Book 2 Sandcasters

[creativehum]

I'd say no. The DM is clarly indicated as being per 25 mm of sand clouth, regardless its density.

That's a solid point. I'll consider that. It means a ship will have multiple sand clouds around it, some overlapping, some not -- and perhaps certain angles where an attacking ship can strike by passing a laser between them or only hitting one rather than multiple clouds.

 

[aramis]

I went down a bit of a rabbit hole following up on Aramis' posts. (No links were provided, so I did the best I could.) I'm not knocking Aramis' enthusiasm. I'm only swinging it back around to a simple table used in an RPG game.

Whether or not the technologies referenced above pan out (and even accepting claims by the Chinese government that they are experimenting with the technology in orbit) in the context of the Classic Traveller TL table it is clear that Earth 2017 does not have the "technological expertise, and thus the capabilities of local industry" to manufacture items with these technologies. And that is what matters for the TL table. So at this point we're still at TL 7.

I understand there is a whole sub-theme in later Traveller editions of when technology might be about to jump from one TL to the next. I'm only addressing the TL table as it is addressed in CT books.

Given that ablat technology shows up at TL 9 (and is required for sand clouds) the technology and production of sandcasters as a defense against laser weapons is still two ticks up the scale from our technology today.

There are more important determinants than Gravitics and Jump Drive - power production, for one, power storage, and biotech... both of which we're firmly TL8, and have been for a decade now. And that's using the Striker measures.

That we lag in a few areas (Gravitics and Drives) doesn't make us not TL 8; it makes us merely deficient in that area.


Our weapons are largely TL 8, and we do have combat chem lasers capable of a couple KM in atmosphere - well within the Striker TL 8 levels. On the bulk, we're TL 8.

 

[creativehum]

There are more important determinants than Gravitics and Jump Drive - power production, for one, power storage, and biotech... both of which we're firmly TL8, and have been for a decade now. And that's using the Striker measures.

Fair enough. I was using Traveller Book 3 as my reference -- where we lag laser carbines, grav technology, fusion power, and . (I made no mention of Drive Tech, which arrives at TL 9. Meanwhile TTB adds in Weather Comtrol at TL 8.)

As for power storage and biotech, I'll take your word for it. I'm sure as we expand the available texts we can find the cases that support either point of view.

Working from Book 3, I'm looking at our current world as TL 7. But your interpretation is of course perfect for the game you want to run using the materials you are referencing.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

There are more important determinants than Gravitics and Jump Drive - power production, for one, power storage, and biotech... both of which we're firmly TL8, and have been for a decade now. And that's using the Striker measures.

That we lag in a few areas (Gravitics and Drives) doesn't make us not TL 8; it makes us merely deficient in that area.


Our weapons are largely TL 8, and we do have combat chem lasers capable of a couple KM in atmosphere - well within the Striker TL 8 levels. On the bulk, we're TL 8.

It's not only fusion power and agrav that we lack to be TL8.
Personal laser weapons?
Laser tanks?
Particle Accelerator weapons?
Artificial organs?
Artificial gills?
Slow drug?
Weather Control?

The bright spot is computer tech and related fields, I believe.

 

[aramis]

It's not only fusion power and agrav that we lack to be TL8.
Personal laser weapons?
Laser tanks?
Particle Accelerator weapons?
Artificial organs?
Artificial gills?
Slow drug?
Weather Control?

The bright spot is computer tech and related fields, I believe.

PAW's are quite doable now. Lacking a space combat need, however.
Laser Tanks - Detroit built one. Chem-laser. Army didn't buy it.

Artificial organs - currently artificial kidneys are being done in lab animals. Well, lab grown organs, rather than proper cybernetics.

Artificial gills were theorized in the 1970's, and while not entirely practical now, one is trying to come to market. The thing is likely to have about a 10 minute dive time on internal power, assuming it's not a total fraud. (only slightly better than holding one's breath.) Catalytic separation is known to be doable: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-...-that-splits-water-clean-oxygen-hydrogen-247/


We're several TL's ahead on computers My new cell phone has as much computational power as a cray - 64-bit, 8 core, 1.4 GHz ... and the same operating memory, 1 Gigaword, as the Cray 1, the axiomatic model 1. It draws under 1/1000 the power, has a graphics capability, and a number of other features... it's the TL12 pocket computer, at 1/10 the mass.

When looking at the tables, remember - it was a handful of army officers.

 

[whartung]

CT missiles are essentially doing what sidewinder (AIM-9 series) do - close up and then shotgun blast the target. UGLY.

Perhaps, but an AIM-9 doesn't have to penetrate 33cm of armor, it simply has to poke holes in a thin skinned, aerodynamic form and let the physics of the situation play out.

 

[aramis]

Perhaps, but an AIM-9 doesn't have to penetrate 33cm of armor, it simply has to poke holes in a thin skinned, aerodynamic form and let the physics of the situation play out.

It also only has 44 G-Seconds, vs the Traveller missile's 500 to 3000....

 

[kilemall]

5G5 means that it can boost by 5G for 5 turns.

That means a 6G ship can outrun the missiles...

Assuming the target 6G ship is headed away from the missile and not closing.

About all a 6G ship closing gets is to reduce the kinetic damage and maybe get an extra turn before impact, OR possibly maneuver out of the missile's to-hit cone.

 

[kilemall]

That's a solid point. I'll consider that. It means a ship will have multiple sand clouds around it, some overlapping, some not -- and perhaps certain angles where an attacking ship can strike by passing a laser between them or only hitting one rather than multiple clouds.

Exactly, it's basically laying smoke for lasers.

So assuming one sandcaster per ACS, a typical fitting as most people like lasers and missiles, the pattern would likely be the rear quadrant per 3 canister load.

As a ref I would also be sure to impose the DMs on any outbound fire, and any accel/decel risks taking the sand ship to be out of cover, TANSTAAFL.

Another key question to answer- should the Sand DM apply to the protected ship's anti-missile shots?

A big way to deal with Sand would be multiple ships attacking from multiple compass points. Hence another reason for raiders and pirates to attack in a swarm, and for fighters to have a role.

On the other hand, an escort heavily equipped with multiple casters might be able to lay down shielding for a convoy of ships all a few km from the casting ship, and on the same course and vee.

 

[kilemall]

It also only has 44 G-Seconds, vs the Traveller missile's 500 to 3000....

High tech, baby.

A criticism of SS3 that bothers me is no effective difference in missile performance between TLs, beyond options that become available in warheads and homing packages.

I suppose a 1G1 missile only at TL8 vs some 12G12 monster at TL15 would be really rough.

But there are similar differences between laser carbines and FGMPs, differentiated missiles can be handled with similar cost/availability/legality mechanisms.

HG does seem to indicate a TL progression in ECM with the computer model thing.

 

[kilemall]

just for completeness, my sandcaster thread link-

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=34751

 

[Selandia]

Exactly, it's basically laying smoke for lasers.

....
As a ref I would also be sure to impose the DMs on any outbound fire, and any accel/decel risks taking the sand ship to be out of cover, TANSTAAFL.

Another key question to answer- should the Sand DM apply to the protected ship's anti-missile shots?
...
On the other hand, an escort heavily equipped with multiple casters might be able to lay down shielding for a convoy of ships all a few km from the casting ship, and on the same course and vee.

I basically play "sand" as Shaff. The low tech being the wwii "window". The point is not to stop high power laser (or missile )with a grain of sand per Cubic M but to interfere with targetting.

Two options
a) it create an alternative signature, so one shot (one or more canister) equal one signature so DM 1. If their Anti ECM can read the decoy, there is no benefit in having 10 decoys. Therre is no défensive mod because you know your decoy.

However, the 25 mm blob point to b),

b) it tries to hide a pea in a ping-pong ball (not always at the center, the caster does not merely "drop" the canister, it shoot it excentric)

At that point the limited DM is a reflection of the fact that you do not want to -and you are right- blind yourself. However, more sand should be more DM if thickness (as ablative armor) is relevant, as in HG. If that is shaff, you can factor it out when shooting.

Have fun

Selandia