ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
Webcams are almost free these days. YouTube is free.
CT Only: Character Advancement and goals
- Thread starter jaz0nj4ckal
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
TINSTAAFL
If a product is free, you are the product.
If a product is free, you are the product.
You can PM me if you want a detailed account, or even a brief synopsis. Any further reply here on the matter might get me dinged by the moderators.
Hopefully we've given the OP enough replies that he can help navigate his game and players to an enjoyable gaming session. However, I still think that my idea of letting players start out at age 18 or younger (if so desired) with adventures tailored to their "level" (skill level) is an idea worth exploring.
Hopefully we've given the OP enough replies that he can help navigate his game and players to an enjoyable gaming session. However, I still think that my idea of letting players start out at age 18 or younger (if so desired) with adventures tailored to their "level" (skill level) is an idea worth exploring.
CT does not require playing PCs with skills... their DMs will, of course, reflect this if playing 'by the book'. In CT, most 'tasks' do not explicitly require skill 'to attempt'.
From our first games we played with NPCs and PCs who had no skills (usually redshirts).
I often had skill free NPC children in adventures (not PCs, but no rule mechanic difference). Just limit STR for children (I used STR *Age/18).
From our first games we played with NPCs and PCs who had no skills (usually redshirts).
I often had skill free NPC children in adventures (not PCs, but no rule mechanic difference). Just limit STR for children (I used STR *Age/18).
That's interesting. I'd like to hear more. How did you do it?
If you go strictly by CT rules (1977):
- Roll for characteristics and pick name.
- Don't choose to attempt to enlist. (rules state 'character may choose')
- (*Draft is only mandatory on failed enlistment.)
Done.
Or, one of my alternate approaches:
- Pick or roll an age (3d6 => 3 to 18 years).
- Roll for characteristics -
-- Multiply STR by Age and divide by 18, rounding down.
-- Multiply EDU by Age and divide by 18, rounding down.
- Choose a name.
- Roll once on each Mustering Out Table -
-- Material Benefits, Other - substituting Dagger or Stun Gun for Gun.
-- Cash Allowances, Other.
-- DM +1 if Soc is greater than A (10).
-- Extra roll on Cash Allowances if Soc is C (12).
Done.
- Roll for characteristics and pick name.
- Don't choose to attempt to enlist. (rules state 'character may choose')
- (*Draft is only mandatory on failed enlistment.)
Done.
Or, one of my alternate approaches:
- Pick or roll an age (3d6 => 3 to 18 years).
- Roll for characteristics -
-- Multiply STR by Age and divide by 18, rounding down.
-- Multiply EDU by Age and divide by 18, rounding down.
- Choose a name.
- Roll once on each Mustering Out Table -
-- Material Benefits, Other - substituting Dagger or Stun Gun for Gun.
-- Cash Allowances, Other.
-- DM +1 if Soc is greater than A (10).
-- Extra roll on Cash Allowances if Soc is C (12).
Done.
okay, I thought you were talking about the lack of a task system. Yeah, you can start out at 18, but then probably not fair well. The OP was wondering why there wasn't some kind of progression for character development in the game. I think it was mentioned that D20 coupled with the scifi genre didn't lend themselves to experience and levelling.
I've never tried it, but it seemed like a logical progression or outgrowth of the "build a legend" premise for fantasy games. Again, I'm not really trying to push it, it just seemed interesting and to tie in here with the thread.
I've never tried it, but it seemed like a logical progression or outgrowth of the "build a legend" premise for fantasy games. Again, I'm not really trying to push it, it just seemed interesting and to tie in here with the thread.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
For an experience and 'levelling' sci fi system I would much rather use any BRP derivative rather than use XP and levels.
I had a lot more fun with Alternity after I removed levels from that game.
I think the problem is the disconnect between the technical skills you have to learn, experience and master in a technological setting vs the kill stuff, get treasure and magically become a better fighter, wizard, priest paradigm of a lot of fantasy rpgs.
18 year old with no skill wants to be an starship engineer - no amount of killing monsters and taking their treasure will advance them as an engineer. They need to study, have an apprenticeship, have on the job experience, watch youtube videos - exciting stuff for an adventure.
I had a lot more fun with Alternity after I removed levels from that game.
I think the problem is the disconnect between the technical skills you have to learn, experience and master in a technological setting vs the kill stuff, get treasure and magically become a better fighter, wizard, priest paradigm of a lot of fantasy rpgs.
18 year old with no skill wants to be an starship engineer - no amount of killing monsters and taking their treasure will advance them as an engineer. They need to study, have an apprenticeship, have on the job experience, watch youtube videos - exciting stuff for an adventure.
I don't think there's a disconnect. When you fight a monster in D&D, then you're practicing your skill with a sword, bow or whatever magic you're armed with. The same would hold for trying to get the ship to jump in a critical situation. It's just that how many critical jump situations can you create that would generate experience for your player?
And I think that may be the unarticulated reason of why an experience and levelling system may not lend itself to a scifi RPG. In a fantasy RPG you're a warrior (mostly), and when you go into combat you're using your weapon. In the fight you're dodging or blocking as well as trying to slash at the opposition. Your character is learning new ways to fight, or what works against a wyvern verse what works against an orc. It seems problematic of how to create that kind of drama for pilots, medics, navigators, computer technicians, engineers and whoever else. And it's not just Traveller, but all the scifi RPGs.
Having said that, I think if the adventure material is rich enough, then it could work.
And I think that may be the unarticulated reason of why an experience and levelling system may not lend itself to a scifi RPG. In a fantasy RPG you're a warrior (mostly), and when you go into combat you're using your weapon. In the fight you're dodging or blocking as well as trying to slash at the opposition. Your character is learning new ways to fight, or what works against a wyvern verse what works against an orc. It seems problematic of how to create that kind of drama for pilots, medics, navigators, computer technicians, engineers and whoever else. And it's not just Traveller, but all the scifi RPGs.
Having said that, I think if the adventure material is rich enough, then it could work.
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
If XP and leveling up was going to work in the past for Traveller, it would have been with T20. But the Traveller editions that do work, are shown by the number of current posts in their forums here.
Well, I think the issue with D20 was that the people who owned D20 were a bit protective of it, so much to the point that they altered their Terms of Use that scared away a lot of folks.
I think T20 had the issue of levels being a quantum descriptor. It's origins are describing how good someone is at hand to hand combat or spell casting. How do you template onto Traveller skills?
Further, with fantasy games you're keeping track of the character's life-survival experience. If they suddenly took up ... pottery or clam digging, then how do you describe that? Also, do you want to have your players keep track of several independent exp tallies for each skill they have? That's the issue.
I think T20 had the issue of levels being a quantum descriptor. It's origins are describing how good someone is at hand to hand combat or spell casting. How do you template onto Traveller skills?
Further, with fantasy games you're keeping track of the character's life-survival experience. If they suddenly took up ... pottery or clam digging, then how do you describe that? Also, do you want to have your players keep track of several independent exp tallies for each skill they have? That's the issue.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Stars Without Number shows something of what that would look like IMO.
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
Traveller has for the most part been a skill-based game. It's a different animal from the typical RPG out there. Part of the beauty I like about Mongoose Traveller is that everything you do is a skillcheck pretty much. It doesn't matter if characters are "in combat" or not. They are still doing skillchecks regardless.
I'm trying to think in which sci-fi movie I saw characters ever level up. Hmm... Ripley was shown how a gun works, in one movie.
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
Does Luke level up during any Star Wars film though? I know in the first movie, he gets some psionic testing done. The second movie, he has better skill at psionics. But during Star Wars movies, characters are pretty much static. Any leveling up is done outside their movies.
Dune... enough time seems to pass in that movie for characters to age and learn skills.
Well, all the scifi RPGs on computer keep track of exp and skills automatically. That makes it easy. Asking players to do it gets a little harder.
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
Computers make everything easier. See playing GURPS manually.
This was a minor issue at the start of my current game. What we came up with is when a PC attempts a non-combat task that is Difficult or harder (or a combat task that equates to Very Difficult or harder) they may keep the Effect of a successful roll as ticks for the skill used. Accumulate enough ticks and you can train for the next level in that skill.
Right now we're using 3 + next level for ticks required. So 4 to get from 0 to 1, reset, 5 for level 2, reset, 6 for level 3, etc. Once they have the ticks they can train for 1 week + Cr1000 per tick. I allow half the time and money to be spent sporadically as the player wishes but the last half they must take "time off" with some sort of instructor and do it in a single stretch.
Two players have leveled up to 2 in a skill each. It seems to be working as it scratches the itch for skill advancement but only the skills they actually use are advancing and it takes some time and commitment. Not every session allows for using skills a PC may want to improve so that makes it all the more satisfying when they do eventually get that training done.
Right now we're using 3 + next level for ticks required. So 4 to get from 0 to 1, reset, 5 for level 2, reset, 6 for level 3, etc. Once they have the ticks they can train for 1 week + Cr1000 per tick. I allow half the time and money to be spent sporadically as the player wishes but the last half they must take "time off" with some sort of instructor and do it in a single stretch.
Two players have leveled up to 2 in a skill each. It seems to be working as it scratches the itch for skill advancement but only the skills they actually use are advancing and it takes some time and commitment. Not every session allows for using skills a PC may want to improve so that makes it all the more satisfying when they do eventually get that training done.
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