Btiching about Corsair (and streamlining in general)

[DrSkull]

Okay, I'm getting some index cards ready for my game, and I realize (probably not for the first time) that the Corsair is not streamlined (or at best is partially streamlined) so it can't land on a planet. It also has no boats, not even an air/raft. How do you get down? I don't imagine pirates like to go to High Ports in every system. I know they can shove a boat into the cargo hold, but shouldn't there be some way to reach the planet without improvision.

Which brings me to streamlining in general. Getting a cone or wedge just isn't that much more expensive than a cylinder. Why build a cylinder just to cause yourself headaches? I can see big naval ships being dispersed structures etc., and they have support vessels and can carry big shuttles. But I think its crazy to build a small merchant vessel that isn't streamlined.

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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[GypsyComet]

This is why I'm rather easy about "customizing" standard designs (IMTU, the Corsair only starts USL, but can be "sanded smooth" fairly easily). Also, my TNE and T4 Corsair has an external grapple and an odd-sized drive assortment...

 

[GypsyComet]

Also, it was a TNE assumption (a bit later anyway) that a ship with Contra-Grav could act like a ship of one streamlining class better, though it wouldn't necessarily be good at it...

 

[Simon Jester]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrSkull:
Okay, I'm getting some index cards ready for my game, and I realize (probably not for the first time) that the Corsair is not streamlined (or at best is partially streamlined) so it can't land on a planet. It also has no boats, not even an air/raft. How do you get down? I don't imagine pirates like to go to High Ports in every system. I know they can shove a boat into the cargo hold, but shouldn't there be some way to reach the planet without improvision.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If a vessel has contragrav it doesn't need to be streamlined to be able to land on a planetary surface. Also, vessels that do not have CG should be able to land on planetary surfaces anyway provided the planet doesn't have more than a very thin atmosphere.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Which brings me to streamlining in general. Getting a cone or wedge just isn't that much more expensive than a cylinder. Why build a cylinder just to cause yourself headaches? I can see big naval ships being dispersed structures etc., and they have support vessels and can carry big shuttles. But I think its crazy to build a small merchant vessel that isn't streamlined.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The advantage of a cylinder is much the same as a sphere, maximum interior volume for minimum surface area (which must be plated with expensive hull material). Since (most) merchant hulls don't carry military-grade sensors or more than minimal defensive weaponry, they can do without great expanses of hull surface. Remember that merchants are in business to make money, not spend it on unnecessary ship components.

Simon Jester

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-If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.

 

[phydaux]

so if you play CT, how do you tell what ships have contra-gravity and what ships don't? IIRC, it's not listed in any of the write-ups.

 

[DrSkull]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phydaux:
so if you play CT, how do you tell what ships have contra-gravity and what ships don't? IIRC, it's not listed in any of the write-ups.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, if you play MT or TNE then all that Contra-grav argument makes sense. But in CT, T4 (and T20 ssshhh) there is no contra-grav separate from Maneuver drive, and unstreamlined ships can't land on planets with atmospheres.
SO a standard corsair has to look for an airless planet or a High Port, most inconvenient.


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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[Vargas]

I find the term "standard corsair" to be somewhat amusing (and DGP's "corsair class" starship for MT even more so). But then again, it might just be me. . .

 

[Takei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vargas:
I find the term "standard corsair" to be somewhat amusing (and DGP's "corsair class" starship for MT even more so). But then again, it might just be me. . .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of Traveller's little querks that still makes me smile!

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Paul

 

[WendellM]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phydaux:
so if you play CT, how do you tell what ships have contra-gravity and what ships don't?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What ship contra-grav in CT? That's why starports have those big blast barriers!

That makes one wonder, though - if a 1G ship landed on Earth at sea level, would it be able to take off again (since its thrust exactly equals gravity)? I guess a crewman would have to lean out of a hatch with a fire extinguisher, which would provide just enough extra thrust to get the ship into the 0.9999999999999G ring where it would be able to slooooowly take off.

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Wendell (IMTU tc++ !tm !tn !t4 !tg ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au ls+ he)

 

[GypsyComet]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phydaux:
so if you play CT, how do you tell what ships have contra-gravity and what ships don't? IIRC, it's not listed in any of the write-ups.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CG got shoe-horned into all standard designs under TNE, so you could make a blanket statement.

Alternately, check all "Standard hull" designs (under Book 2) for spare engineering space. Most of them have LOTS of it. Allow such a ship to add CG, or make the assumption that any design that uses Book 2 Standard Drives WILL have CG.
For Custom hulls and HG, I would tend to go with dead space available (if you know it; reverse engineering those ships is thankless...), or make another blanket assumption: 5000+ dtons will NOT have it, since they never land anyway, while all smaller hulls WILL have CG except by Referee fiat.

For MT, any ship with Thruster Plates is pretty well equipped to land regardless of streamlining...

The easiest assumption is to treat the streamlining as more of a relative scale than an absolute one. ALL ships (except dispersed hulls and rocks) can land unless the fluff (or a picture) makes it clear that they can't. Their streamlining class determines how good they are at it. AF and SL ships get clearance to the downport along the usual flight-lines. PSL ships will be denied ground access in busy systems unless there are specific flight corridors for these "slow bricks". USL ships don't get ground clearance unless it's an emergency, since they take *hours* to land safely, and that's only in GOOD weather...

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WendellM:
What ship contra-grav in CT? That's why starports have those big blast barriers!

That makes one wonder, though - if a 1G ship landed on Earth at sea level, would it be able to take off again (since its thrust exactly equals gravity)? I guess a crewman would have to lean out of a hatch with a fire extinguisher, which would provide just enough extra thrust to get the ship into the 0.9999999999999G ring where it would be able to slooooowly take off.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, under SSOM for MT, you could get up to 400% thrust for short periods of time along the primary plate thrust axis, and up to 200% perpendicular to it. If you assume that CT thrusters are, in fact, T-plates, and you allow the SSOM "Push rule", it becomes easy enough for ships to handle up to 1.5 G surfaces with 1G sustained thrust capability.

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrSkull:
I agree, if you play MT or TNE then all that Contra-grav argument makes sense. But in CT, T4 (and T20 ssshhh) there is no contra-grav separate from Maneuver drive, and unstreamlined ships can't land on planets with atmospheres.
SO a standard corsair has to look for an airless planet or a High Port, most inconvenient.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MT is NOT contra-grav. It's reactionless thrust. You have to have at least as mmuch thrust available as there is surface gravity in order to make it out, more is better.

TNE's Contragrav negates 99.99% of interation with gravity; wholly a different thing. In essence, a CG ship floats (in many atmospheres, it's possible that they would...) so a CG ship with even 0.01 G CAN make orbit under TNE on most worlds, and 0.1 G makes even the densest "Solid worlds" landable.


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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!