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Brainstorming Boughene/Regina (SM 1904)

Which, in crossing the streams a bit, means that the "day in the life" PC party is going to get an offer to do the (stars only know how long overdue!) annual overhaul on Annic Nova for free. General Products really wants a look at that technology! Mind you, in the end they won't get a whole lot out of it, except maybe giving Efate the ability to build "Early Collector-1" drives at some point. But it'd be worth it to them.
Ironically enough ... Boughene might be the best location in the Regina subsector to perform annual overhaul maintenance on the Annic Nova. Efate has "too much traffic" (read: prying eyes) moving through the system ... and there has been those ongoing skirmishes with the Ine Givar that keep flaring up again from time to time.

Pixie would be another location ... except there's next to no one there who could do the work (population code: 1) and the risk of the Imperial Navy deciding to simply confiscate/impound the ship (as a possible artifact technology item) would be rather high.

Boughene, on the other hand ... so long as you pay off all the right people (read: oligarchs), odds are better than average of being able to complete an annual maintenance overhaul "unmolested" after which you'll get your ship back in working order. The shipyard will (of course) be able to obtain a frightening amount of info about the Annic Nova (and in true dark web fashion may even sell that info onwards to interested parties) ... but that's a different problem.
 
Boughene, on the other hand ... so long as you pay off all the right people (read: oligarchs), odds are better than average of being able to complete an annual maintenance overhaul "unmolested" after which you'll get your ship back in working order. The shipyard will (of course) be able to obtain a frightening amount of info about the Annic Nova (and in true dark web fashion may even sell that info onwards to interested parties) ... but that's a different problem.
General Products' legacy of incompetence is actually an asset here. Their R&D is working to get back to full TL-13 competence and maybe get a hint of TL-14. The ship is TL-15 (it doesn't need to be any higher than that, so it probably isn't). They won't be capable of understanding it well enough to make use of what they learn! And the Navy contractors from Efate will still be spooked by the "plague ship," so they won't be quite as helpful as hoped. GP will try to keep whatever they do learn as trade secrets rather than selling it onward.

Also, it's going to be a serious chore to get it in from, and back out to, the gas giant's Jump Limit while limited to 0.1G. They won't do a function check of the drives when they're done.
 
Also, it's going to be a serious chore to get it in from, and back out to, the gas giant's Jump Limit while limited to 0.1G.
Interplanetary charter for a "tow" would do the trick.
If there are any of my 5-6G courier ship designs are flying around the Boughene system (not impossible, all things considered), one of them could be contracted to provide a maneuver tug service relatively easily (and relatively cheaply too!). If Boughene Station keeps one or two copies of my 5-6G courier ships on standby for Search & Rescue within 15.5 AU of Boughene Station ... and there aren't any distress calls ... a contract for a tow of the Annic Nova outside the jump shadow at 1-2G ought to be possible within "a day or so" depending on details.

In other words, there are workarounds to the 0.1G limitation of the Annic Nova herself.
 
Interplanetary charter for a "tow" would do the trick.
If there are any of my 5-6G courier ship designs are flying around the Boughene system (not impossible, all things considered), one of them could be contracted to provide a maneuver tug service relatively easily (and relatively cheaply too!). If Boughene Station keeps one or two copies of my 5-6G courier ships on standby for Search & Rescue within 15.5 AU of Boughene Station ... and there aren't any distress calls ... a contract for a tow of the Annic Nova outside the jump shadow at 1-2G ought to be possible within "a day or so" depending on details.

In other words, there are workarounds to the 0.1G limitation of the Annic Nova herself.
The constraint isn't the ship's thrust/volume ratio, it's the fragile Collector canopy.

With a 5G, 40Td Pinnace pushing from the cargo-bay dock, it's stated as being capable of 0.1G. The Pinnace generates 200 GxTd thrust, and should be able to produce 0.33G acceleration for the ship. The 0.1G limit indicates that the constraint is structural limits.

It'd need to be carried inside something with gravity-control and inertial damping in its cargo bay. Without the Pinnaces and allowing zero clearance for the canopy (but you really don't want it bumping into anything!), it occupies a "box" 61m long, 32m tall, and 23m wide, for a total of 44,896m^3 (3,326Td).
 
Um ... what's the starship equivalent to a "tow rope" in which you pull the Annic Nova by the stern ...?
LOL

Maybe there's a maneuver-drive analog to the "jump net" used by the Jump Ship in Supp. 9 that generates a 0G, inertially-compensated field within itself?

As I said, the problem isn't that you can't push the ship at over a fraction of a G. The problem is that if you do, you'll shred the collector canopy.

I suppose you could have the canopy stowed in an enclosed, gravity-controlled bay when retracted -- I've even written up a ship that did exactly that using the small craft bay rules. Annic Nova didn't do that.
 
The problem is that if you do, you'll shred the collector canopy.

This requires a citation from LBB DA1 ... chapter and verse.
"If you want something done, you've got to do it yourself ..."

{ dives head first into LBB DA1 for answers }

Search of LBB DA1 complete.
No references to G limits of the ship structure found.

The thrust that can be applied by the Pinnaces to maneuver the ship is limited, causing the 0.1G limit there, but that's because of the scale difference between the Pinnaces and the Annic Nova itself. I was unable to find anything implying that the Annic Nova canopy is incapable of withstanding acceleration stresses (whether open or closed).
 
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This requires a citation from LBB DA1 ... chapter and verse.
"If you want something done, you've got to do it yourself ..."

{ dives head first into LBB DA1 for answers }

Search of LBB DA1 complete.
No references to G limits of the ship structure found.

The thrust that can be applied by the Pinnaces to maneuver the ship is limited, causing the 0.1G limit there, but that's because of the scale difference between the Pinnaces and the Annic Nova itself. I was unable to find anything implying that the Annic Nova canopy is incapable of withstanding acceleration stresses (whether open or closed).
They're limited (in duration, and presumably thrust level) in what they can do when on the docking pylons to some unknown amount less than 0.1G total.

Long duration propulsion requires moving a pinnace to the cargo-bay docking port, where presumably there aren't the same problems. (Best guess is that the ship had three of them to start with.)

The original design was under '77 rules, which means the maneuver drives were reaction engines so presumably A=F/M applies (restatement of F=MA). Thus, 200G-Tons should have provided 0.33G, yet it didn't.

And in terms of acceleration stresses: The canopy is a kilometer across when deployed.
 
The original design was under '77 rules
LBB2.77 is remarkably ill suited to this kind of computation.

Long duration propulsion requires moving a pinnace to the cargo-bay docking port
Mainly a factor of applying thrust along a vector closer to the keel/center of gravity so you aren't wasting most of your thrust trying to prevent an uncontrolled spin due to torque.

they intended the maneuver drives to be reaction engines
Yes, yes ... stupid rockets that run out of (L-Hyd) gas.

Thus, 200G-Tons should have provided 0.33G, yet it didn't.
It did ... you were just limited to 0.1G of total thrust for everything (Pinnaces plus Annic Nova).

And in terms of acceleration stresses: its a kilometer across when deployed.
So? Fold it and THEN maneuver.
This shouldn't (have to) be rocket science ...
 
LBB2.77 is remarkably ill suited to this kind of computation.
It was quite well suited to it (see the entire vector-based space combat system).
Mainly a factor of applying thrust along a vector closer to the keel/center of gravity so you aren't wasting most of your thrust trying to prevent an uncontrolled spin due to torque.
Moot point. The pinnaces rotate in pitch on their docking connectors -- that's how they provide orientation control. Line them up with the center of mass (angled slightly "down") and they won't apply torque. Ship "pops a wheelie" as it goes...
Yes, yes ... stupid rockets that run out of (L-Hyd) gas.
The writeup describes the fuel limits. Typical of '77 small craft, they don't burn for long.

My point there is that they're not post-'77, which means they weren't built with High Guard. F=M/A applies here rather than the HG percentage-based calculations.

As a side note, HG's M-drive formula gets weird for fractional Gs. That formula is: M-drive's % of tonnage = 3*(Gs-1) percent, and starts yeilding negative percentages for values of G below 1/3G.
It did ... you were just limited to 0.1G of total thrust for everything (Pinnaces plus Annic Nova).
Nope. Each pinnace can produce 200G-tons thrust, but (presumably) the structural limitations of the docking pylons limit how hard they can push from there to something less than 100G-tons each. If that wasn't the limit, there'd be no need to move one to the cargo bay docking port for sustained acceleration.

A pinnace docked to the cargo bay can only apply enough thrust to provide 0.1G acceleration. As noted, the 200G-tons thrust (40Td at 5G) should provide the whole ship 1/3g acceleration, and it's the spot on the ship from where it's supposed to do that. Again, it can't do that -- not because the drive can't do it, nor because the docking port can't handle the load, but because the ship (and the canopy is the weak point) is too fragile to be pushed any harder than that.
So? Fold it and THEN maneuver.
This shouldn't (have to) be rocket science ...
0.1G is all it can take when folded. It can't take ANY acceleration when deployed.
 
Annic Nova ... the OTHER Kinunir starship of early CT. :censored:
Kinunir was an attempt at using HG '77 in a small-ship (LBB2) universe. The HG '80 changes (mostly concerning Agility) made it non-viable as a combatant, and by that point they realized HG meant they had a large-ship universe whether they wanted one or not.

Azhanti High Lighting had a similar problem -- designed under HG '77, it's a non-viable combatant under HG '80. At least it started out as a "big ship"...

Annic Nova is an artifact of the 1977 rules and some literary license in invoking alien tech for the sake of weirdness, that probably wasn't developed beyond what was essential for the JTAS scenario and the later Double Adventure. The loose threads and rules-lawyering about what Collector Drives could and couldn't do came later.
 
LBB2.77 is remarkably ill suited to this kind of computation.
CT in general is unsuitable for this kind of analysis.

We know that starships generally can operate rather deep.
A12 notes commercial vessels can withstand a whopping 1000 atm pressure, military to 2000 atm, and SDBs 3000 atm.
They also can, per the design systems, handle 6G without added equipment (save what's in the Maneuver Drive). And that canonically includes inertial compensation. The Annic Nova itself mounts no maneuver drive.

If one makes the assumption that Inertial Compensation is part of the MD, then the pinnaces cannot compensate the internals... Put a proper MD in in there, with that assumption, and she should be able to do rating with the canopy folded... but that needs a proper yard, and will reveal it as alien (if not lower-case-a ancient) tech, involve government oversight, and probably wind up losing it in Admiralty prize court... Compensated, but confiscated none-the-less.
 
Put a proper MD in in there, with that assumption, and she should be able to do rating with the canopy folded... but that needs a proper yard, and will reveal it as alien (if not lower-case-a ancient) tech, involve government oversight, and probably wind up losing it in Admiralty prize court... Compensated, but confiscated none-the-less.
Efate and Pixie both have naval bases, so the opportunity for an Admiralty prize court impounding/confiscating the Annic Nova as a relic for "serious study" is indeed a definite threat.

Boughene has a scout base but no naval base, so the threat of an Admiralty prize court intervention is reduced (not eliminated, just reduced). So once again, Boughene would be the "safest" place in the Regina subsector to take the Annic Nova into drydock for a (presumably long overdue) maintenance overhaul ... let alone a straight up retrofit of adding a maneuver drive to the main ship itself (even a 1G maneuver drive).

Mind you, a 1G rated maneuver-D standard drive from LBB2.77 would displace 7 tons and necessitate the installation of a power plant-D standard drive which displaces 13 tons and need 10 tons of L-Hyd fuel and require only TL=9 drives be retrofitted to the design (so easy to obtain at Boughene). Total tonnage cost would be 30 tons (D drives) ... which the Annic Nova certainly has sufficient cargo hold space to accommodate ... and cost MCr48 for the standard maneuver and power plant drives.

So the type A starport shipyard at Boughene ought to be capable of doing the work, provided there is funding made available to retrofit the ship like that. Services of a Naval Architect will almost certainly be needed before work on the modifications can begin, so you're probably looking at something in the vicinity of MCr51-52 being needed for all the various and sundry (including bribes to the right people and oligarchs) in order to avoid any Imperial entanglements. 🤫
 
Put a proper MD in in there, with that assumption, and she should be able to do rating with the canopy folded... but that needs a proper yard, and will reveal it as alien (if not lower-case-a ancient) tech, involve government oversight, and probably wind up losing it in Admiralty prize court... Compensated, but confiscated none-the-less.
LBB2 doesn't allow changing the size of the drive bay. (See also the Standard Hulls game mechanic.)
It'd also require a power plant, and would have even under '77 rules (but that's implied by "a proper MD" so.)
EDIT: as noted by SF -- posts crossed there.

There's one minor "catch" that might justify a small craft with 200Td-Gs of thrust only yielding 0.1G for 600Td instead of 1/3G: the manuever fuel burn rate for starships/non-starships in '77, which works out to about 3x the fuel burn rate for small craft. Mind you, that burn rate was wildly innumerate since it completely disregarded craft/vessel tonnage...

I'm still convinced that the acceleration constraint is due to the fragility of the Collector canopy rather than propulsion inefficiency.

The average thickness of the canopy (150Td assumed*, 1km diameter stated) is 2.58mm if I did the math right. The support arms and base structure are included in that average. . .




* Assumes entire collector drive takes volume similar to jump fuel for J3+J2, and the canopy comprises half the Collector's volume.
 
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The average thickness of the canopy (150Td assumed, 1km diameter stated) is 2.58mm if I did the math right. The support arms and base structure are included in that average. . .
This also assumes it folds into itself with zero wasted space between layers. So, yeah, it's likely quite delicate.



On the other hand, since the ship has artificial gravity, one might posit that the support arms include artificial gravity generators and inertial damping to ensure that once folded, the volume occupied by the folded canopy is kept in 0G and inertially damped. Wasn't mentioned in the text, though.

The other thing is that if the ship had the hypothesized missing third pinnace*, all three together could push it at no more than 0.2G. The one in the cargo bay docking port provides 0.1G, while the ones on the docking pylons apply up to 0.1G combined. (If two pinnaces could provide more than 0.05G thrust each from the pylon mounts, then they could be operated at half-throttle (some amount over 0.05G each) in place for more than 0.1G combined, and thereby spare the complication of having to relocate one of them to the cargo bay port for "long term maneuvering".)


*that is, the one in which the other 4+ crew members departed the ship, somewhere, after people started succumbing to the primary threat in DA1.
 
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but that needs a proper yard, and will reveal it as alien (if not lower-case-a ancient) tech, involve government oversight, and probably wind up losing it in Admiralty prize court... Compensated, but confiscated none-the-less.
My handwave for that is that the first time it was properly inspected (for registration purposes), the inspectors were themselves only TL-13 (on Efate/Regina) and didn't realize they were looking at something more advanced than TL-15. Technically, in my interpretation it's not -- the Collector is a TL-15 "Early" Collector-3 combined with a TL-15 "Standard" Collector-2 in the same package. The only part that's unusual is that the accumulator(s) can hold a charge indefinitely instead of self-discharging within a day, to align with the ship's capabilities as stated in DA1.

They failed to notice its ability to retain a charge because of a software mis-configuration that forced both the J-3 and J-2 sides of the Accumulator to discharge simultaneously into the active Jump Drive (which waste-gated the excess to protect the drive from overloading). If they hadn't been in a frantic rush to get the inspection over and done with because it's a freakin' PLAGUE SHIP!!! they might have figured it out. Or, you know, not.

You get some of the same effect at Boughene's starport for the overhaul, because they're also only TL-13 trying to analyze TL-15+, and it's the canonically-incompetent General Products corporation doing the work.
 
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LBB2 doesn't allow changing the size of the drive bay. (See also the Standard Hulls game mechanic.)
Jtas1.png


Um ... I don't quite know how to tell you this, but ... that's not a standard hull.

If anything, Annic Nova would be the epitome of a "custom hull" under LBB2.77 construction rules.
Hope you don't mind me pointing that out.
You get some of the same effect at Boughene's starport for the overhaul, because they're also only TL-13 trying to analyze TL-15+, and it's the canonically-incompetent General Products corporation doing the work.
Sold on General Products canonical incompetence being the deciding factor here.
 
Jtas1.png


Um ... I don't quite know how to tell you this, but ... that's not a standard hull.

If anything, Annic Nova would be the epitome of a "custom hull" under LBB2.77 construction rules.
Hope you don't mind me pointing that out.

Sold on General Products canonical incompetence being the deciding factor here.
Of course it's not standard! I just mentioned the "standard hull" rule because that's normally where you run into the "but Referee, I wanna upgrade my Free Trader to Jump-2/2G -- I'll just give up some space in the cargo hold, ok?" issue. (Answer: Nope. You have to buy a different ship, sorry.)

And LBB5 is even worse: read literally, you can't increase the size of any individual drive from stock under the refitting rules, so the only possible upgrade is installing a higher-TL power plant. (Maybe if you swapped HG drives in for LBB2 ones, but that REALLY limits what maneuver drive is possible because you can't mix-and-match.)
 
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Since you @Grav_Moped objected to the idea of using LBB2.77 drives in a 100 ton hull at TL=9 to achieve Jump-6 performance with L-Hyd drop tanks as detailed over here for the Canary Run ... I figured I might as well take a second stab at the issue using a TL=12 200 ton hull from LBB5.80 with LBB2.81 standard drives installed into it (Power Plant-6 is an absolute killer for fuel on small ships).

The biggest problem is that Jump-6 plus Power Plant-6 in a 200 ton hull requires 120 tons of jump fuel plus 60 tons of power plant fuel. That's 180 tons of fuel in a 200 ton hull if all the fuel is internal ... and you still need room for the drives themselves, bridge, computer model/6 ... crew staterooms (pilot, engineers, medic required ... navigator, steward, gunners optional) ... and there's just no way to make everything fit internally.

But if you use L-Hyd drop tanks to push some/all of the jump fuel requirement external to the hull, it can be made to work. :unsure:



So ... yet another counter-proposal. 🚀


LBB2.81 ... 200 ton TL=12 J6 Business Courier
  • 200 ton custom hull, atmospheric streamlining = MCr22
  • Jump-F (6), Maneuver-F (6), Power Plant-F (6) = 35+11+19 = 65 tons, MCr132 :oops: (EP:12 in LBB5.80)
  • Fuel Purification Plant: 200 ton capacity = 6 tons, MCr0.032 (LBB5.80, p27 and p36)
    • Refines 1 ton of unrefined gas fuel per 1 minute (120+60=180 minutes/3 hours total with L-Hyd drop tank installed)
    • Refines 1 ton of water fuel per 10 minutes (1200+600=1800 minutes/30 hours total with L-Hyd drop tank installed)
  • 60 tons of internal fuel (power plant only, 4 weeks/28 days endurance, 24 weeks/168 days powered down)
    • 120 ton external L-Hyd drop tank (Cr130,000 new/empty, Cr12,000 reuse/empty)
      Drive performance reduced to Jump-3, Maneuver-3, Power Plant-3 while drop tank is retained.
  • Triple Turret: Sandcaster, Pulse Laser, Missile = 1 ton, MCr2.5 (EP:1 in LBB5.80)
  • Bridge = 20 tons, MCr1
  • Computer model/6 = 7 tons, MCr55 (EP:5 in LBB5.80)
  • Staterooms: 4 = 16 tons, MCr2 (20 person/days life support per stateroom)
    • Crew (4): Pilot-2/Gunnery-2, Engineering-1 (chief), Engineering-1, Medic-1
  • Cargo: 25 tons (5 tons mail vault, 20 tons cargo)
Total tonnage = 65+6+60+1+20+7+16+25 = 200 tons (wasted space: 0 tons)
Total cost (first in class) = MCr214.662 (including new L-Hyd drop tank construction cost), 48 weeks construction time (LBB A5, p33)
10% discount volume production cost = MCr193.1958, 44 weeks construction time

Recurring overhead expenses per jump on a 12 day cycle on the Canary Run:
  • L-Hyd drop tank rental: Cr12,000
  • Berthing Fees: Cr100
  • Life Support: Cr100 per person per day / Cr4800 per 12 days
  • Crew Salaries: Cr16,175 per 28 days / Cr6933 per 12 days
Total costs per jump = Cr23,833 per 12 days

Revenue generation per jump:
  • 5 tons mail: Cr25,000
  • Cargo Transport: Cr1000 per ton (max Cr20,000)
Net profits per 12 days = Cr1167 profit (mail only, no cargo) to Cr21,167 profit (mail, 20 tons cargo)
Net profits per 12 days with 50% subsidy rake on revenues = Cr11,333 loss (mail only, no cargo) to Cr1333 loss (mail, 20 tons of cargo)


Basically a high priced "business jet" type of fast transport that isn't expected to make much of a direct profit on starship operations (and certainly not enough to earn back the construction cost over 40 years).

Although there shouldn't be much trouble filling the cargo hold (20 tons of cargo would be pathetically easy to come by reliably on the Boughene to Regina route of the Canary Run) ... even with full manifests of mail and cargo to transport, annual revenue generation on 30 jump cycles of 12 days each (so 360 days, just in time to return to home base for annual overhaul maintenance!) would deliver a maximum of Cr440,374 in profit per year after all expenses (including annual overhaul maintenance) have been paid for if the ship is not operating under a subsidy. With a subsidy ... ship operations are simply a money pit, generating deficits on every jump.

So basically you buy and crew one of these ships to lose money (just like most business jets), since Cr440,374 per year amounts to a maximum of MCr17,614,960 over 40 years ... which is less than 10% the cost of construction for even a volume production version. Therefore, the return on investment with ships of this class would have to come from transport of high value speculative cargoes and the privileged information carried in the mail vault that would lead to economic deals and opportunities "external" to the operation of the ships on the Canary Run themselves.

The 20 ton cargo bay (not including the 5 ton mail vault) is a useful size for transport of high value cargoes, up to and including "modular offices" for business executives (4 staterooms plus 1 workshop is enough for 2 business associates, 2 secretary/stewards and a shared office space workshop that the business associates can each use during time in jump to continue working while en route). I figure that such 20 ton "modular offices" would be a relatively simple pre-fabricated design that can be rented by persons of sufficient means (and social standing and security clearance) to be loaded into the cargo bay of a Canary Run courier for a "fast business trip" between Boughene and Regina so as to facilitate coordination between interests at Boughene and the subsector capital.

20 ton hull, configuration: 4 close structure = MCr1.2 (LBB5.80)
4 staterooms = MCr2
1 workshop = MCr0.5
Total cost (first in class): MCr3.7
80% discount volume production: MCr2.96

Alternate configurations would be available, of course, but that gives you an idea of the variety of possible items to transport that can make a cargo bay more than just merely a cargo bay. Just slide the "modular office" into the cargo bay and you're ready for transport. The "modular office" can also continue to be used at the destination until your business dealings have been completed, at which time the "modular office" can be loaded right back onto another Canary Run ship for the return trip.

Note that a similar setup can be used to transport personnel who want to maintain a low profile and need cover stories (such as intelligence operatives) as well as other adventure hook scenarios.



The reason for the Maneuver-6 in addition to the Jump-6, Power Plant-6 is because the difference between Maneuver-2 and Maneuver-6 is the difference between a Maneuver-B drive (3 tons, MCr8) and a Maneuver-F drive (11 tons, MCr24) ... which all things considered is a pretty minimal/marginal difference in a J6 Courier ship (that is designed for SPEED rather than for direct mercantile PROFIT). Unlike LBB5.80 custom maneuver drives, with LBB2.81 standard drives it is possible to "pile on" the maneuver capacity relatively cheaply (in terms of tonnage needed).

From a LBB5.80 USP perspective, the ship would have a standard Agility=3 powering the pulse laser (EP=1) and model/6 computer (EP=5) ... but an Emergency Agility=6 if the pulse laser is powered down (which in a Break Off By Acceleration situation would be an excellent idea to avoid an unwanted intercept).
1x TL=12 Sandcaster = 1 battery code: 3
1x TL=12 Pulse Laser = 1 battery code: 1
1x TL=12 Missile = 1 battery code: 1
Hardly a scary prospect until you realize that model/6 computer does extremely nasty things with to-hit rolls (offensively and defensively) under LBB5.80 combat rules. LBB2.81 starship combat rules, particularly with extensive computer programs running, are ... different. :unsure:



So ... there you have it, @Grav_Moped.
If you didn't like my 100 ton TL=9 LBB2.77 version (which was about 1/3rd the price of this beast) ... here's an alternative using LBB2.81 for you that relies on L-Hyd drop tanks and a fuel purification plant to make it almost break even economical in a paid off condition.
 
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