Book 3: Scouts

[Psion]

Like chargen. Overall, it made more sense and was easier to follow than the High Guard rules. The events are interesting, but some may go into a little too much detail.

Like the ships--I think the survey rider has some interesting possibilities.

System generation seems well conceived, but I probably won't use it. (I use some combination of MT/Scouts/GT first in).

Some fluff is a little pointless.

My OTU snob "grrr" moment: page 87. Aslan are NOT an uplifted species.

 

[Garyius2003]

Okay, so I cranked the book open and started reading it. Towards the middle of the book the third text line smearing was less bad. Still not happy about it, I likely will return it.

Thoughts:

1. The deck plans are cruddy looking except the 150 ton scout. Better to have just some plans done well and looking nice.

2. Why is the 150 ton scout only have a J-2 drive but most of the modules are set up for J-2x2?

3. There is no chance of making it for retirement out of the scouts.

4. If you try for multiple terms in the scouts you won’t have to worry about former scout contracts, the PC will be a hunted man based on the two bad things that happen to him each term.

5. What’s up with all the internal combustion engine stuff?

6. Why a drone just for contact, and no variants for exploring or sampling?

7. I was feeling really bad about that force barrier, until the very last line. That would have been the end of the 3I framework.

8. There must be thousands of those 50 ton things floating around, since every scout ship except the scout has way too many of them.

 

[Whipsnade]

7. I was feeling really bad about that force barrier, until the very last line. That would have been the end of the 3I framework.

Garyius2003,

Would you care to further explain the part I quoted above?

And would anyone like to further explain MgT's "uplifted" Aslan nonsense?


Regards,
Bill

 

[Garyius2003]

Garyius2003,

Would you care to further explain the part I quoted above?

And would anyone like to further explain MgT's "uplifted" Aslan nonsense?


Regards,
Bill

Sure. Right after the ships is an equipment section. I was skimming it and ran across a force barrier. The way it is laid out, half is on one page and half is on the following (must turn page). The barrier is listed in its first line as TL15.

The barrier in its basic form is a force field that can form a cage or barrier, with more cost equaling a bigger field area. In its basic form it takes (I think I recall) 6D6 of bullet or energy weapon to breach. Upgrades are possible. The power source and emitter can be vehicle mounted.

I was just starting to think that the 3I was changed to its core, when I read the very last line. That says in the 3I the barrier is TL18.

 

[spinwardpirate]

And would anyone like to further explain MgT's "uplifted" Aslan nonsense?

On page 87, a sidebar on Sophontological Categorisation, includes under the category Biological Intelligences, a classification "Provolves (uplifted races such as Vagr [sic] and Aslan)."
:nonono:

 

[captainjack]

2. Why is the 150 ton scout only have a J-2 drive but most of the modules are set up for J-2x2?

It's designed for tech 10, and is capable of two consecutive jumps with those modules, one without. A modular rifter design in older terms.

8. There must be thousands of those 50 ton things floating around, since every scout ship except the scout has way too many of them.

?

 

[captainjack]

On page 87, a sidebar on Sophontological Categorisation, includes under the category Biological Intelligences, a classification "Provolves (uplifted races such as Vagr [sic] and Aslan)."
:nonono:

Okay, that's an oopsie, no doubt.

 

[Garyius2003]

8. There must be thousands of those 50 ton things floating around, since every scout ship except the scout has way too many of them.



?

The 50 ton survey rider.


'I'm sorry dave, I can't allow that'

 

[Jame]

I sent my copies of Merc and HG in for the exchange thing, requesting Scouts for my free book.

Not bad, as it has some good expansion for the Scout chargen (although some of the career options should be rewritten), and some interesting equipment (but, as always, I really really dislike how high-TL some of the stuff such as ManPacs is - it ought to be TL-10 or so). And I like the base design sequence, but I think (a.) that it needs some expansion of base options, such as listing prices and such for barracks/landing fields/hangars and etc. and (b.) it needs some suggestions for crew size for bases. But ... as with the rest of the MGT stuff I have (save for TMB), it's not quite fulfilling. I'm glad I got it for the price of postage (the US Post Office let me send it for about $2 US because I was sending books! Yay! ).

 

[captainjack]

The 50 ton survey rider.


'I'm sorry dave, I can't allow that'

Okay, I still don't get your point.

 

[Garyius2003]

All of the sudden the scout service has these half size explorer pods buzzing around systems.

Pretty much, if the scout ship in system is larger than 150 tons there will be 2 or six of these things buzzing around. Same with any system with a scout base.

 

[Psion]

All of the sudden the scout service has these half size explorer pods buzzing around systems.

Pretty much, if the scout ship in system is larger than 150 tons there will be 2 or six of these things buzzing around. Same with any system with a scout base.

Is this a bad thing?

I think the "classic vehicle selection" is just a baseline and couldn't possibly represent every vehicle you might run into. I always imagined that any active system would have a myriad of craft.

In a way, the concept reminds me a little bit of Alastair Reynold's Absolution Gap.

 

[Whipsnade]

Is this a bad thing?

Psion,

Yes.

I think the "classic vehicle selection" is just a baseline and couldn't possibly represent every vehicle you might run into. I always imagined that any active system would have a myriad of craft.

As described by MgT these 50dTon pods are part of the baseline. They're schlepped anywhere and everywhere by MgT's version of the IISS, just like that other baseline craft the 50dTon modular cutter.

So the question now becomes: If they're so ubiquitous why haven't we seen them before?

This isn't the case of some previously unseen IISS survey sloop or a 5000dTon passenger liner suddenly appearing, this is akin to a brand new type of jump1, 200dTon, free trader suddenly appearing alongside of the baseline Beowulf with the "explanation' that it's been there all along.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Okay, that's an oopsie, no doubt.

Captain Jack,

Oopise? I've got another term for it.

It's matter of errata but, given the attitude Mongoose has exhibited in the past when mistakes were pointed out, I wouldn't count on it being fixed any time soon.


Regards,
Bill

 

[rancke]

As described by MgT these 50dTon pods are part of the baseline. They're schlepped anywhere and everywhere by MgT's version of the IISS, just like that other baseline craft the 50dTon modular cutter.

So the question now becomes: If they're so ubiquitous why haven't we seen them before?

This isn't the case of some previously unseen IISS survey sloop or a 5000dTon passenger liner suddenly appearing, this is akin to a brand new type of jump1, 200dTon, free trader suddenly appearing alongside of the baseline Beowulf with the "explanation' that it's been there all along.

I can understand why a major addition to an organization that has been so well documented in previous versions as the IISS might be a problem, but I strongly disagree with the example used in the analogy. I'm convinced that the ubiquity of Beowulfs and Maravas is due to nothing more than a variant of confirmation bias. A Traveller writer wants to write an adventure involving a Free Trader. Does he use a Beowulf, for which stats and deckplans are readily available, or does he spend precious wordage on detailing a different class of free trader? I think there must be dozens, if not hundreds, of different 200T jump-1 ship classes out there. There's the ones with no passenger cabins at all, and the ones with nothing but passenger cabins to name but two groups.


Hans

 

[coliver988]

While I don't have Scouts, I can see Mongoose wanting to add something to the Traveller universe. They get complaints if they stick to the original (there's nothing new here, why buy it?) and complaints if they change things (why change what was working?). As to the potential ubiquity of the new pod never being there before: so? It's an expansion on the existing vehicle baseline if I'm understanding the posts. Positing an 1100+ year old empire, even if a very reactionary empire, is bound to have a variety of standard ships that have yet to be described in any Traveller source. And, as with any gaming supplement, you can use it, abuse it, or ignore it. Whatever. At least it presents another idea that may have use.

So I agree with Hans.

Now, I have heard some other things about the book which puts me right in the middle of buying & not buying, sadly.

 

[Psion]

So the question now becomes: If they're so ubiquitous why haven't we seen them before?

That they are now ubiquitous is your assumption.

They may be relatively common, but they may also be relatively new. They still may not have anywhere near the presence of the truly ubiquitous type S, that has had variants (and surplus beaters) around for half the age of the Imperium.

 

[Whipsnade]

I can understand why a major addition to an organization that has been so well documented in previous versions as the IISS might be a problem, but I strongly disagree with the example used in the analogy. (snip) I think there must be dozens, if not hundreds, of different 200T jump-1 ship classes out there. There's the ones with no passenger cabins at all, and the ones with nothing but passenger cabins to name but two groups.

Hans,

I happen to agree with you about the numbers of different tramp trader designs across the Third Imperium. I also happen to think that the same forces that cause most writers to use and re-use the Beowulf in a meta-game sense also cause most tramp traders to use the Beowulf in an in-game sense.

In the case of jump1, 200dTon, tramp traders the Beowulf is the standard design ubiquitous across the Imperium and the other designs - despite occurring in large numbers - are limited in time, space, and/or utility.

My Beowulf analogy wasn't analogous enough for Mongoose's 50dTon survey pods however as those survey pods are supposedly bought and operated by an imperium-wide organization which has a vital need for standardization.

Because the IISS purchases and operates scout/couriers, x-boats, tenders, Donosevs, and ghu knows what else from the Rim the the Marches, it would also purchase and operate 50dTon survey pods from the Rim to the Marches. Yet we've never seen them before.

MgT says they're routinely aboard their "stretched" scout/couriers and that the IISS uses them extensively. Yet we've never seen them before now.

The pods are useful enough to replace the modular cutter aboard the Donosev and the pods are numerous enough for Donosevs to be assigned them. Yet we've never seen them before.

Does that seem plausible to you?

Actually the 50dTon survey pod already exists in canon. It's called the modular cutter with a survey module. MgT's survey pod is thus unnecessary.

Still not convinced? Let me give you another example of a recent addition to baseline canon which we were told had existed all this time without being seen before:

Viscounts.

What was your reaction to the inclusion of viscounts in G:Humaniti?


Regards,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

While I don't have Scouts, I can see Mongoose wanting to add something to the Traveller universe.

Coliver988,

I can understand that too.

What I don't understand is adding something and saying It's been used all over, and it replicates the job already being done by the modular cutter, but you just haven't seen it in the last thirty years.

Now, as Psion suggested, if the survey pods are relatively new addition to the IISS inventory or had been tested in some region and are now being used imperium-wide I'd feel much better than simply being told They've been there all the time, despite the fact all they do is duplicate one of the modular cutter's many jobs. We just didn't bother to tell you chumps, okay?.

It's an expansion on the existing vehicle baseline if I'm understanding the posts.

That's another reason why it,s wrong. It doesn't expand the baseline because all it does is duplicate a job already performed by the modular cutter. If they wanted to expand the baseline, they should have done what G:Traveller and create new ships for the baseline that performed different jobs; i.e. the jump6 courier and the large IISS survey cruiser.

There are literally dozens of empty job niches along the IISS ship baseline that cold be filled, but all MgT chose to do was duplicate a pre-existing small craft.

There's new and then there's new. The survey pod's label may be new, but the survey pod's size and job are most certainly not.

And, as with any gaming supplement, you can use it, abuse it, or ignore it. Whatever. At least it presents another idea that may have use.

Agreed, and that's why you should buy MgT:Scouts despite your hesitations over the matter. The number of goofs, gaffes, and outright mistakes won't seriously effect what you can plunder from the supplement.

I'll be buying it and throwing the survey pod out of MTU. Keep the baby, ditch the bathwater.


Regards,
Bill

 

[aramis]

Re Viscounts
They'd existed IMTU for some time... another name for the Marquis. Then again, that's because MT has count above Marquis in the Imperial Encyclopedia. (IE, p. 15. PM, p. 22.)
But then, IMTU, there are also Baronets (same source), Knights Commander and Knights Grand Commander (house rules), Grand Dukes, Grand Counts, (based upon other MT sources, mostly given titles), 2 different admiralty rank systems in use (Comm/RAdm/VAdm/Adm/FAdm vs Comm/FAdm/SSAdm/SecAdm/GAdm) and other canon inconsistencies.

And we know that the scout used in Ley isn't the Sulieman... different plans in T20! We do know the Sulieman is the standard for the Marches (Supp 7)...

But the IISS isn't necessarily standardized; it could, like the canon IN, be variant sector by sector or even domain by domain.