CT Only: Book 2 and High Guard, together again

[McPerth]

Sure open that can-o-worms.

Always glad to

20 missiles in a ton?

Well, at 50 kg each missile we find 20 per ton (as mass and volume are not discriminated in CT). In MT, where they were, each missile was 0.1 kl in volume, so allowing 135 per ton (maybe too much, IMHO)

Storage only or is there a related auto loader?

I guess they could be both. Auto-loader would be tied to a specific weapon (but available for immediate use), and storage to refill auto-loaders after the ehgagement (so that less missiles would be lost with the loss of a turret).

So, your ship could have 1 dton of magazine per turret (giving them 20 more fire rounds) and more missiles in storage (be it in special storage or on the cargo hold) to refill them after the engagement...

 

[infojunky]

In fact, I'd rarely use bays, if other mounts are available for the weapon I want to mount (repulsors, to give na encample do not exist as turets, nor do HiEnergy weapons or PAs at som TLs).

Honestly I kinda am the same, PAs in lower tech hulls is the most common route.
Hence the 10 and 25ish ton bays.

And, as said before, I'd use multiple weapon batteries as a DM on the to hit roll (as auto weapon in personal combat). So Bays could have another DM based on the weapons ,and maybe a plus for being bays (assuming this gives an advantage).

And the extra chances to hit as per the Autofire rules as well?

 

[McPerth]

And the extra chances to hit as per the Autofire rules as well?

Yes, the possibility to achieve more than one hit, if you s omean (frankly it's a long time since I used pure CT rules for personal combat, so I'm not sure about those rules)

 

[infojunky]

Yes, the possibility to achieve more than one hit, if you s omean (frankly it's a long time since I used pure CT rules for personal combat, so I'm not sure about those rules)

Yeah I had to look too, as it has been a while…

 

[Spinward Flow]

Another thing one must take into account when trying to allow LBB2 to use HG weaponry is that in LBB2 (or at least in TTB, that I believe use the same rules) missiles are not free, neither in cost nor in volume, each costing KCr 5 and 50 kg.

That means, unlike in HG, that a salvo of 20 missiles would need 1 dton of storage to be reloaded, and would cost MCr 0.1...

OTOH, in HG missiles have no cost, nor need volume for reloads, being able to fire infinite missiles without regard to ammunition (a major flawl on it, IMHO)

While removal of magazines for expendable weapons (missiles, sandcasters) makes a lot of sense from a "speed up the combat system" perspective in LBB5. I certainly agree with you that removing magazines altogether was a mistake. It overly simplified the construction system at the expense of uniqueness.

Making things like missiles and sandcasters "limited ammo" weapons, while energy weapons such as lasers, plasma/fusion, repulsors, particle accelerators and mesons have "unlimited ammo" (so long as the power plant keeps running) leads to all kinds of interesting "combat endurance" questions that beg for answers. How long can you keep pounding away with missiles and sand before you run out and need to fall back on EP weapons only becomes an interesting design point. Is the ship designed for prolonged bombardments or it is designed as a skirmish raider for hit and run?

Note that the same kinds of questions can apply to civilian ships too.
High G Traders with powerful maneuver drives designed to Break Off By Acceleration from almost any combat would presumably want to have a minimal magazine capacity (because if you can't break off by acceleration, you aren't going to get away period).
Seekers and other Belter type ships might need a larger than normal magazine capacity so as to launch probes and use for larger scale demolitions work to access resource seams (as opposed to the carefully controlled mining laser for finer work).

By removing magazines from starship construction, an opportunity for unique differences in design philosophies (and logistics support) was lost.

 

[kilemall]

You know I’ve got this all worked out right?

Now then maybe not to your individual tastes or needs but yes it works.

One big difference is that it’s all in with LBB2 movement. Another is that it has one hit table with mods for the various radiation/internal hits, a bit different take on armor, above 6g particularly missles, critical hits are more LBB2 possible yet disables for engineering drama and has my peculiar bent for sometimes small ships don’t auto destruct cause they just had the backend saw off etc.

And railguns just cause.

Having difficulty with the last little bit, step down in damage on spirals. Darn tables have those small gun/medium gun/higher gun energy efficiency things baked in so wrestling with that…

 

[aramis]

Wasn't there a chart printed somewhere that basically handled "bulk firing"? Simply a percentage chart? "If you need 8+, XX% hit", something like that.

Was that in TCS?

Missiles don't miss at all in Bk 2; the question is not "will they hit?" but "Can you stop them before they hit."
Bk5 (p45) introduces a to-hit function for missiles, and the TCS page 16 chart is generic for replacing bulk rolls, not specific for missiles.

 

[robject]

TCS p16 is very nice for handling massed fire -- it's like you get batteries without the batteries.

Perhaps if Book 2 introduced armor which absorbed hits, then there'd be a benefit to massed fire.

 

[Condottiere]

That infinity taunt lets us explain why it's always mentioned now that the missile launchers aren't preloaded.

 

[mike wightman]

Missiles also have a to hit roll in Mayday.

 

[kilemall]

Key point for to hit roll on missiles- full CT includes maneuver where missiles can be avoided, and ECM programs. To me those are abstracted into the roll, with computer model adjust adding in a TL component.

 

[Grav_Moped]

sometimes small ships don’t auto destruct cause they just had the backend saw off etc.

You have to build them so the front doesn't fall off.

 

[Condottiere]

Wouldn't try an atmospheric reentry.

 

[aramis]

TCS p16 is very nice for handling massed fire -- it's like you get batteries without the batteries.

Perhaps if Book 2 introduced armor which absorbed hits, then there'd be a benefit to massed fire.

Not hard to add... Each letter is 2 spaces and MCr2.

An easy method: While armor not damaged below A, For each damage point suffered, roll 1d: on a 1 or any roll ≤ Armor Rating, damage the armor instead of the system indicated.

An alternate approach is to allow (2×Rating) lines to be protected. If the ship has a dash for value, then only one Armor 1 is used, and there is an Armor 0.

Here are a few examples: both scouts have B Armor for rating 4 (4Td) but only two hits stopped; the Type R has H armor (16 Td)

	Scout A	(ArB)	|	Scout B	(ArB)	|	Type R	(ArH)
2	A2	PP	|	A3	PP	|	A0	PP
3	A3	MD	|	A3	MD	|		MD
4	A3	JD	|	A2	JD	|	A1	JD
5		Fuel	|	A1	Fuel	|	A4	F
6	A1	Hull	|	A1	Hull	|	A2	Hull
7	A2	Hull	|	A2	Hull	|	A2	Hull
8		Hold	|	A4	Hold	|	A3	Hold
9	A4	Comp	|	A4	Comp	|	A4	Comp
10	A4	Turret	|		Turret	|		Turret
11		Turret	|		Turret	|		Turret
12	A1	Critical	|		Critical	|	A3	Critical

 

[infojunky]

TCS p16 is very nice for handling massed fire -- it's like you get batteries without the batteries.

Perhaps if Book 2 introduced armor which absorbed hits, then there'd be a benefit to massed fire.

That is not a bad idea.

Not hard to add... Each letter is 2 spaces and MCr2.

An easy method: While armor not damaged below A, For each damage point suffered, roll 1d: on a 1 or any roll ≤ Armor Rating, damage the armor instead of the system indicated.

Letter coded Armor that is ablative. I like the idea. Ships are limited to certain Armor Codes like drives?

Armor code is reduced by critical hits and/or when overcome in a turn?

 

[aramis]

That is not a bad idea.

Letter coded Armor that is ablative. I like the idea. Ships are limited to certain Armor Codes like drives?

Armor code is reduced by critical hits and/or when overcome in a turn?

Yes and Yes. I've used both modes.

My next Traveller campaign, tho', I'll be using custom hit location tables by ship. Not quite like TTNE, but inspired by.

 

[robject]

My next Traveller campaign, tho', I'll be using custom hit location tables by ship. Not quite like TTNE, but inspired by.

I remember a conversation about that on COTI many years ago. It makes sense.

 

[infojunky]

A related factoid, the Heavy Laser of the Gazelle article fame is actually the Beam Laser.

Take that another step, How would you stat out a Heavy Laser? Would treat them like energy weapons, 2 ton turret with a max of two weapons, doing 2 hits per shot.

 

[Condottiere]

Heavy implies increased damage.

The laser drill does four dice, but has trouble hitting anything not stationary, and within a klick.

 

[mike wightman]

I have been asking the question of what a heavy laser is for almost four decades now.

Was there an early iteration of the CT77 rules that had light, medium and heavy lasers rather than the single, double and triple turrets?