As I noted in the reply above the one you quoted to rebut, Gauss weapons are introduce at TL10 in FF&S.
I think you are getting hung up on semantics here. If it performs like a ACR what matter is the exact mechanism that propels the projectile?
Musings on the humble ACR
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As I noted in the reply above the one you quoted to rebut, Gauss weapons are introduce at TL10 in FF&S.
I think you are getting hung up on semantics here. If it performs like a ACR what matter is the exact mechanism that propels the projectile?
It's not quite that simple. Recoil is proportional to momentum (M.V), whereas kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity (1/2MV2); this is why a rifle doesn't tear your shoulder off when you fire it. The momentum of the rifle and the bullet are the same (Newton's second law) but the bullet has much higher kinetic energy. All other things being equal, for a given Ek lighter bullet at high velocity will generate less felt recoil than a heavier bullet.
For small arms, the highest velocity practically achievable is a little under 1,500 m/sec - take a look at the story of the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer for an example of a failed attempt at really high velocity bullets. Guns the size of a tank cannon (with longer barrels and proportionally lighter rounds) can achieve velocities of a bit over 1,500m/sec. IIRC a 120mm APFSDS round gets about 1600-1700 m/sec at the muzzle. However, this is starting to run into limits of how fast the wave front from the propellant will travel.
Technology like gauss weapons is really only interesting if you want to get velocities higher than that. The gauss rifle in LBB4 has a muzzle velocity of 1,500m/sec, which is really just on the margins of where there would be any point in using that technology.
If you wanted to achieve really high muzzle energies with low felt recoil you could use a gauss rifle (or some other mechanism) to fire a light round at high velocity. If you wanted (for example) 10kj+, you could use a powerful conventional round such as a .460 weatherby magnum (35g round at around 800m/sec) or a 3.5g round at around 2,500m/sec. The latter would have roughly equivalent muzzle energy but about 1/3 of the felt recoil.
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mike wightman
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The mass driver appears at TL9 as an artillery weapon in LBB:4, with VRF gauss guns at TL10.
And note the VRF gauss gun has to be cryogenically cooled, which is probably the real reason a man portable gauss rifle isn't introduced until TL12 and by TL13 becomes standard.
Managing the waste heat is no easy task, you need the magic technology of TL12 to be able to manage it
mike wightman
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Agree, and you need to be able to dump the waste heat without degrading your weapon.
What's the efficiency for coilguns today? I've seen quotes from 20-35% (the proposed 90% efficiency requires magical superconductors we haven't developed yet).
mike wightman
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Felt recoil is more affected by impulse - one of the advantages of the gauss rifle is you can accelerate the projectile along the entire length of the barrel rather than with an instantaneous explosive kick.
The mass driver appears at TL9 as an artillery weapon in LBB:4, with VRF gauss guns at TL10.
And note the VRF gauss gun has to be cryogenically cooled, which is probably the real reason a man portable gauss rifle isn't introduced until TL12 and by TL13 becomes standard.
Managing the waste heat is no easy task, you need the magic technology of TL12 to be able to manage it
Hum. Ok then...
To quote Mercenary "The ultimate development of the slug thrower".
Nowhere in the description following does it say TL12 is the introduction tech level of Gauss weaponry. In fact the quoted sentence implies that there was previous development. Thus coupled with following editions extensions my position is supported in the text.
But as with all things Traveller do whatever makes your group happy.
mike wightman
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You mean apart from the TL being given as 12 in the stat block at the end of the entry? Read a bit further, on page 43:
Let me drop in a bit of additional background.
CT had a bit of an uneven lineage of firearms. For the first six TLs of firearms, we see a significant progression of development. Then, at TL7 to 13, it comes to a nearly screeching halt.
Compiled from information in Book 1 and Book 4, here is what the average rifleman has at each TL:
TL2: matchlock rifle
TL3: flintlock rifle
TL4: percussion rifle
TL5: rifle*
TL6: rifle
TL7: assault rifle
TL8: assault rifle
TL9: assault rifle or laser rifle **
TL10: ACR
TL11: ACR
TL12: ACR
TL13: gauss rifle
* This should really be a single shot breech loader or three to ten shot bolt-action, but CT doesn't cover either of these.
** Book 4 makes it seem like it should be the laser rifle because reflec armor is so expensive. However, ablat armor is nearly as good and is dirt cheap (cheaper than running a raw recruit through boot camp, at any rate), so I think primary weapon should still be the assault rifle.
CT had a bit of an uneven lineage of firearms. For the first six TLs of firearms, we see a significant progression of development. Then, at TL7 to 13, it comes to a nearly screeching halt.
Compiled from information in Book 1 and Book 4, here is what the average rifleman has at each TL:
TL2: matchlock rifle
TL3: flintlock rifle
TL4: percussion rifle
TL5: rifle*
TL6: rifle
TL7: assault rifle
TL8: assault rifle
TL9: assault rifle or laser rifle **
TL10: ACR
TL11: ACR
TL12: ACR
TL13: gauss rifle
* This should really be a single shot breech loader or three to ten shot bolt-action, but CT doesn't cover either of these.
** Book 4 makes it seem like it should be the laser rifle because reflec armor is so expensive. However, ablat armor is nearly as good and is dirt cheap (cheaper than running a raw recruit through boot camp, at any rate), so I think primary weapon should still be the assault rifle.
Condottiere
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Forty Kay postulates that ye Imperial cannon fodder is equipped with an autogun or lasgun, plus flak jacket.
Either is rugged enough to withstand extreme climate changes and simple enough for recruits to use.
Either is rugged enough to withstand extreme climate changes and simple enough for recruits to use.
What I listed for TL5+ was straight from Book 4, where it lists how soldiers of each TL are armed in the 3I. Only at lower TLs did I have to make a best guess using the antique weapon section in Book 1.
Hmm, to me there is a laser revolution, that laser carbine and pistol is still more powerful then most rifles (range issues of course), just the advent of Ablat for the common soldier and Reflec for the priveleged/spec ops allows for the ACR/Gauss niche. Couple that with it's zero-G attributes and what should be a major low-power point/high-power shoot advantage, and it's going to be around in many arms lockers.
The TL13 lasers are also major arms for the foot soldier and powerful enough to overcome Reflec too, not to mention CA/BD. I would nominate those as the standard issue for the common unpowered hightech foot soldier.
There is a Striker article in one of the JTAS that goes over all the stats for those weapons, it was a beefier selection, plus bow weapons.
Mike It really appears we arguing at cross purposes here, in that you are arguing the singular listed item the Gauss Rifle is introduced at TL12. Which I don't disagree with you about.
The point I am making that there is definitely the possibility of electromagnetic propulsive devices available at earlier tech levels that have performance characteristics similar to the ACR. What I am not saying that Electromagnets are the sole solution in this broad class of weapons, but an additional option.
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I posted about the EMG concept in this section. It's essentially what the acronym stand for; an electromagnetic gun, that perhaps has M249-ish like capabilities, but with characteristics of a poor-man's Gauss weapon.
It's worth noting that Book 4 is a bit inconsistent on how it handles the gauss rifle and assault rifle.
It says the gauss rifle had limited use at TL12, was in widespread use by TL13, and is considered TL12.
OTOH, the assault rifle had limited use at TL6, was in widespread use by TL7, and is considered TL7.
The historical weapon doesn't get to count when it was first invented, but the fictional weapon does. Why?
Condottiere
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Sturmgewehr 44 would be a prototype, and Fallschirmjägergewehr 42 an early prototype.
Over 400,000 StG 44's and variants are production numbers, not prototypes.
The FG 42 was an autorifle, not an assault rifle. Although misused as an LMG, the Browning Automatic Rifle was an autorifle.
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but Ken Pick wrote the interesting "Missing Link" articles in Challenge 64, 66 and 67 about some of the quirks in CT/MT small arms evolution.
Republished here:
https://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/tech/advslug.html
https://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/consgoods/guns/advlasers.html
Republished here:
https://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/tech/advslug.html
https://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/consgoods/guns/advlasers.html
Gotta Love Mr. Pick. Though it is pretty clear that he didn't get the concept of the Snub Weapons.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Ah, sorry, you are right. Definitely a case of miscommunication. A bit like the gauss rifles into the T2300 setting, big bulky things not many shots, and not a lot more effective than the slug throwers.
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