CT Only: Character Advancement and goals

[jaz0nj4ckal]

After playing a few game sessions, I am a little confused as to how to how to set goals for player characters. I am coming from the D&D world, where your
character starts out young and advances through the game. However, in
Traveller – one plays a semi-established character that is in their
20-50s. Career and mustering out builds the character and their
background.

Due to the latter, how should I view Traveller characters, advancement and setting goals? Is the main goal - money and equipment, since levels are
not used? Are Traveller characters throw away? Can the same
advancement/leveling goal setting love be put into an already established character like one does with an D&D from level 0-20?

Just trying to grasp how I should view character advancement and
further development and goal setting.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Star Trek episodes. What goals do the characters have in each?

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Star Trek episodes. What goals do the characters have in each?

Hi Shawn - big fan of your youtube videos. So, I should not view my Traveller characters as I do my D&D characters, but view them as already established personalities that are used in serial like game play?

I am trying to give my game the campie 50-80s scifi feel, with cliff hangers when we stop.

 

[Blue Ghost]

The idea was that you would start out without a ship, some money, little in the way of gear, and that as you took on more missions you would get exposed to more equipment with more money so that you could buy it.

There's a section in the old classic Traveller Book on advancement and training. ISTR that you could have a total number of skills adding up up to the sum of your INT and EDU, and that any skill gained beyond that was at the cost of what you already had. Further, that you could take some time off to get training in something, and / or add to one of your six basic stats, but that it required a dedication roll of .... I can't remember, either an 8+ or 9+

As for setting goals, well, this was one of the short comings of the original rules. The author states that the ref should avoid lavishing money and gear on the players, but to keep them enticed somehow for the next adventure. D&D solved this through the Experience and level system, whereas Traveller is a bit more nebulous and requires Game masters, or Referees, or whoever's running the show, to come up with some scheme for the players to advanced.

Hope that helps.

 

[kilemall]

A lot of the goal setting depends on the genre.

A classic one is the tramp/adventure merchant, like Firefly doing a bit of cargo/passenger/smuggling/good deeds/questionable activity all to 'keep flying'.

Merc adventures involve keeping a small unit together, paid, not destroyed, and gearing up a bit to get ahead.

YOu could do a 'Service' campaign where the crew/unit/ship are together and ordered from one 'episode/mission' to the next.

You could be choosing to rankup in wealth politics and power in a nobles game.

Gearing up in Traveller involves getting better and better equipment, which at the least costs more and may require a science fiction form of questing to gain rare items.

Or do the scifi equivalent of the dungeon crawl, an archeological grab especially for artifacts with strange powers.

Or seeking anagathics, essentially anti-aging drugs.

It just won't be grinding for XP.

Far as getting new skills- by original CT you can take a 4-year sabbatical for 70000 Cr and get a skill-2 in whatever.

You can tutor, effectively do something like a modern internet online university, and increase your EDU.

There is also the choice of training up in two weapons at once, improving skills you already have, or physical fitness regimens (+1 to STR/DEX/END effectively increasing your 'hit points'), only one of which your character can be doing at a time.

The rules also state you can make up exotic means of skill acquisition. Later versions of Traveller have data wafers with 'chipped' skills.

You can also buy robots with skills that you need.

LBB4+ has the skill Instruction, which will allow rapid skill acquisition in months, but you have to find instructors that have both the skills you want and the Instruction level to convey it. Then, pay their salary for months while taking likely at least two passes at it to succeed just for level-1.

Level-2 is tough to come by, Levels 3 and 4 Instructors are almost unheard of and would be legendary master/sensei. It would likely require persuasion, impression or personal debt that would gain the time and attention of such a person to teach.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Hi Shawn - big fan of your youtube videos. So, I should not view my Traveller characters as I do my D&D characters, but view them as already established personalities that are used in serial like game play?

I am trying to give my game the campie 50-80s scifi feel, with cliff hangers when we stop.

Goals would be, overthrow the planet's Warlord, rescue hostages, opening trade deals, perform test flights, find a murderer, transport unruly passengers, find a cure for a spreading disease, etc.

Characters gain fame and fortune along the way. That is the Traveller way. If you read H. Beam Piper's Space Viking, that is how characters "level up" in Traveller. Book can be found here http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20728

 

[aramis]

Compared to D&D...

The classic "D&D Campaign Arche"

BX BECMI Cyclopedia	AD&D	Roles
1-3	1-3	trivial local adventures
4-6	3-6 local heroes, expanding into nearby areas, some overland
7-9	5-9	becoming regional heroes
10-15	9-15	Local Lords
16-20	12-20	extra-planar adventures, regional rulership, national heroes
21-25	16-20	Extra-planar heroes, possibly national rulers.
26-30	—	discovering the Immortals (deities)

The Traveller arche is

Near broke and just out of service

not so broke and discovering where you ended up

making a living and running from trouble or making a living by setting down roots

Buy a place to retire -or- conquer a place -or- Die in combat

 

[Condottiere]

The last phase being, buying the farm.

 

[mike wightman]

The final section of LBB3 sums it up nicely:

The players themselves have a burden almost equal to that of the referee: they must move, act, travel in search of their own goals. The typical methods used in life by 20th century Terrans (thrift, dedication, and hard work) do not work in Traveller; instead, travellers must boldly plan and execute daring schemes for the acquisition of wealth and power.

Wealth = better/higher TL gear, artifacts from extinct civilizations, money, ownership of stuff (factories, starports, planets, ancient ruins, starships etc.) and lots more
Power = political influence, knowledge of the secrets, fame, often overlaps with wealth...

 

[BytePro]

Character advancement is more about gaming - i.e., increasing 'points'.

Character goals are more about roleplaying - i.e., what's the PC's story.

In both games, character goals may include survival and/or gaining knowledge, wealth, status, better gear, etc.

Character advancement in Traveller is essentially just building 'more character', not necessarily a 'more powerful character'.

 

[Blue Ghost]

jaz0nj4ckal; I think the best answer to your questions is that Traveller is a bit more free form. The game is about experiencing the adventure and playing through the story or scenario, more than about bumping off the next monster in a dungeon crawl.

I hope that helps.

 

[creativehum]

jaz0nj4ckal, you've already gotten great answers. I want to expand on them a bit...

The notion you drew from Shawn's post that the characters are already "established personalities" is very helpful. The Traveller character creation system is there to give every PC a history. Look at the example of Captain Jamison in the book. Each term and each improvement is a chance to add color and detail to the PC. The skills are not only there to inform what the character can do but help inform who the character is.


Some other thoughts:

I think there are four broad path to keep the ideas above orderly:

1. In the first case the PCs arrive in a subsector without direction. They bang around for a while... and keep banging around. They get a job, they do it, they get more money, they get more stuff. The goals are short term and their successes allows the PCs to work toward each successive goal more efficiently. This structure is more episodic. This tends to be more patron-driven play -- and remains patron driven play.
2. In the second case, we begin as the first, but as the PCs learn their way around the subsector and work for patrons they learn what matters to them. They make enemies or allies. They decide who they want to help or who the want to hurt. They are no longer looking for jobs but are looking for the means to accomplish goals they set themselves. (This touches on the quote mike pulled from the 1981 edition of Book 3). They might take jobs to fund their ambitions. But going from job to job is no longer the goal. The jobs are a means to taking out the man who conquered the planet they landed on and loved or whatever.
3. The third structure is to sit down with the players before play begins, telling them about the setting, and asking, "What kind of shenanigans do you want to get involved with?" (Kilemall's list will be helpful for this.) If they say, "We want to form a mere company" then you know that you want to build situations, NPCs, and environments that feed that goal. They don't have a mere company yet. But everyone know this is the path the PCs are walking. They are either getting closer to that goal or further away from it in each session. The tension is not "levels" but always moving toward the goal.
4. The fourth structure is a more focused version of the third and a jump-started version of the second: The PCs have a histories that are shared, they know each other. And they build, with you, a history that offers them a goal. "We know the lord lord we have have been seeking to kill is in this subsector..." and boom play begins with them seeking him out and gathering resources to make the warlord's death happen. (Per Aramis' chart the PCs begin basically broke. Killing the warlord will be a lot of work to gather resources, information, and allies to make this happen!) In this situation the characters might end up doing jobs or making new allies or new enemies along the way toward their goal. There are all sorts of eddies and side rivers they might go down during more episodic adventures. But they have a concrete specific goal they want to reach. Like structure three the PCs are either getting closer to their self appointed goal ("We know where he is now!" or further away from it ("We crash landed on a remote world and need to repair the ship somehow!") in each session. The tension is not "levels" but always moving toward the goal.

Whichever structure you choose (or any other you use) keep in mind that it is a very different style of play than found in most other games. There is no shame in making this clear to the players. To bluntly state "There are no levels and there is not XP for "doing things" in this game. What matters is "the goals you create" is a fine thing to say.

Because this is a new style of play for lots of players structure one and two above are usually easier to start with. (Structures three and four require players (not PCs but players) who are good at self-motivating and setting goals of their own. And you say, "Listen, as we play, be on the lookout for the things you want to do."


I suppose I should add that all of the above is premised on the notion that the Referee has no "story" or "plot" ahead of time. Traveller was built as a sandbox game in which the choices the Players make for their PCs matter and those choices where the players are going and what is going to happen next. But that's my style of play.

 

[mike wightman]

I wonder sometimes if the players themselves should take part in describing the worlds of a subsector in which they adventure.

 

[kilemall]

I wonder sometimes if the players themselves should take part in describing the worlds of a subsector in which they adventure.

Hmm, that could be expanded.

Give each player their own homeworld their characters come from, they define and describe it.

The per-table per-person version of the OTU 'land grab'.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Thank you all for great insight and suggestions. If there is one thing that stands out, and what I love about Traveller is the rules are not hard-set. Unlike a lot of games today, rules can over shadow the game world.

I guess what I have to remember when running Traveller games - that players are not chasing new levels, but maybe they are chasing more the game events or roleplaying their character. Due to the latter, it does put more burden on the Game Master; however, it is much fun to develop a story, and watch the players play their story for their character and the story that you created for them.

Thank you for the help and giving me some direction now how I should handle my PCs.

 

[BytePro]

Sounds like you have the idea jaz0nj4ckal.

Most of the Traveller rules are there to support the Referee - easing that burden.

It really handles adhoc and sandbox play well and assists focusing on story building.

Hmm, that could be expanded.

Give each player their own homeworld their characters come from, they define and describe it.

The per-table per-person version of the OTU 'land grab'.

Sure, it extends the collaborative storytelling.

Requires the right group - folks receptive to the Ref 'owning' their vision of things. Or, what we used to do - round robin refereeing...

Usually playing multiple PCs (for better skill coverage), each Player could switch in as Ref - their PCs would be sidelined to support roles such as staying aboard ship (avoided the schizophrenia of being both PC and Ref at the same time).

 

[flykiller]

Just trying to grasp how I should view character advancement and further development and goal setting.

you're the referee?

what do your players want?

 

[Brandon C]

Due to the latter, how should I view Traveller characters, advancement and setting goals?

Advancement is, for most characters, the accumulation of stuff. This could be money, the ultimate adventuring starship, etc.

Characters are too insignificant on the scale of hundreds of billions of sapients to have any kind of impact on society.

Is the main goal - money and equipment, since levels are
not used?

Probably.

Are Traveller characters throw away?

Sadly, yes. If a character can die during creation, one can't argue otherwise.

Fortunately, it takes under 10 minutes to create a new charactrer.

Can the same
advancement/leveling goal setting love be put into an already established character like one does with an D&D from level 0-20?

I don't think you can compare a character with virtually no room for personal power development with one with a vast ceiling for personal power gain.

Just trying to grasp how I should view character advancement and
further development and goal setting.

Accumulation of equipment and money. Not much else unless you change the setting.

 

[aramis]

Advancement is, for most characters, the accumulation of stuff. This could be money, the ultimate adventuring starship, etc.

Many aspire to earn a title, or a higher title, ora landed title to match their honor/reward title.

Characters are too insignificant on the scale of hundreds of billions of sapients to have any kind of impact on society.

Not always true.

When you have a party with 4 dukes and they associate with the sector duke as agents plenipotentiary... possibly with Ducal Warrants... entire planets can be made to depopulate.

Or a couple retired colonels forming a merc regiment....

Or, letting one get his hands on a meson gun... (IMTU, Luna acquires a logo in 1115... "Jeeves Bond & Co." Jeeves also found himself suddenly on the most wanted list....)

The ability to make a difference on a large scale is a matter of social structures and interfacing with them. In Traveller, far more than in most RPGs, Player Characters can start near the high levels of social power, and some games are influential politicking. Meanwhile, some are down-n-outs barely eking a living doing odd jobs.

 

[creativehum]

Characters are too insignificant on the scale of hundreds of billions of sapients to have any kind of impact on society

This depends entirely on the setting the Referee creates for the characters and the kinds of adventures involved.

If one assumes "society" as being 11,000 worlds, yes, most likely.

If one focuses on, however, one subsector (which is what the first edition of the Traveller suggested) then the "setting" focuses on about 40 world and "society" might be 20 or fewer worlds. And depending on the political and social structure of that setting, society in one specific setting might not be as stable and inviolable as another setting. (This is true whether one is playing in a subsector at the edges of the Third Imperium or a homegrown subsector.) The point is, given the slow travel and communication, an installer society will still have a "society" that is built off words that most frequently communicate and trade with each other. And, of course, entire adventures and even campaigns can take place on one world.

Some Referees want the PCs to be insignificant in the grand schemes of a monstrous society that stretches well off the boundaries of the Player Characters' concerns. Many want settings that cannot be touched by the players. I should be clear that I am not such a Referee. I want settings that can be trashed by the Player Characters if they work their asses off to do so. It's an RPG. The focus is the Player Characters. If the PCs should work themselves into a position where they seize the throne of a world, or engineer an attack between two planetary governments, or assassinate a Duke, or topple a dictator, or help bring peace to a subsector that has only known war for decades, so be it. All of that would be awesome.

As a Referee I like to have settings of play where society is volatile and full of friction. It might be that the PCs might only work their way through jobs that don't touch on the political sphere. But it also might be, in such subsectors, that they seize power of continents or worlds.

There's no reason to think that a high social standing is required for such endeavors. Adventure fiction (the original DNA of Classic Traveller) is full of characters who rise above their station through effort and guile. I don't see a game of Traveller being any different. Just as the other characteristics can rise and fall, so to could Social Standing. The application of SOC is not nailed down in the original rules -- and I think for good reason. It allows them to be elastic and allows the Referee and the Players to mark, if they wish, a climb up both society itself and perhaps even noble ranks.

___________
[Links above are to posts on my blog about focusing on the "setting of play" and not getting caught up in settings that the PCs can't influence.]