Changing UGM....ideas....

[Supplement Four]

I'm pretty happy with UGM the way it is, but I've been toying with a few other ideas.

I thought I'd throw them out here on the wall to see if anything sticks.

These are just ideas...not completed rules.

Throw your two cents into the pile. I welcome your comments.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm pretty happy with UGM the way it is, but I've been toying with a few other ideas.

I thought I'd throw them out here on the wall to see if anything sticks.

These are just ideas...not completed rules.

Throw your two cents into the pile. I welcome your comments.

 

[Supplement Four]

(Random Difficulty Idea)


I got this idea for UGM when re-reading the CT task system provided on page 28 of The Traveller Adventure.

What if UGM was used this way....


DIFFICULTY
1D...Easy
2D...Routine
3D...Standard
4D...Difficult
5D...Formidable
6D...Impossible

Difficulty is determined by the random throw minus governor stat.


TASK THROW

Throw 2D +mods for Difficulty or better.

(Skill level is a typical mod).


Example: Fred, DEX-7 Mountaineering-1, wants to climb a cliff face. The GM decides this is a Difficult throw.

The player knows he's up against a 4D difficulty, but the GM secretly throws 4D behind his screen. 4D (rolled 15) -7 = 8.

Player rolls 2D +1.

Task will succeed on 8+.


Another example--

Fred, EDU-5 Communications-3, is trying to break through some atmospheric interference on the comm. The GM decides this is a Standard roll.

The player rolls 2D +3.

The GM, secretly, rolls 3D -5.

The player is successful if his roll totals higher than the difficulty.

 

[Supplement Four]

(Random Difficulty Idea)


I got this idea for UGM when re-reading the CT task system provided on page 28 of The Traveller Adventure.

What if UGM was used this way....


DIFFICULTY
1D...Easy
2D...Routine
3D...Standard
4D...Difficult
5D...Formidable
6D...Impossible

Difficulty is determined by the random throw minus governor stat.


TASK THROW

Throw 2D +mods for Difficulty or better.

(Skill level is a typical mod).


Example: Fred, DEX-7 Mountaineering-1, wants to climb a cliff face. The GM decides this is a Difficult throw.

The player knows he's up against a 4D difficulty, but the GM secretly throws 4D behind his screen. 4D (rolled 15) -7 = 8.

Player rolls 2D +1.

Task will succeed on 8+.


Another example--

Fred, EDU-5 Communications-3, is trying to break through some atmospheric interference on the comm. The GM decides this is a Standard roll.

The player rolls 2D +3.

The GM, secretly, rolls 3D -5.

The player is successful if his roll totals higher than the difficulty.

 

[Supplement Four]

(Static Bonus Idea)


Here's another version of UGM I've been looking at.

Basically, what I've done here is invert (and shifted a bit) the characteristic scale so that high stats always get a bonus on most difficulty levels while lower stats only get a bonus on some (lower) difficulty levels....

...this system is very similar to the regular UGM method, except that the bonus stat DM is always available to the character on certain difficulty levels.

I'll explain...


Stat-1 is -3DM on all tasks.
Stat-2 is -2DM on all tasks.
Stat-3 is -1DM on all tasks.

Stat-4 is +0DM on all tasks.

Stat-5 is +1DM on Easy tasks.
Stat-6 is +1DM on Routine (and below) tasks.
Stat-7 is +1DM on Standard (and below) tasks.

Stat-8 is +1DM on Difficult (and below) tasks.
Stat-9 is +1DM on Challenging (and below) tasks.
Stat-10 is +1DM on Formidable (and below) tasks.

etc....


What do you think about that? This way, if you have a Stat-7, you know that you're +1 on Easy, Routine, and Standard tasks. Anything else, you get no bonus.

If this idea is developed, we'll have to investigate how to deal with stats 13-15 by giving them a bonus (in response to the negative that Stats 1-3 get).

Again, these are just ideas. We're kicking these around here. Brainstorming.

Our goal: The perfect Classic Traveller task system.

 

[Supplement Four]

(Static Bonus Idea)


Here's another version of UGM I've been looking at.

Basically, what I've done here is invert (and shifted a bit) the characteristic scale so that high stats always get a bonus on most difficulty levels while lower stats only get a bonus on some (lower) difficulty levels....

...this system is very similar to the regular UGM method, except that the bonus stat DM is always available to the character on certain difficulty levels.

I'll explain...


Stat-1 is -3DM on all tasks.
Stat-2 is -2DM on all tasks.
Stat-3 is -1DM on all tasks.

Stat-4 is +0DM on all tasks.

Stat-5 is +1DM on Easy tasks.
Stat-6 is +1DM on Routine (and below) tasks.
Stat-7 is +1DM on Standard (and below) tasks.

Stat-8 is +1DM on Difficult (and below) tasks.
Stat-9 is +1DM on Challenging (and below) tasks.
Stat-10 is +1DM on Formidable (and below) tasks.

etc....


What do you think about that? This way, if you have a Stat-7, you know that you're +1 on Easy, Routine, and Standard tasks. Anything else, you get no bonus.

If this idea is developed, we'll have to investigate how to deal with stats 13-15 by giving them a bonus (in response to the negative that Stats 1-3 get).

Again, these are just ideas. We're kicking these around here. Brainstorming.

Our goal: The perfect Classic Traveller task system.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
(Random Difficulty Idea)
...snip...

So the target number is secretly randomised?

You, know, this might just work

I'll give it a try this weekend.

 

[Supplement Four]

(Another Static Bonus idea)


Here's and idea I posted in another thread for UGM.


What if all DMs added to our subtracted from the base difficulty of 8+?

Skills would decrease the difficulty.
Difficulty categories would either increase or decrease it.
And, the final number, would be what is needed to be rolled on 2D.

The player rolls 2D only--no mods effect the throw.


So, Fred, with his Stat-7 Skill-2, rolling a Difficult task, would throw 2D.

He's successful if his throw is better than (8 -2 +2) 8+.

Here's the rub: On any target number that is equal to Fred's Stat or less receives a -1 bonus DM on difficulty.

So, Fred, with his Stat-7, would receive a beneficial -1DM to difficulty any time his target number is 7 or less.

Thoughts?

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
(Random Difficulty Idea)
...snip...

So the target number is secretly randomised?

You, know, this might just work

I'll give it a try this weekend.

 

[Supplement Four]

(Another Static Bonus idea)


Here's and idea I posted in another thread for UGM.


What if all DMs added to our subtracted from the base difficulty of 8+?

Skills would decrease the difficulty.
Difficulty categories would either increase or decrease it.
And, the final number, would be what is needed to be rolled on 2D.

The player rolls 2D only--no mods effect the throw.


So, Fred, with his Stat-7 Skill-2, rolling a Difficult task, would throw 2D.

He's successful if his throw is better than (8 -2 +2) 8+.

Here's the rub: On any target number that is equal to Fred's Stat or less receives a -1 bonus DM on difficulty.

So, Fred, with his Stat-7, would receive a beneficial -1DM to difficulty any time his target number is 7 or less.

Thoughts?

 

[mike wightman]

EXPECTED AVERAGE DIFFICULTY
1D...Easy..........3-4
2D...Routine.......6-7-8
3D...Standard......9-10-11-12
4D...Difficult.....12-13-14-15-16
5D...Formidable....15-16-17-18-19-20
6D...Impossible....18-19-20-21-22-23-24

Hmm, this is going to make tasks easier for the PC most of the time isn't it?

 

[mike wightman]

EXPECTED AVERAGE DIFFICULTY
1D...Easy..........3-4
2D...Routine.......6-7-8
3D...Standard......9-10-11-12
4D...Difficult.....12-13-14-15-16
5D...Formidable....15-16-17-18-19-20
6D...Impossible....18-19-20-21-22-23-24

Hmm, this is going to make tasks easier for the PC most of the time isn't it?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
So the target number is secretly randomised?

Yes. I like that idea too.

Players, if they know difficulty of the task, will know how many dice they're going up against. And, they know their stat.

But, that still leaves a pretty wide range.

Characters with higher stats, of course, would typically get lower targets--they'll be better at tasks than those with lower stats.

You, know, this might just work

Be careful, Sig! These are RAW ideas. I haven't done ANY stat analysis on what I proposed for the difficulty levels. I just eyeballed them.

Experience has taught me that in-depth stat analysis is needed before any play testing.

I'm just battin' around ideas here.

Since we're subtracting Stat from the difficulty total, my guess is that we'll have to roll more dice to compensate (more than what I've listed here).

Figure an average on 1D is 4 (which is why I chose that as Easy). Runs 1-6.

Average of 2D is 7. Runs 2-12

Average of 3D is 10. Runs 3-18

Average of 4D is 14. Runs 4-24

Average of 5D is 18. Runs 5-30

Average of 6D is 21. Runs 6-36

These numbers are definitely not ready for play testing.

Another thing to consider--as we roll more dice for difficulty, the probability curve will become more steep. Standard deviation will drop. Target numbers will cluster around the average.

Given that, high stats will probably blow this system away (which is why stat analysis is needed) because (1) a high stat will blow away the lower dice throws, and (2) with the target number clustering around the average when a lot of dice are thrown, high stats will probably blow those away too--always keeping target numbers low.

For example: Stat-15 throws an Impossible task. On Impossible tasks (6D) it's very likely that the target number will be closer to 21 than either 6 or 36.

That means, that, on average, your Stat-15 guys will be throwing Impossible tasks on a 6+ most of the time.

Not so good, eh?

Like I said...these are very raw ideas.

I'm just kickin' them around.

I certainly wouldn't play test any of them yet--not until they are defined a little more.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
So the target number is secretly randomised?

Yes. I like that idea too.

Players, if they know difficulty of the task, will know how many dice they're going up against. And, they know their stat.

But, that still leaves a pretty wide range.

Characters with higher stats, of course, would typically get lower targets--they'll be better at tasks than those with lower stats.

You, know, this might just work

Be careful, Sig! These are RAW ideas. I haven't done ANY stat analysis on what I proposed for the difficulty levels. I just eyeballed them.

Experience has taught me that in-depth stat analysis is needed before any play testing.

I'm just battin' around ideas here.

Since we're subtracting Stat from the difficulty total, my guess is that we'll have to roll more dice to compensate (more than what I've listed here).

Figure an average on 1D is 4 (which is why I chose that as Easy). Runs 1-6.

Average of 2D is 7. Runs 2-12

Average of 3D is 10. Runs 3-18

Average of 4D is 14. Runs 4-24

Average of 5D is 18. Runs 5-30

Average of 6D is 21. Runs 6-36

These numbers are definitely not ready for play testing.

Another thing to consider--as we roll more dice for difficulty, the probability curve will become more steep. Standard deviation will drop. Target numbers will cluster around the average.

Given that, high stats will probably blow this system away (which is why stat analysis is needed) because (1) a high stat will blow away the lower dice throws, and (2) with the target number clustering around the average when a lot of dice are thrown, high stats will probably blow those away too--always keeping target numbers low.

For example: Stat-15 throws an Impossible task. On Impossible tasks (6D) it's very likely that the target number will be closer to 21 than either 6 or 36.

That means, that, on average, your Stat-15 guys will be throwing Impossible tasks on a 6+ most of the time.

Not so good, eh?

Like I said...these are very raw ideas.

I'm just kickin' them around.

I certainly wouldn't play test any of them yet--not until they are defined a little more.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
(Another Static Bonus idea)


Here's and idea I posted in another thread for UGM.


What if all DMs added to our subtracted from the base difficulty of 8+?

Skills would decrease the difficulty.
Difficulty categories would either increase or decrease it.
And, the final number, would be what is needed to be rolled on 2D.

The player rolls 2D only--no mods effect the throw.


So, Fred, with his Stat-7 Skill-2, rolling a Difficult task, would throw 2D.

He's successful if his throw is better than (8 -2 +2) 8+.

Here's the rub: On any target number that is equal to Fred's Stat or less receives a -1 bonus DM on difficulty.

So, Fred, with his Stat-7, would receive a beneficial -1DM to difficulty any time his target number is 7 or less.

Thoughts?

This is almost the same as Paul Elliott's task system:
http://www.geocities.com/zozergames/fbotr.html

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
(Another Static Bonus idea)


Here's and idea I posted in another thread for UGM.


What if all DMs added to our subtracted from the base difficulty of 8+?

Skills would decrease the difficulty.
Difficulty categories would either increase or decrease it.
And, the final number, would be what is needed to be rolled on 2D.

The player rolls 2D only--no mods effect the throw.


So, Fred, with his Stat-7 Skill-2, rolling a Difficult task, would throw 2D.

He's successful if his throw is better than (8 -2 +2) 8+.

Here's the rub: On any target number that is equal to Fred's Stat or less receives a -1 bonus DM on difficulty.

So, Fred, with his Stat-7, would receive a beneficial -1DM to difficulty any time his target number is 7 or less.

Thoughts?

This is almost the same as Paul Elliott's task system:
http://www.geocities.com/zozergames/fbotr.html

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Hmm, this is going to make tasks easier for the PC most of the time isn't it?

LOL. We're posting the same comment at the same time!

Your comments were just shorter than mine!

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Hmm, this is going to make tasks easier for the PC most of the time isn't it?

LOL. We're posting the same comment at the same time!

Your comments were just shorter than mine!

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
This is almost the same as Paul Elliott's task system:
http://www.geocities.com/zozergames/fbotr.html

You know, Sig, I have a sneakin' suspicion that none of these ideas is going to be better than UGM as it already stands.

If it ain't broke, why fix it eh?

I was just thinking out loud here.

I mean, I completely like UGM just the way it is.

I was just trying to cover all the bases and make sure that I'm not missing out on a better idea.

Right now, UGM is the best CT task system I've ever seen (and I'm not just saying that because I wrote it--I'd easily use somebody else's system if I thought it was a better CT system).

I just wanted to investigate if there was any way to improve the idea.

It's not looking like there is a better way of doing things, is there?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
This is almost the same as Paul Elliott's task system:
http://www.geocities.com/zozergames/fbotr.html

You know, Sig, I have a sneakin' suspicion that none of these ideas is going to be better than UGM as it already stands.

If it ain't broke, why fix it eh?

I was just thinking out loud here.

I mean, I completely like UGM just the way it is.

I was just trying to cover all the bases and make sure that I'm not missing out on a better idea.

Right now, UGM is the best CT task system I've ever seen (and I'm not just saying that because I wrote it--I'd easily use somebody else's system if I thought it was a better CT system).

I just wanted to investigate if there was any way to improve the idea.

It's not looking like there is a better way of doing things, is there?