CT Only: Book 2 and High Guard, together again

[Spinward Flow]

I have been asking the question of what a heavy laser is for almost four decades now.

Closest you're going to get is the turrets on Annic Nova, which according to LBB DA1 are just like regular laser turrets, except they are single turrets (not dual or triple) and they get a +1 to hit.

 

[mike wightman]

My solution was to make the PA +1 to hit and cause 3 damage rolls - 2 on the regular table and 1 on the radiation damage table from the Missiles special supplement (which also is the only place which defines what a crew hit in LBB2 combat does).

 

[infojunky]

I have been asking the question of what a heavy laser is for almost four decades now.

it has been one of my questions as well. This last read of the article it occurred to me that Pulse Laser was the basic laser while the Beam Laser was the advanced laser, in that in the ‘77 rules they both only did one hit.

Was there an early iteration of the CT77 rules that had light, medium and heavy lasers rather than the single, double and triple turrets?

Not that I know, but I have been pondering the idea.

 

[robject]

I have been asking the question of what a heavy laser is for almost four decades now.

Was there an early iteration of the CT77 rules that had light, medium and heavy lasers rather than the single, double and triple turrets?

I ran into this rule just last month and thought about it.

JTAS #4, p19

The barbettes, and their particle accelerator weapons are not specifically covered in Traveller Book 2. They are a variant drawn from the material in High Guard, and grafted onto Book 2. Specifically, the barbettes are 5 tons each. The particle accelerators should be treated as heavy lasers as in Traveller Book 2, subject to an advantageous DM of +2 to hit. Damage from such hits should be skewed toward crew casualties, and electronic and computer damage if there is no fibre optic back-up present.

Since Book 2 has never had any hint of having heavy lasers -- and especially after High Guard is introduced, about which JTAS #4 specifically speaks -- then I assume that "Heavy Lasers" would have a DM+2 to hit in Book 2 terms.

It could be that a "heavy laser" is a laser that is installed in a barbette, like the PA, so you'd have something like this:

Weapon                   Tons. MCr  DM.     Attacks.   Hits Per Attack
T3                        1.   1.    -         1            -
Barbette                  5.   3.   +2         2            -

PA Gun.                   -    1.    -         -            1 (rad). Barbette.

Pulse Laser Barbette.     5.   3.5. +1         2            2.
Beam Laser Barbette.      5.   4.   +2         2.           1.
PA Barbette               5.   4.   +2         2            1.

 

[infojunky]

Ok, found a second reference to Heavy Lasers on Page 9 of the IISS Shipfiles. In this case it gives the Fusion Gun a DM of +1.

 

[infojunky]

I ran into this rule just last month and thought about it.

I rember from my early days of playing and running the game how beam laser were the big boy of lasers.

It could be that a "heavy laser" is a laser that is installed in a barbette, like the PA, so you'd have something like this:

Weapon                   Tons. MCr  DM.     Attacks.   Hits Per Attack
T3                        1.   1.    -         1            -
Barbette                  5.   3.   +2         2            -

PA Gun.                   -    1.    -         -            1 (rad). Barbette.

Pulse Laser Barbette.     5.   3.5. +1         2            2.
Beam Laser Barbette.      5.   4.   +2         2.           1.
PA Barbette               5.   4.   +2         2            1.

Assuming the Heavy Laser is a Barbette scale weapon then a Barbette should be able to mount multiples.

Note Book2 attack rolls are by weapon not by turret.

 

[infojunky]

While we are in the neighborhood we shouldn’t forget Plasma and Fusion Guns. How do they fit into the scheme of things.

 

[Condottiere]

You can fit three torpedo cradles into a barbette, and five missile launchers.

 

[whartung]

While we are in the neighborhood we shouldn’t forget Plasma and Fusion Guns.

I never liked Fusion and Plasma Guns in space combat. I always felt the ranges that Traveller uses were simply to great, no matter how much handwavium you through at it. Also, they're not a light speed weapon, which makes them even worse. I think accelerating them to even a fraction of C would be untenable.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I never liked Fusion and Plasma Guns in space combat. I always felt the ranges that Traveller uses were simply to great, no matter how much handwavium you threw at them.

Hence why they are Short Range Only weapons, not Long Range Capable in LBB5.80.

Long Range
Short Range
Docking/Contact/Boarding Range

 

[robject]

I never liked Fusion and Plasma Guns in space combat. I always felt the ranges that Traveller uses were simply to great, no matter how much handwavium you through at it. Also, they're not a light speed weapon, which makes them even worse. I think accelerating them to even a fraction of C would be untenable.

Right -- they're plainly "knife fighting" weapons.

 

[whartung]

Hence why they are Short Range Only weapons, not Long Range Capable in LBB5.80.

But what is short range? In Mayday, 1 hex is 300,000km. In BL, it's 30,000km. Book 2 doesn't use hexes, but 1G is 10,000km (using the 1000 second turn length). Since a hex in the other games is "1G for 1 turn", in theory, Mayday would use 10K hexes.

None of these, IMHO, are viable energy weapon ranges.

So, sure, if you want to pump plasma in to the ships as a last resort before boarding, be my guest. In that case, I'd also consider Autocannons.

 

[aramis]

I have been asking the question of what a heavy laser is for almost four decades now.

Was there an early iteration of the CT77 rules that had light, medium and heavy lasers rather than the single, double and triple turrets?

Try an early iteration of Bk5; GW (Jackson et al) had a bunch of HG designs in a few odd places ready to roll... I suspect that a number of 1979-1980 published designs from GW and FASA may have been done with a draft copy of HG-79.
Either that, or both of them made the same errors in HG79 designs...

 

[infojunky]

Try an early iteration of Bk5; GW (Jackson et al) had a bunch of HG designs in a few odd places ready to roll... I suspect that a number of 1979-1980 published designs from GW and FASA may have been done with a draft copy of HG-79.
Either that, or both of them made the same errors in HG79 designs...

That is pretty close to my supposition as well.

 

[infojunky]

You can fit three torpedo cradles into a barbette, and five missile launchers.

Ok, reminder we are talking about CT here.

But your point is taken.

As such Heavy Turret weapons would be 5/3rds the size of a regular turret weapons.

 

[kilemall]

Since I am largely using HG to-hit tables with LBB2 movement, I HAVE to know what is short range for plasma/fusion gun purposes and also meson gun DMs.

Thought about an overly complicated formula, but stuck with 250000 km, in keeping with the first negative DM in the CT to-hit roll (-2). I think it works pretty well.

I have a third range, Extreme, 900000km beyond which only missiles and spinal weapons hit.

 

[McPerth]

Since I am largely using HG to-hit tables with LBB2 movement, I HAVE to know what is short range for plasma/fusion gun purposes and also meson gun DMs.

If it helps you (given the similitudes amnog MT and CT HG), in MT the fusion/plasma guns cannot be fired over planetary range (50 KK) ,that is also where the lasers/missiles change their DMs.

 

[robject]

I asked Marc:

COTI has been chattering lately about the fabled, mythical "Heavy Laser" mentioned in the Gazelle article of JTAS No. 4. Apparently it's made people wonder about it for decades.

Do you remember anything about it? How would such a beast compare to a Particle Accelerator in a barbette?

And he just replied.

I know nothing about it, and I wrote the article. It was just gosh-gee whiz stuff then.

If I had to describe it,

Beam Laser= Benchmark Standard
Pulse Laser= DM -1 to Hit. If it Hits, it inflicts 2 Hits.
Plasma Gun= Max 2 per Turret. Restricted to Close Range (I need to define that in CT). Double Hits.
Fusion Gun= Max 1 per Turret. Restricted To Close Range (etc). Triple Hits.
Particle Accelerator= Max 1 per Turret Plus 10 tons of support (a Bay). Hits like a MIssile (1D6 Hits).

Heavy Laser= Max 1 per Turret Plus 10 (?5) tons of support. The Gazelle Text says +2 to Hit. Heavy implies more damage (but the text doesn't say).

Note that he didn't mention the radiation damage for the PA. I'll ask him (ha!).

 

[whulorigan]

Note that he didn't mention the radiation damage for the PA. I'll ask him (ha!).

What about:

P-Accel does 1D6 Hits -
* 1st Hit is always physical/surface (i.e. "normal") damage
* 2nd Hit (if any) is always radiation damage on radiation table
* 3rd + hits (if any) are always physical/surface (i.e. "normal") damage

 

[kilemall]

If it helps you (given the similitudes amnog MT and CT HG), in MT the fusion/plasma guns cannot be fired over planetary range (50 KK) ,that is also where the lasers/missiles change their DMs.

If I were to look for antecedents, I would tend to look to Striker, where there are hard MW numbers on what the laser and plasma/fusion batteries are. It definitely paints a picture of the meson gun detonations.