HTM
(For some reason, there aren't too many photos on the web)
Boarding gun
- Thread starter Todg
- Start date
MV in this application are likely 300-500 m/s, not enough to make the flechettes "fish hook" so all you get are pinholes. It will easily defeat Cloth, but not rigid plates (maybe Lvl III HD polyetheline)
I know the projectiles are about 140 g (APERS 15-20 g?). Early reports were that the recoil was about the same as a 7.62x51 rifle, which sugests a MV about 80 m/s. Since the max range is 600+ m and one shooter described "heavy recoil" it may be somewhat more. I am assuming about 100 m/s.
Or the Benelli M1014 or M1, or the Remington 1100 with speedloaders (or the full auto 7188). The British Army in Maylaysia swore by the Browning Auto Five. IIRC Clyde Barrow carried a chopped Remington model 11 (same as the Browning A5) he called his "whippet".
BTW, the USAS-12 was the Atchisson built by Daewoo of Korea.
Also the Serbu Super Shorty, used as a door buster/sidearm by special ops in Iraq.
So many obscure weapons, so little time.
The only photos I could find of the swatriplex are
here
It certainly doesn't look compact however. Maybe a 2x5 rather then 2x9 would be a little better.
At that point it reverts to a rather prosaic (at least in traveller terms) twin magazine semi-auto shotgun.
The only photos I could find of the swatriplex are
here
It certainly doesn't look compact however. Maybe a 2x5 rather then 2x9 would be a little better.
At that point it reverts to a rather prosaic (at least in traveller terms) twin magazine semi-auto shotgun.
Actually, the USAS-12 is radically different from the Atchisson, and the two only share a similar appearence. The Atchisson Assault-12 is a recoil operated gun that fires from an open bolt and uses a trigger system based on the Browning BAR (the original guns actually used an unmodified BAR trigger).
[Correction. It's blowback operated. My error.]
The USAS-12 on the other hand is a gas operated design that owes nothing more than concept to Max Atchisson's earlier gun.
I had occasion to examine both guns when I visited the ATF reference collection in Washington DC, and there are many significant differences between the two weapons.
Atchisson's original design has been resurrected as the AA-12 by Military Police Systems, although the same gun is advertised by Mid-America Recreation.
MV in this application are likely 300-500 m/s, not enough to make the flechettes "fish hook" so all you get are pinholes. It will easily defeat Cloth, but not rigid plates (maybe Lvl III HD polyetheline)
</font>[/QUOTE]Shotgun flechettes are pretty useless if they are of conventional design, due to the velocites stated. At these speeds, the wound track is directly proportional to the width of the tail, hence AAI SCMITR. And penetration is definitly reduced. Even so, flechettes show marked improvements over conventional rounds thanks to their excellent cross sectional density.
The problem in my case was being involved in too many similar weapons discussions. There is another thread about armor and small arms that also brought up flechettes.
The Benelli has a 10.5 inch barrel.
The other gun picture is actually a PAWS ZX-5 SMG. It's based on the Sterling but uses the Canadian C1 trigger group and Sten magazines. I has occasion to do a lot of consulting work for PAWS, as well as being a friend of the owner and picked this up for a very reasonable price.
PAWS made the guns in several calibers including .45 acp (ZX-7), and a couple of others. There are also suppressed version of the 9mm and .45acp. They also sold a non Title II semi auto.
A small operation, they never made a lot of guns. Mine is number 21. I suspect only a few hundred transferrable SMG swere made befor the 1986 ban.
While not as 'modern' as guns like the MP-5, it's a lot of fun to shoot. Cyclic rate is arounf 600rpm, which mean it's easy to steer the 'spray' around like a hose.
I found one for sale, at a mere $6495. Before the ban, these could be had for under $1000.
http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com/paws.html
The other gun picture is actually a PAWS ZX-5 SMG. It's based on the Sterling but uses the Canadian C1 trigger group and Sten magazines. I has occasion to do a lot of consulting work for PAWS, as well as being a friend of the owner and picked this up for a very reasonable price.
PAWS made the guns in several calibers including .45 acp (ZX-7), and a couple of others. There are also suppressed version of the 9mm and .45acp. They also sold a non Title II semi auto.
A small operation, they never made a lot of guns. Mine is number 21. I suspect only a few hundred transferrable SMG swere made befor the 1986 ban.
While not as 'modern' as guns like the MP-5, it's a lot of fun to shoot. Cyclic rate is arounf 600rpm, which mean it's easy to steer the 'spray' around like a hose.
I found one for sale, at a mere $6495. Before the ban, these could be had for under $1000.
http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com/paws.html
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Hmm, very interesting... Traveller stats for those are needed as a matter of urgency
My take
Frag-12 from a shotgun
Damage 4D6
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Close Short Medium Long Very Long
no no -1 -3 -6
-----------------------------------------------
Nothing Jack Mesh Cloth Reflec Ablat Battle
+3 +3 +1 0 +3 +1 -4</pre>[/QUOTE]
Frag-12 from a shotgun
Damage 4D6
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Close Short Medium Long Very Long
no no -1 -3 -6
-----------------------------------------------
Nothing Jack Mesh Cloth Reflec Ablat Battle
+3 +3 +1 0 +3 +1 -4</pre>[/QUOTE]
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
In CT the 20mmLAG HE round only does 4d too
The real bonus are the armour DMs.
